Reagent grade ammonia to repel dogs?

David Pintos wrote:
:: Hi. Where can I buy reagent grade ammonia? I sometimes encounter
:: some mean dogs during my wonderful bike ride. I've read somewhere
:: that reagent grade ammonia works best to repel those nasty dogs....
:: Thanks.

Try to find a different place to ride or find a way to rid yourself of the
dogs.

the black rose wrote:
:: Dennis P. Harris wrote:
::: On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 02:15:37 GMT in rec.bicycles.misc, "David
::: Pintos" wrote:
:::
:::
:::: Hi. Where can I buy reagent grade ammonia? I sometimes encounter
:::: some mean dogs during my wonderful bike ride. I've read somewhere
:::: that reagent grade ammonia works best to repel those nasty dogs.
:::
:::
::: Reagent grade is too volatile and too caustic for that. Just get
::: a bottle of regular household cleaning ammonia and put some in a
::: small spray bottle.
::
:: If you're going to be that brutal, use vinegar; I can attest from
:: personal experience that vinegar in the eyes is too painful to
:: ignore, and it's less damaging than ammonia. Better yet, use lemon
:: juice. That way Fido goes home lemon-fresh and you're less likely
:: to have a lawsuit on your hands.
::
:: I'd be careful about the kind of owner who lets their dogs run loose.
:: They can be litigious. Back on the farm, I got between the
:: neighbor's dog and my sheep with a nice big shepherd's crook, and
:: got threatened with a lawsuit if I dared hit their precious dog with
:: my crook. This, in spite of the fact that the dog was on MY
:: property, threatening MY livestock, and under WV law it would have
:: been legal to shoot the dog under those circumstances. I figured I
:: was being generous swinging a crook at it. The owner didn't see it
:: that way.


You should have made some threats of your own! You were in the right and if
it were me, that dog and its owner would have had some issues to deal with,
were I in your situation.

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:28:07 GMT, SuperSlinky
wrote:

Bill Baka said...

Personally I have been bitten by some overly agressive dogs with underly
attendant owners. I don't think I would want to use Ammonia either, but
I do have some Acetic Anhydride that I might try (CH3(COOH)), basically
undiluted Vinegar. Nasty in its own right but I don't think it would be
as damaging as straight Ammonia. I know that just opening the bottle and
catching a whiff will put my nose into pain.

Back to the chemicals, acetic anhydride is another of those things that
falls under the category of Bad Idea. Remember if you are going to use
highly concentrated reagent grade chemicals that some of it may get on
your body and clothes and almost certainly on the bike. I wouldn't want
either of the chemicals mentioned all over my expensive parts. When it
contacts water, such as is always present on your skin or eyes, it will
immediately absorb the water to form acetic acid. This dehydrates the
tissues, probably killing them, plus adds a pure acid to start eating
away at what is left. If anyone wants to use chemicals to fight off
dogs, for the love of Pete, use the ones sold at household strength.
Dogs have sensitive noses and plain grocery store vinegar or ammonia,
even Windex, should be plenty strong enough to ruin a dog's day. Let's
not get into things like oven cleaner, Drano, or bleach, shall we?

If I remember my freshman chemistry correctly, straight acetic acid
(the kind that forms after acetic anhydride reacts with water) will
blister your skin. Fine treatment for plantar's warts, but not as
good as weaker chemicals you buy at drug stores for better control
over what you're blistering.

After you get over your tantrum, Bill, try the household variety
chemicals. They're safer for you. If they don't work well enough,
maybe a sawed-off shotgun with buckshot is the next step, but don't
get caught with it.

(Oh, and 6 M HCl will really whiten your teeth. Don't ask me how I
know.)

Pat

Email address works as is.

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 21:37:19 -0500, Patrick Lamb
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 13:28:07 GMT, SuperSlinky
wrote:

Bill Baka said...

Personally I have been bitten by some overly agressive dogs with
underly
attendant owners. I don't think I would want to use Ammonia either, but
I do have some Acetic Anhydride that I might try (CH3(COOH)), basically
undiluted Vinegar. Nasty in its own right but I don't think it would be
as damaging as straight Ammonia. I know that just opening the bottle
and
catching a whiff will put my nose into pain.

Back to the chemicals, acetic anhydride is another of those things that
falls under the category of Bad Idea. Remember if you are going to use
highly concentrated reagent grade chemicals that some of it may get on
your body and clothes and almost certainly on the bike. I wouldn't want
either of the chemicals mentioned all over my expensive parts. When it
contacts water, such as is always present on your skin or eyes, it will
immediately absorb the water to form acetic acid. This dehydrates the
tissues, probably killing them, plus adds a pure acid to start eating
away at what is left. If anyone wants to use chemicals to fight off
dogs, for the love of Pete, use the ones sold at household strength.
Dogs have sensitive noses and plain grocery store vinegar or ammonia,
even Windex, should be plenty strong enough to ruin a dog's day. Let's
not get into things like oven cleaner, Drano, or bleach, shall we?

