3000 miles in 10 months... so Why am I still fat?

I don't want to sound harsh, but something is evidently wrong with your
diet. You're burning calories by doing your cardio, so you must be consuming
more calories than you burn. Have you tried incorporating strength training?
You'll burn more calories with more muscle.

Nonsense on not eating enough. You need to eat less. i suggest you use
fitday.com to track everything you eat. Limit calories to about 2200 per
day. You may want to try low-carb if you have problems with
hunger/appetite.

If you're not tracking calories everyday, then you can't be sure you're not
eating much more than you think you are. Riding will no doubt increase your
appetite, especially when you do 50 to 70 miles. My guess is that you're
probably overeating mostly on weekends.

You may want to make all your rides be about the same distance, just to
normalize the appetite they stimulate so you can better control eating.

I suggest you add weight training to your exercise routine.

Doug Cook wrote:
:: The story thus far....
::
:: 12 years ago - single, 6'3", 180lbs., hair, and competing in
:: citizens class triathlons.
::
:: Fast forward to last July... Married, two kids, mortgage, no hair,
:: sedentary, 279lbs.
::
:: Sick of that fat man in the mirror, I bought some XXL cycling
:: clothes, dusted off and tuned up my old Trek, and started riding
:: again. Now 10 months and close to 3000 miles later... I still weigh
:: 274! I mean... come on! 3000 miles for 5 pounds?!
::
:: My fitness level has increased tremendously. I use to struggle on
:: 10 mile rides. Now I do at least 3-4 weekday rides of 15-30 miles
:: each and one weekend ride for 50-70 miles - all solo. My computer
:: puts my average speed for these rides between 16-18mph depending
:: upon the particular ups&downs of the ride. My HRM says my average
:: rate is usually right about 75% of max (although that can vary,
:: usually on the high side, when the ride has climbing). I feel lean
:: and mean while I ride, but when I get home I wonder who that fat guy
:: in the mirror is!
::
:: I don't diet per se, but I do eat sensibly. The days that I've
:: tracked my caloric intake it's usually right between 2500 - 3000.
:: One friend who is a "wellness" expert suggests I'm not eating
:: *ENOUGH*. Although she readily admits she doesn't specialize in
:: athletes ("slovenly couch potato" is how she describes her typical
:: client), she says that with my activity level my BMR is 5300... as
:: she explained it that's the number of calories needed to just
:: maintain my weight! Therefore she thinks my body thinks it's being
:: starved and refuses to let go of the fat. She thinks by eating MORE
:: the body will move away from this starvation reflex and start
:: shedding pounds. She also suggested riding easy first thing in the
:: morning BEFORE breakfast so the body has to switch to fat because
:: the glycogen stores will be low (sound like a recipe for the BONK to
:: me).
::
:: Well, I tried to eat 4000 calories today and about died! I felt
:: horrible, stuffed, tired, etc. I tried riding with just water (no
:: sport drink), and found myself craving sugar after the ride.
::
:: Any experts lurking out there that would like to comment? Are there
:: any coaching services online that could help customize my training
:: to help me lose weight? I can't afford to hire a coach.
::
:: Any thoughts would be appreciated.

You should buy that Atkins book. You don't have to follow it, but you
should understand the principles of it. It will be a very big help in
losing weight. I would suspect if you cut your carb intake to below 100 a
day, you would lose 30 pounds in two or so months with your exercise. That
is a guess, but you being a male and riding a bicycle, you will drop fast
most likely.

If you don't want to get serious about losing weight that much, then try and
cut the carbs back at dinner time at least. No potatoes, pasta, sugar and
drink plenty of water. An example of a good dinner would be fish and salad
with dressing or some kind of meat with green leafy vegetables. If you just
want to really lose weight you can go low carb all the way, you don't have
to watch you fat intake. When people read that, it scares them. I am not
sure why. Your body is a machine that changes every 24 to 48 hours. Lets
say you start eating fats and proteins and cut carbs. Do you know your body
will start burning fat? It does. I used to weigh 250 pounds over 5 years
ago. I got down to 210 for a few years on low carb and then I got down to
183, which is where I am now. My body fat is a little below 15% and I am 38
years old. I plan on losing another 5 pounds over the next two months.

Enjoy,
Curt


"Doug Cook" wrote in message
...
The story thus far....

12 years ago - single, 6'3", 180lbs., hair, and competing in citizens
class
triathlons.

Fast forward to last July... Married, two kids, mortgage, no hair,
sedentary, 279lbs.

