|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#31
|
|||
|
|||
Steel is Real and Carbon is Lighter
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 11:06:37 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/18/2019 1:24 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 9:49:50 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: For ordinary riding? No, most tiny improvements make no noticeable difference. Even though we all know the near-magic power of red paint. What is a "tiny improvement"? The frame on my Emonda probably weighs less than the Columbus steel forks off my last custom racing bike. Those things were suitable for clubbing baby harp seals or home defense. Weight and stiffness do matter when climbing. If we're talking about aero bits, that's harder call -- except that dopes on aero bars riding in packs can result in a massive worsening of your riding experience. Wearing aero shoe covers may keep your feet warmer on chilly mornings, which might make you faster. It all adds up. Stiffness probably does not make a detectable difference, unless the frame is so flexible that things are scraping. Remember the discussion we had about the bike magazine's test of modern stiff CF frames vs. older, heavier steel frames? The test riders gushed about how the stiffness improved their climbing, but the math showed the speed difference was precisely what would be predicted by the weight difference.. Weight matters when climbing. If getting to the top of the hill before your buddy is really, really important, a lighter bike will help by whatever the percent difference in total bike+rider weight. If a 160 pound rider changes his 20 pound bike for an 18 pound bike, he should be about 1% faster up a steep hill. Whoopee! -- - Frank Krygowski Ah, but I don't think we're talking about just a 2 pounds difference in overall bicycle weight. On a long ride with a lot of hills that 1% you quoted could really add up. You know Frank, you really do seem to disparage everyone who does not ride the same way that you do. Different bicyclists have different goals, needs and or wants. Thus they might want the lightest equipment or they might want a lighter bike so they can carry something extra like perhaps more water or electrolyte drinks without having an overall weight gain. That 2 pounds you mentioned could be utilized to carry 3 bottles of water or other beverage. Cheers |
Ads |
#32
|
|||
|
|||
Steel is Real and Carbon is Lighter
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 7:55:18 PM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/18/2019 6:42 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 2:15:46 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 12:46:59 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: Snipped And if someone's not racing? To me, finishing a "training" ride or a recreational ride ten seconds earlier is of no value whatsoever. In fact, if my fenders or handlebar bag make me finish five minutes later, they're still a net benefit. -- - Frank Krygowski That's you Frank. However to a lot of riders who enjoy riding fast and pushing their limits a ten seconds difference is quite rewarding. What is the deal with handlebar bags these days -- and beards or goatees on anyone over 55? Its like a Portland meme. I hope Frank doesn't have a beard. It would be too much. And what goes in a handlebar bag for the usual out and back ride on a sunny day? Slide rule? Shower slippers? I'm going to stop one of those bearded guys and ask him to show me what's in his handlebar bag. It's probably and after-ride kilt or a knit cap. Enquiring minds want to know! OK, I just did an inventory for you. This is from the touring bike, which is what I most often ride on solo recreational rides. First, the bike's parked now, and there are things in the bag that are just stored there now but will be used or worn when riding. That's the cycling cap, riding gloves and eyeglass mirror. There are a couple safety pins, because I ride pretty frequently in regular clothes and have to pin my pants cuffs to keep them out of the chain. There are tools: an old Mafac tool pouch with a few tiny tools, some Mafac some not. There's also a new multitool, so I could probably lose a couple grams of the old tools. There's a tube, a patch kit and tire irons. A tiny bottle from eyedrops that contains maybe 2 ml of oil, and a spare shifter cable. A mini tube of hand cleaner and some paper towels. A micro-flashlight in case I flat at night. A lightweight cable lock. A few snack items: a small bag of raisins, one envelope of sports gel, a few restaurant packs of honey, and a few of mustard because I've had soem trouble with cramps. Oh, and a tea bag in foil because I've come across restaurants that don't carry real tea. There's a pen, and a couple of lawyer Steve Magas's cards with abbreviated versions of our state's bike laws. Those are in case I get stopped by an ignorant cop. Here are the quirkier items: A fabric case from my small binoculars, because it's the perfect size to hold my cell phone, wallet and keys as I ride, and I can easily grab it to take into a restaurant or store. There's a tiny compass and thermometer, zipper-pull size. There's a monocular that I use for wildlife and at least once or twice, for navigation while on tour - as in "Which road is that up ahead?". And there's a take-apart pennywhistle. It's one of the instruments I play. There's a can of Halt clipped to the outside of the bag. All that comes to 2.5 pounds. The bag is pretty large, and it's my own design and build. So is the one on my utility/commuting/shopping bike. But there's one on every bike I own, with the others being pretty standard commercial ones. I find these bags very handy. They