A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » General
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old June 3rd 04, 01:00 AM
Pete
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?


"GRL" wrote in message
...
I'm surprised that your friend could find a new Trek for $220.have never
seen a new one for anything approaching that price. Good for him?

By any chance was the Costco bike one of those quasi-mountain bike
monstrosities with un-needed suspension front and back and the Trek a
hard-tail/fixed fork model? If yes, I can see why he might prefer the

former
for road use. I would, too.


Yes, it was a 'full susp' Mongoose.
The new one is a 2004 Trek 820, I think
http://montgomerycyclery.com/site/sh...=39&Category=0
$219

And yes, he rides it off road as well as paved trails. Nothing intense, but
not strictly road use.

Pete


Ads
  #102  
Old June 3rd 04, 01:01 AM
Pete
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?


"GRL" wrote in message
...
Sorry, but that's the way my mail client, Outlook Express works. I

apologize
for the inconvenience to you.

Damn that Bill Gates!


err...I use OE too. One mouse click before you start typing fixes the
problem.

Pete


  #103  
Old June 3rd 04, 01:02 AM
Warren Block
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?

GRL wrote:
Sorry, but that's the way my mail client, Outlook Express works. I apologize
for the inconvenience to you.

Damn that Bill Gates!


http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/oe-quotefix/

--
Warren Block * Rapid City, South Dakota * USA
  #104  
Old June 3rd 04, 01:06 AM
Pete
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?


"GRL" wrote

I'll check into your link, but I don't see how a narrower tire can do
anything but lower rolling resistance. Remember all those land speed

record
jet and rocket cars? They all ride very hard very narrow tires to...lower
rolling resistance in search of maximum speed. Cars that are sold into the
high mpg market all have narrow tires made with hard (lots of silica and
less carbon black) compounds to minimize rolling resistance. Dragster

front
tires which do nothing but steer and apply no power are always very narrow
to minimize rolling (and air) resistance. The analogies are compelling.


Aerodynamics. The operational regimes are very different. A 300 mph dragster
or 600 mph jet car has different needs than does a 12 mph cyclist.
At recreational cyclist speeds, that is a non issue.

Pete


  #105  
Old June 3rd 04, 03:50 AM
Claire Petersky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?

"GRL" wrote in message
...
Sorry, but that's the way my mail client, Outlook Express works. I

apologize
for the inconvenience to you.


It does not work that way. Here, I am using Outlook Express, and I seem to
have no problem. Further, I believe your apology to be insincere.

Only people who are unfamiliar with the conventions of usenet top-post. It's
sort of like riding against traffic. When you see someone do it, you think,
"Oh god, that twit doesn't know any better, poor thing."

--
Warm Regards,

Claire Petersky
Please replace earthlink for mouse-potato and .net for .com
Home of the meditative cyclist:
http://home.earthlink.net/~cpetersky/Welcome.htm
See the books I've set free at: http://bookcrossing.com/referral/Cpetersky


  #106  
Old June 3rd 04, 01:34 PM
Rick Onanian
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?

On Wed, 2 Jun 2004 19:43:48 -0400, "GRL"
wrote:
240 lb. Actually I had the spokes fixed at two different shops. Same result
both times. My bike has no suspension. My guess is that if you put your 1.5"
tire on your back wheel and pump it up to 90 psi you'll start breaking
spokes.


In the spirit of Carl Fogel, I may just do this. Carl has decided to
prove that a cheap department-store bike can be a reasonable ride;
he posts his ride reports once in awhile, and I'm amazed that he
does so well.

I think I will mount the 1.5" semi-slicks. I will inflate to 90 psi.
I will ride hard on rough surfaces. I will report back. I'll miss
riding my road bike while I do it...

standard gage with double-wall rims. Thicker gage spokes (maybe 36 spokes)
on a custom rim would very possibly hold up better, but I am not about to


It is my understanding that thicker spokes are not necessarily
better; butted spokes, which are thinner in the middle, are more
likely to bend elastically in the middle (which can take the bending
better) than straight spokes, which will bend at their weakest
points (the threaded end and the elbow).

buy a wheel that costs as much as my whole bike cost when I can solve the
problem with a tire change and a little less air pressure. (I could also


I don't think your problem is solved this way; I think you'll see
the same problems, in time.

lose weight, but while the mind is willing "the flesh is weak".)


I did that once. Found out I was miserable at the lower weight, put
it back on, felt better physically and mentally.

I'll check into your link, but I don't see how a narrower tire can do
anything but lower rolling resistance. Remember all those land speed record


Rolling resistance comes from the tire casing deforming to provide
the contact patch. At the same pressure and load, you will have the
same size contact patch regardless of tire width. A narrower tire
must deform more of it's casing to provide that contact patch.

jet and rocket cars? They all ride very hard very narrow tires to...lower
rolling resistance in search of maximum speed. Cars that are sold into the


Very hard to lower RR. Very narrow for weight, aerodynamics, and
because they must be narrow to hold that pressure.

high mpg market all have narrow tires made with hard (lots of silica and
less carbon black) compounds to minimize rolling resistance. Dragster front


Automotive tires may be subject to different dynamics; for example,
they have radial, tubeless, non-slick tires, with a rectangular
contact patch (due to the tire's width and shape).

tires which do nothing but steer and apply no power are always very narrow
to minimize rolling (and air) resistance. The analogies are compelling.