Sick of that fat man in the mirror, I bought some XXL cycling clothes,
dusted off and tuned up my old Trek, and started riding again. Now 10
months and close to 3000 miles later... I still weigh 274! I mean... come
on! 3000 miles for 5 pounds?!

My fitness level has increased tremendously. I use to struggle on 10 mile
rides. Now I do at least 3-4 weekday rides of 15-30 miles each and one
weekend ride for 50-70 miles - all solo. My computer puts my average
speed
for these rides between 16-18mph depending upon the particular ups&downs
of
the ride. My HRM says my average rate is usually right about 75% of max
(although that can vary, usually on the high side, when the ride has
climbing). I feel lean and mean while I ride, but when I get home I
wonder
who that fat guy in the mirror is!

I don't diet per se, but I do eat sensibly. The days that I've tracked my
caloric intake it's usually right between 2500 - 3000. One friend who is
a
"wellness" expert suggests I'm not eating *ENOUGH*. Although she readily
admits she doesn't specialize in athletes ("slovenly couch potato" is how
she describes her typical client), she says that with my activity level my
BMR is 5300... as she explained it that's the number of calories needed to
just maintain my weight! Therefore she thinks my body thinks it's being
starved and refuses to let go of the fat. She thinks by eating MORE the
body will move away from this starvation reflex and start shedding pounds.
She also suggested riding easy first thing in the morning BEFORE breakfast
so the body has to switch to fat because the glycogen stores will be low
(sound like a recipe for the BONK to me).

Well, I tried to eat 4000 calories today and about died! I felt horrible,
stuffed, tired, etc. I tried riding with just water (no sport drink), and
found myself craving sugar after the ride.

Any experts lurking out there that would like to comment? Are there any
coaching services online that could help customize my training to help me
lose weight? I can't afford to hire a coach.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Diet - Again, with your body type, a big obsticle is going to be your slow
metabolic rate. Try to avoid simple carbohydrates (refined sugars, white
breads, etc.) DO NOT do the low-carb/high protein fad diets. They are very
unhealthy and any weight loss is temporary. Forget the three big meals a
day
thing and eat smaller meals more often and most importantly, learn to
recognize when you are satisfied, not full! Other than that just try to
eat
a balanced diet and drink lots of water.

I would hardly call low carbohydrate diets a fad. They have been around
since the 50's that I know of. They are just in the news a lot because
people have wised up. A low carb diet is much more than any fad. It
actually works. You would need to at least read the Atkins book to have an
understanding of how it works, but I can tell from your post you know
nothing about it and just call it a fad diet. You also have lots to learn
about low carbohydrate diets. Who do you think you are calling them
unhealthy? Do you know there are diabetics on this diet and now can go off
there medications? Do you know there are plenty of people that have lost
over 100 pounds and they keep it off with their knowledge of low carb?

I suggest you stick to your X armature body building status and no try and
be a Doctor or nutrition.

If I was the original poster, the first thing I would do is cut the carbs.
What is funny, you suggested the same thing, but you just don't like the
works low carb.

Enjoy,
Curt

On Wed, 19 May 2004 06:03:15 -0400, "Roger Zoul"
wrote:

Nonsense on not eating enough. You need to eat less. i suggest you use
fitday.com to track everything you eat. Limit calories to about 2200 per
day. You may want to try low-carb if you have problems with
hunger/appetite.

I agree he's eating too much, but it may be he's getting too much food at
one time, swelling the stomach, or bingeing during lower mileage weeks, b/c
after all if you're not out biking, you tend to be snacking.

It's pretty easy to be way over your caloric estimate due to things like
gulping a half glass of milk right out of the jug three or four times a day
but failing to count it, or grabbing a chunk of cheese and a couple slices
of lunchmeat in between meals, but not counting it. That's why it's
instructive to write down everything for a representative period, IMO.

It may have been debunked but some ppl still may have problems resulting in
keeping the paunch by continuing to eat and snack after dinner until
bedtime.

Finally, the cravings for sugar shouldn't be happening. That's a sure sign
of 'carb addiction', and insulin resistance.

But don't stop with just these suggestions. Get the bible "The Ketogenic
Diet" by Lyle McDonald, and "Protein Power" by Eades and learn the facts
yourself.

-B

Hi Doug,

I can totally sympathize with you, man. BTDT -- still DT.

It's real simple, v. bottom line: you're going to have to focus on the
food end.

I'm in a similar position, gained about 30# after i quit smokes (no big
deal, i bike, right). Gave myself a year of "grace time" then hammered
my ass off for over a year, commuting...great legs, big fat belly and
absolutely no change in weight. :-/

i substituted a lot of garden veggies for my gigantor steaks and buckets
of sushi rice :-) and have gotten pretty good results.