carry stuff home from stores, they stash jackets and sweaters and tights and arm warmers when things warm up or may cool down. They have carried library books, take-out sandwiches, rain clothing, maps, guidebooks, cameras, found tools and more. I still remember when a good cycling friend showed up (in his car) to show off his brand new custom framed bike. As we were getting ready to take a ride together, he said "Can you carry my jacket for me?" I guess that's what guys without bags do? Besides greatly restricting the practical use of their bikes, that is. Wow. You should be a bookmobile. My map, camera, pencil, card, passport, etc., etc. are on my iPhone. My rain jacket can go in my jersey pocket, plus I have a Castelli jacket the fits into a little pod the size of a doughnut.. Cliff bar and gel pack and reduced wallet in jersey pocket. Seat pack with tools, tubes, no patches anymore although I might get some no-glue patches. I don't begrudge anyone his or her handlebar bag, but I've never seen the need for weekend riding. If the going gets tough, I go to a 7-11. It's not like I'm riding in Timbuktu. https://www.columbian.com/news/2015/...e-of-portland/ If you take a hard right, you end up at a 7-11 in Sandy. -- Jay Beattie. |
#33
|
|||
|
|||
Steel is Real and Carbon is Lighter
On 6/18/2019 11:14 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 11:06:37 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 6/18/2019 1:24 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 9:49:50 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote: For ordinary riding? No, most tiny improvements make no noticeable difference. Even though we all know the near-magic power of red paint. What is a "tiny improvement"? The frame on my Emonda probably weighs less than the Columbus steel forks off my last custom racing bike. Those things were suitable for clubbing baby harp seals or home defense. Weight and stiffness do matter when climbing. If we're talking about aero bits, that's harder call -- except that dopes on aero bars riding in packs can result in a massive worsening of your riding experience. Wearing aero shoe covers may keep your feet warmer on chilly mornings, which might make you faster. It all adds up. Stiffness probably does not make a detectable difference, unless the frame is so flexible that things are scraping. Remember the discussion we had about the bike magazine's test of modern stiff CF frames vs. older, heavier steel frames? The test riders gushed about how the stiffness improved their climbing, but the math showed the speed difference was precisely what would be predicted by the weight difference. Weight matters when climbing. If getting to the top of the hill before your buddy is really, really important, a lighter bike will help by whatever the percent difference in total bike+rider weight. If a 160 pound rider changes his 20 pound bike for an 18 pound bike, he should be about 1% faster up a steep hill. Whoopee! -- - Frank Krygowski Ah, but I don't think we're talking about just a 2 pounds difference in overall bicycle weight. On a long ride with a lot of hills that 1% you quoted could really add up. Um... it could "really add up" to 1%. No more. Keep in mind, it makes only an extremely negligible difference on level ground (multiply the CRR times that 1%). And on a downhill, the lighter bike+rider is slower, if all else is equal. You know Frank, you really do seem to disparage everyone who does not ride the same way that you do. Different bicyclists have different goals, needs and or wants. Of course they do! I'm not disparaging. I'm discussing these things by stating my opinion. If your opinion is different, feel free to state it and defend it as logically as you can. ISTM this would be a very boring "discussion group" if everyone had precisely the same opinions! Thus they might want the lightest equipment or they might want a lighter bike so they can carry something extra like perhaps more water or electrolyte drinks without having an overall weight gain. That 2 pounds you mentioned could be utilized to carry 3 bottles of water or other beverage. It could, I suppose. I've never had problems carrying enough water, though. And I suspect that if I were going to ride somewhere so hot and remote that carrying water were critical, I'd probably choose ruggedness over lightness. -- - Frank Krygowski |
#34
|
|||
|
|||
Steel is Real and Carbon is Lighter
On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 06:02:04 +0700, John B. Slocomb
wrote: Sure a "reward" in one's imagination. Rather like winning a battle in League Of Legends. I rode an honest quarter century last Friday. I'm still pleased. Who cares that nobody else noticed? The overhanding on the seam down the front of my jersey is quite invisible even though I didn't have matching thread. Machine zig-zagging would have held just as well, but I feel rewarded when I examine it, and also notice that none of the stitches attaching the reinforcement under the end come through to the right side -- and that thread was even less yellow than the overhanding thread, since I chose to match the tape on the back. If someone gets a thrill out of cutting ten seconds off his time, more power to him. -- Joy Beeson joy beeson at comcast dot net http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/ |
#35
|
|||
|
|||
Steel is Real and Carbon is Lighter