If I remember my freshman chemistry correctly, straight acetic acid
(the kind that forms after acetic anhydride reacts with water) will
blister your skin. Fine treatment for plantar's warts, but not as
good as weaker chemicals you buy at drug stores for better control
over what you're blistering.

After you get over your tantrum, Bill, try the household variety
chemicals. They're safer for you. If they don't work well enough,
maybe a sawed-off shotgun with buckshot is the next step, but don't
get caught with it.

(Oh, and 6 M HCl will really whiten your teeth. Don't ask me how I
know.)

Pat

Email address works as is.
I took both high school and college chemistry and know these things to be
true. The industrial strength bleach whitens your teeth really fast but
don't get it on your gums, or anywhere else that might be sensitive. HCl
does not bother me externally since I dunk my hands in it to clean
corrosion
off of old parts (greasy skin is a blessing sometimes). Besides HCl is just
stomach acid, more concentrated. No tantrum, I just ride with some of my
grandchildren and tell them to go on while I take care of the dog. Usually
I wind up petting it, sometimes lifting my bike as a weapon, and once
kicking
the crap out of the dog, getting a canine tooth in the shin in the
process.
The dog did finally give up and go away though.
Bill Baka


--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

"David Pintos" wrote in message

[...]

Halt didn't work well for me when dogs were trying to do some permanent
damage on me (I had no time to directly aim it). I checked out google and
found several posts about people using reagent grade ammonia. Of course, I
will not use it unless there's absolutely no other choices.


Well, what is it about ammonia that makes you think you'll have more
time to "directly" aim it?

There are numerous pepper spray products out there that have different
"coverage" patterns (including some with a 20 foot reach). Maybe you
need something with more spread and range?

But really, the smart thing to do is to detour around that place
especially if you _know_ beforehand that an aggressive dog is there.
Especially consider that an aggressive, unruly dog has masters who are
even more unpleasant.

On 2004-09-20, SuperSlinky wrote:

I know where I can get it, but I have no idea where you can get
it. I don't know that you can buy reagent grade chemicals just because
you want them. I can get them because our company has long-standing
accounts with our vendors. Personally, I wouldn't be caught dead in the
age of terrorism shopping for reagent grade chemicals.

IIRC, sale reagent grade ammonia is restricted, at least partly because it
is commonly used in the illegal production of methamphetamine.

--

-John )

I would be *very* wary of using any sort of chemical that isn't
specifically marketed as an animal repellant. Animal cruelty laws are
getting stronger all the time, don't give them any excuse to go after
you.

I'd suggest a better can of pepper spray -- I've also found Halt next to
useless, but other brands make a broader, more forceful cone of spray
that's easy to aim while riding. Just don't let the can fret through
while bungeed to your front rack....

--
is Joshua Putnam
http://www.phred.org/~josh/
Updated Bicycle Touring Books List:
http://www.phred.org/~josh/bike/tourbooks.html

"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...

Try to find a different place to ride or find a way to rid yourself of the
dogs.

You should be able to ride wherever and whenever you choose. Don't let some
stupid dog - or its even stupider owner - decide where you can ride.
Pepper spray works well on dogs, without doing any permanent harm.

http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/

Dave

Of course, another method of dealing with dogs who are chronic and predictable
problems is to call the animal control officer for your county. Some are
virtually ineffective however others take dogs who chase cyclists extremely
seriously. What do you have to lose? The worse thing is that the guy will do
nothing.

"Raoul Duke" wrote in message ...
"Roger Zoul" wrote in message
...

Try to find a different place to ride or find a way to rid yourself of the
dogs.

You should be able to ride wherever and whenever you choose. Don't let some
stupid dog - or its even stupider owner - decide where you can ride.
Pepper spray works well on dogs, without doing any permanent harm.

http://www.pepper-spray-store.com/

Dave



Pepper spray, or any other weapon, creates a false sense of security.
One is better off avoiding known dicey situations.

In any case, the only way you can really use the stuff is if you are
not moving, or the dog is behind you. It would be quite stupid to
attempt to fire the pepper spray at something in front of you while
you are on a moving bike.

There are all kinds of senarious that are possible, but in most
situations, one is better off by just accelerating past the threat or
avoiding it entirely.