I'm pretty sure it's an age thing. keep riding and count those
calories!

bon chance!

..max
p.s. kudos on the miles

--
the part of
was played by maxwell monningh 8-p

I too am always trying to lose some of those pounds. I have your same body
type. As you get older, it gets harder! (I am 64 yo)

Some general suggestions:

1. Do weight bearing exercises. I do a lot of free weights and machines -
several hours a week. The muscle will make you look and feel better, and
muscle will burn more calories.

2. Your friend is not correct in how many calories you need everyday. I don't
know where she got those figures. Some charts show about 35 calories burned
per mile. If you are riding 100 miles per week, and everything else stays the
same, you might lose a pound per week from exercise. However, the exercise may
make you hungrier and you can easily offset that 3500 calories burned by biking
by increased eating.

3. Eat several small meals per day - nutritious food. Whole grains, fruits,
veggies, lean meats. Small portions, about the size of your fist. IMHO, the
research on Atkins style diets as to long term effects is still not resolved.
However, the South Beach or the Zone diet are much more moderate, while
incorporating some of the Atkins features.

Extensive bicycling can be a factor in developing osteoporosis. Walking,
weight lifting and other weight-bearing activities can help to prevent the
osteo.

Good luck.


http://members.aol.com/foxcondorsrvtns
(Colorado rental condo)

http://members.aol.com/dnvrfox
(Family Web Page)

On Wed, 19 May 2004 11:01:07 GMT, "curt" wrote:

I would hardly call low carbohydrate diets a fad. They have been around
since the 50's that I know of. They are just in the news a lot because
people have wised up. A low carb diet is much more than any fad. It
actually works.

One thing to mention... There's a 'trick' that has to be mastered for many
to adopt a low carb lifestyle. For me it was this:

1. remove all obvious carbs from the house. That's right, if it's got
sugar, pasta, rice, potatoes, bread, cereal in it, put it in a box and give
it to the neighbors.
2. everyone in the family has to be on the diet, b/c if someone brings in a
loaf of bread on day three you're going to eat it.
3. steel yourself for approximately 7 to 10 days to eat only protein. Since
there's nothing else in the house it's pretty easy.
4. pre-prepare several meals ahead of time so that if you're tempted to
cheat or go off the diet (and you will be) you can go to the fridge and
find a baggie filled with chunks of pre-cooked ribeye, or some delicious
pre-fried sausage, or chunks of turkey or ham and pop them in the 'wave to
head off the pangs. When you make your meals, just cook up twice what you
need each time and put half in the baggies/tupperware. In a few days you'll
have a significant reservoir.
5. have several strategies pre-planned for when you get the urge to cheat.
If you just -have- to have sugar, then eat some fruit, but stay away from
apples, they're carb dense. Some examples a drink several glasses of
water, perhaps flavored with a bit of lemon juice. Take a tablespoon of
this http://www.naturalhealthconsult.com/...aphs/flax.html. For many ppl
it will cut the cravings.
6. if you slip and re-glycogenize your liver you may have to start over,
but you can be back in BDK (benign dietary ketosis) in a couple days.
7. You -must- read the book, either atkins or eades so that you understand
the process of how insulin plus carbs adds the nutrients into your fat
cells. Much of the info is not quite true, but the core is true. Ultimately
you lose the weight b/c of cutting calories, but on LC this trick will get
you there and keep you there without feeling deprived and 'when can I quit
this diet'.
8. once you do this diet you must continue with restricted carbs. If you go
off you will gain back all the weight and more and the fat will be nastier.
Some ppl can do it twice but it's far less effective the second or third
time.

After you pass day 10 you'll discover you no longer have any desire to eat
carbs, i.e., chips, pretzels, potatoes, pizza, pasta. For me this was the
benefit of the diet. After this point cutting calories wasn't difficult b/c
my appetite was significantly reduced. I've survived for several days in a
row eating small portions of steak, burger, or turkey twice a day as the
fat came off and actually felt like a million bucks.

I've only known one person who was able to get through the 'induction'
period, as this carb restricting is called without clearing out the house
and getting everyone on the diet. Many people start the induction phase,
but for some reason slip - a party at work, mom brings over cookies, etc.
It may take up to 10 attempts, but keep trying.

As a humorous side note, moms are really funny during induction. Mine kept
trying to give me carb dense meals and asking if it was OK for me to have
it. 'honey, can you eat a bowl of sweet potatoes? How about a slice of
pie?' I'm sure most LC dieters have such tales to add. It's a hoot.