On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 11:49:53 PM UTC-4, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 06:02:04 +0700, John B. Slocomb wrote: Sure a "reward" in one's imagination. Rather like winning a battle in League Of Legends. I rode an honest quarter century last Friday. I'm still pleased. Who cares that nobody else noticed? The overhanding on the seam down the front of my jersey is quite invisible even though I didn't have matching thread. Machine zig-zagging would have held just as well, but I feel rewarded when I examine it, and also notice that none of the stitches attaching the reinforcement under the end come through to the right side -- and that thread was even less yellow than the overhanding thread, since I chose to match the tape on the back. If someone gets a thrill out of cutting ten seconds off his time, more power to him. -- Joy Beeson joy beeson at comcast dot net http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/ +100! Cheers |
#36
|
|||
|
|||
Steel is Real and Carbon is Lighter
On 19/06/2019 03.57, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/18/2019 6:42 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 2:15:46 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 12:46:59 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: Snipped And if someone's not racing? To me, finishing a "training" ride or a recreational ride ten seconds earlier is of no value whatsoever. In fact, if my fenders or handlebar bag make me finish five minutes later, they're still a net benefit. -- - Frank Krygowski That's you Frank. However to a lot of riders who enjoy riding fast and pushing their limits a ten seconds difference is quite rewarding. What is the deal with handlebar bags these days -- and beards or goatees on anyone over 55? Its like a Portland meme. I hope Frank doesn't have a beard. It would be too much. Of course I have a beard! What sort of insanity would expect a man to take a sharp instrument to his face at some ungodly hour of the morning? Oooh! Oooh! There is nothing like trying to shave with a cut throat razor with a hangover of biblical, nay, apocalyptic proportions :-( Bring on the Gillette Mach 3 :-) |
#37
|
|||
|
|||
Steel is Real and Carbon is Lighter
On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 09:17:57 +0100, Tosspot
wrote: On 19/06/2019 03.57, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 6/18/2019 6:42 PM, jbeattie wrote: On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 2:15:46 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 12:46:59 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: Snipped And if someone's not racing? To me, finishing a "training" ride or a recreational ride ten seconds earlier is of no value whatsoever. In fact, if my fenders or handlebar bag make me finish five minutes later, they're still a net benefit. -- - Frank Krygowski That's you Frank. However to a lot of riders who enjoy riding fast and pushing their limits a ten seconds difference is quite rewarding. What is the deal with handlebar bags these days -- and beards or goatees on anyone over 55? Its like a Portland meme. I hope Frank doesn't have a beard. It would be too much. Of course I have a beard! What sort of insanity would expect a man to take a sharp instrument to his face at some ungodly hour of the morning? Oooh! Oooh! There is nothing like trying to shave with a cut throat razor with a hangover of biblical, nay, apocalyptic proportions :-( Bring on the Gillette Mach 3 :-) Or the king of all razors the Fusion5 :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#39
|
|||
|
|||
Steel is Real and Carbon is Lighter
Joy Beeson wrote:
On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 06:02:04 +0700, John B. Slocomb wrote: Sure a "reward" in one's imagination. Rather like winning a battle in League Of Legends. I rode an honest quarter century last Friday. I'm still pleased. Who cares that nobody else noticed? The overhanding on the seam down the front of my jersey is quite invisible even though I didn't have matching thread. Machine zig-zagging would have held just as well, but I feel rewarded when I examine it, and also notice that none of the stitches attaching the reinforcement under the end come through to the right side -- and that thread was even less yellow than the overhanding thread, since I chose to match the tape on the back. If someone gets a thrill out of cutting ten seconds off his time, more power to him. I think it’s good to have goals. Keeps you motivated. Everyone’s goals need not be the same. -- duane |
#40
|
|||
|
|||
Steel is Real and Carbon is Lighter
On 19/06/2019 11.46, Duane wrote:
Joy Beeson wrote: On Wed, 19 Jun 2019 06:02:04 +0700, John B. Slocomb wrote: Sure a "reward" in one's imagination. Rather like winning a battle in League Of Legends. I rode an honest quarter century last Friday. I'm still pleased. Who cares that nobody else noticed? The overhanding on the seam down the front of my jersey is quite invisible even though I didn't have matching thread. Machine zig-zagging would have held just as well, but I feel rewarded when I examine it, and also notice that none of the stitches attaching the reinforcement under the end come through to the right side -- and that thread was even less yellow than the overhanding thread, since I chose to match the tape on the back. If someone gets a thrill out of cutting ten seconds off his time, more power to him. I think it’s good to have goals. Keeps you motivated. Everyone’s goals need not be the same. I believe in setting achievable goals. Vomiting through my nose was surprisingly achievable :-) |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Steel is real | Doug Landau | Techniques | 10 | December 28th 16 06:11 PM |
Steel is real - again | Ralph Barone[_3_] | Techniques | 18 | January 5th 16 07:29 AM |
Steel may be real but.... | Andre Jute[_2_] | Techniques | 5 | June 4th 13 03:06 AM |
Steel is Real | Gags | Australia | 12 | August 18th 05 11:57 AM |
Steel is real. A real dick! | [email protected] | Mountain Biking | 0 | February 11th 05 02:53 PM |