The analogies are not relevant. When you've got a motor, rolling
resistance is a very small issue; and at the speed of a motorized
vehicle, aerodynamic drag remains a very big issue.
--
Rick Onanian
  #107  
Old June 3rd 04, 01:41 PM
David Kerber
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?

In article ,
says...
240 lb. Actually I had the spokes fixed at two different shops. Same result
both times. My bike has no suspension. My guess is that if you put your 1.5"
tire on your back wheel and pump it up to 90 psi you'll start breaking
spokes. If I keep the 2.00" tire on the back at 75 psi I never break spokes,
either. Same 1.4" tire on the front at 85 psi never breaks spokes either.
These are not expensive wheels, but they are not junk and they are 32 spoke
standard gage with double-wall rims. Thicker gage spokes (maybe 36 spokes)
on a custom rim would very possibly hold up better, but I am not about to
buy a wheel that costs as much as my whole bike cost when I can solve the
problem with a tire change and a little less air pressure. (I could also
lose weight, but while the mind is willing "the flesh is weak".)

I'll check into your link, but I don't see how a narrower tire can do
anything but lower rolling resistance. Remember all those land speed record
jet and rocket cars? They all ride very hard very narrow tires to...lower


And the tires are usually at over 200 psi. The narrow tires also reduce
air resistance, which is a major concern at 700mph. The key point to
remember is that a narrower tire *at the same pressure* has a higher RR.
If you can raise the pressure enough to give you a smaller contact
patch, you can come out ahead with the narrower tire.


rolling resistance in search of maximum speed. Cars that are sold into the
high mpg market all have narrow tires made with hard (lots of silica and
less carbon black) compounds to minimize rolling resistance. Dragster front


Again, they also raise the pressure in the tires.

tires which do nothing but steer and apply no power are always very narrow
to minimize rolling (and air) resistance. The analogies are compelling.


But still not great, because there are other design criteria involved
than just rolling resistance.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).
  #108  
Old June 4th 04, 01:20 AM
Mike Kruger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?

"GRL" wrote in message
...
I'm surprised that your friend could find a new Trek for $220.have never
seen a new one for anything approaching that price. Good for him?


From today's paper:

Trek Navigator 100 Comfort Bike $199
Trek Navigator 50 Comfort Bike $199
Trek 800 Mountain Bike $199
Specialized Hardrock at the same price.

Small print says: Limited sizes, excludes 2004 models, sale ends June 9.
This is from a large bike shop (who else would be taking out a full-page ad,
even in The Onion?). I have little direct experience with this shop -- I've
been in there, but always left without buying anything.


  #109  
Old June 4th 04, 01:38 AM
Mike Kruger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?

"GRL" wrote in message
...
240 lb. Actually I had the spokes fixed at two different shops. Same

result
both times. My bike has no suspension.


I went through a summer in which I kept breaking spokes. Three different
wheels were fixed or replaced by 4 bike shops in 3 states (since the spoke
breakage occurred on tour).

I was about ready to head to Lickton's and special order a wheel with 48
spokes or some such, but the owner of my regular shop ordered in a moderate
priced wheel, paid a bit more attention to it than usual, and I've not
broken a spoke in the 2 years since. I'm nearly 220, unfortuntely, and
this is an old road bike ridden in the potholed midwestern US.

Bike shops primarily sell wheels out of stock, so they don't necessarily get
a lot of wheel building experience. This whole stress-relief schtick Jobst
writes about takes time, and it's time that most recreational riders don't
need and don't want to pay for. However, for us larger guys this stuff is
vital.


  #110  
Old June 4th 04, 07:36 AM
Mike Jacoubowsky
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bike Stores Endangerd Because of Super Chain Stores?

Tires act as shock absorbers. If you over-inflate a tire (especially a
narrow tire) you have less shock absorbing ability from the tire (it is

less
flexible) so when you hit a bump more of the shock goes to the spokes. I
ride a rail trail that has several bumpy bridges and I am not a
light-weight. I started breaking spokes when I put on a 1.4" tire and
over-inflated about 10 psi (to about 90 psi). Had the wheel repaired and
tensioned by a bike mechanic. Broken spokes continued. Replaced the wheel
with a new wheel. Same problem. Finally went back to a 2" tire inflated to
75 psi and no more broken spokes. May some day put the 1.4" back on and

try
it at 75 psi. For now I run a 1.4" in front and a 2" in back. Front at 85
psi and back at 75 psi. Works fine.

Seems pretty cut and dry to me.


But not to me. By your logic, my customers with road bikes running anything
under 35c tires (the equivalent of your 1.4) ought to be breaking loads of
spokes. And those customers running 23c tires at 120 psi... those bikes
ought to be breaking spokes just by looking at them.

But they don't. And, I daresay, if I did sell a bike that broke spokes
because somebody put a 1.4" tire on it and inflated it to 90 psi, and I
didn't find any hacksaw marks on the spokes... I'd consider it defective and
take care of it.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
buying my first road bike Tanya Quinn General 28 June 17th 10 10:42 AM
True Cost of a Supermarket Bike Elisa Francesca Roselli General 41 January 25th 04 05:18 AM
Secure Bike Parking.? M. Barbee General 14 January 6th 04 03:00 AM
How old were you when you got your first really nice bike? Brink General 43 November 13th 03 11:49 AM
my new bike Marian Rosenberg General 5 October 19th 03 03:00 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.