HTH,

-B

On Tue, 18 May 2004 23:00:10 -0600, "Doug Cook"
wrote:
Chest and butt look normal... just a big fat gut in front. I've thought
....
I've read the thread about the fat fraud, but I am fat. I've got this big
inner tube around my middle that interferes with getting into a nice aero
position, puts unnecessary stress on my butt in the saddle (the biggest
reason I don't ride longer), and I'm scared to even think about what I could
do on the climbs if it were gone.

This is an aerobelly. Learn to use it. Get a saddle that works for
your body. Survive the climbs, even though everybody passes you
(including the little kid in the fifty pound recumbent). Fly past
them going down the hill using your gravity-assist. Retain your
speed better on flat land because you have more inertia for the same
frontal area.

Embrace your aerobelly.
--
Rick Onanian

On Tue, 18 May 2004 22:16:03 -0600, "Doug Cook"
wrote:
Fast forward to last July... Married, two kids, mortgage, no hair,
sedentary, 279lbs.

Sick of that fat man in the mirror, I bought some XXL cycling clothes,
dusted off and tuned up my old Trek, and started riding again. Now 10
months and close to 3000 miles later... I still weigh 274! I mean... come
on! 3000 miles for 5 pounds?!

No. 3000 miles for good physical and spiritual health.

My fitness level has increased tremendously. I use to struggle on 10 mile
rides. Now I do at least 3-4 weekday rides of 15-30 miles each and one
weekend ride for 50-70 miles - all solo. My computer puts my average speed
for these rides between 16-18mph depending upon the particular ups&downs of
the ride. My HRM says my average rate is usually right about 75% of max
(although that can vary, usually on the high side, when the ride has
climbing). I feel lean and mean while I ride,

This tells the story well. I wish I was as fast as you. I did that
kind of speed yesterday, for a short group ride...and that's a new
personal record.

but when I get home I wonder who that fat guy in the mirror is!

He's a healthy guy who has fun exercising.

I don't diet per se, but I do eat sensibly. The days that I've tracked my
caloric intake it's usually right between 2500 - 3000. One friend who is a
"wellness" expert suggests I'm not eating *ENOUGH*. Although she readily

I'm younger and smaller than you, and I can barely survive a 3000
calorie day. I'm a bit abnormal for that, I guess.

admits she doesn't specialize in athletes ("slovenly couch potato" is how
she describes her typical client), she says that with my activity level my
BMR is 5300... as she explained it that's the number of calories needed to
just maintain my weight! Therefore she thinks my body thinks it's being

5300 sounds strong; but she could be right. 2500 to 3000 certainly
sounds insufficient; the weight should fly off, except...well, see
what I say at the end regarding optimum weight..

starved and refuses to let go of the fat. She thinks by eating MORE the
body will move away from this starvation reflex and start shedding pounds.

Possible. I've heard such before.

She also suggested riding easy first thing in the morning BEFORE breakfast
so the body has to switch to fat because the glycogen stores will be low
(sound like a recipe for the BONK to me).

Try it, if you can, and figure out how far you can go before
bonking. Do only that much, then gradually raise it up. This will
certainly get your body running well for the rest of your day, too.

You might also try other strategies, such as rides where you are
insufficiently fueled, but not completely starved; this would be
under the heading of "using a little glycogen to burn a lot of fat".

Well, I tried to eat 4000 calories today and about died! I felt horrible,
stuffed, tired, etc. I tried riding with just water (no sport drink), and
found myself craving sugar after the ride.

Sounds like me when below 4000 calories per day.

Any experts lurking out there that would like to comment? Are there any

Just self-proclaimed demi-experts.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

1. CaloriesIn CaloriesOut == NetLoss. This must happen in time,
even given the 'starvation-mode' reaction of saving fat. Try really
counting calories in and out for a week and see what you get; 10
months of insufficient calories should lose more than 4 pounds.

2. Health != weight. You're probably pretty damned healthy from all
that riding, regardless of your weight.

3. Your body may just be programmed for this weight at this age. If
this is your body's preferred weight, who are you to argue with your
body? Listen to your body!

A couple years ago, I dieted and rode (mostly dieted; couldn't ride
while feeling so hungry) some 40 pounds away, putting me at the top
of the recommended weight range. I felt terrible. I don't know if I
was healthy, but I sure didn't feel so until I slowly got most of
those 40 pounds back. I am at my optimum weight, books and charts
and doctors be damned.

Oh, and that said, here's one other thing: See the damned doctors!
Not just your friend; go to a general practitioner to find out if
something is _wrong_ with you, maybe a disease. Let the GP recommend
anybody he thinks you should see.
--
Rick Onanian