Relaxing watch

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:28:33 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/18/2019 3:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 8:23:36 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Like it or not, art (AKA personal taste) influences bicycle design. And
as with modern houses (some built with Victorian, or farmhouse, or Arts
& Crafts era elements) there are people who prefer aesthetic elements
from earlier times. Ditto for cars, clothing, music, furnishings,
landscaping, etc.

O.K., and further to my last, have you lived in a Victorian house? I have. Most of your time is spent trying not to freeze to death and hoping the knob-and-slob wiring doesn't catch fire. Most have ship-lap or barn siding, rotten sash cords, AWOL sash weights, rotting pipe -- asbestos everything. There was no code, so predictions as to stud dimensions and location have to be done with the Victorian home computer: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...zOq4miH18Ke2&s My favorite part are the additions -- typically a bathroom tacked on with a foundation made from rocks or a room made from a sagging, under-built former sun porch.

Perhaps you misread. I said "... as with MODERN houses ... built with
Victorian elements." [Emphasis added.]

We have some of those around here. They are a pleasant contrast to the
modern American suburban lump where the garage door is the dominant
architectural "feature" of the house. Some are built with large,
friendly and picturesque porches, some with turret rooms, and some with
layouts and shapes that distinguish them from big featureless boxes
attached to garages.

I've been in a couple. They were completely modern and comfortable inside.

On a recent vacation on Amelia Island, Florida, I spent time biking
though a (relatively) new neighborhood, perhaps 15 years old. The layout
of the neighborhood was very friendly to pedestrians and cyclists, and
the houses were varied and charming.

It was a world away from this:
https://marketplace.canva.com/MAC_v0...AC_v0m28b8.jpg
or this:
https://live.staticflickr.com/6028/5...baa5ffb0_b.jpg

Ah but... Both houses in your references are blatant exhibits of their
owner's financial status... a two car garage.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 18:59:21 -0500, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:28:33 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/18/2019 3:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 8:23:36 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Like it or not, art (AKA personal taste) influences bicycle design. And
as with modern houses (some built with Victorian, or farmhouse, or Arts
& Crafts era elements) there are people who prefer aesthetic elements
from earlier times. Ditto for cars, clothing, music, furnishings,
landscaping, etc.

O.K., and further to my last, have you lived in a Victorian house?
I have. Most of your time is spent trying not to freeze to death
and hoping the knob-and-slob wiring doesn't catch fire. Most have
ship-lap or barn siding, rotten sash cords, AWOL sash weights,
rotting pipe -- asbestos everything. There was no code, so
predictions as to stud dimensions and location have to be done with
the Victorian home computer:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...zOq4miH18Ke2&s
My favorite part are the additions -- typically a bathroom tacked
on with a foundation made from rocks or a room made from a sagging,
under-built former sun porch.

Perhaps you misread. I said "... as with MODERN houses ... built with
Victorian elements." [Emphasis added.]

We have some of those around here. They are a pleasant contrast to the
modern American suburban lump where the garage door is the dominant
architectural "feature" of the house. Some are built with large,
friendly and picturesque porches, some with turret rooms, and some with
layouts and shapes that distinguish them from big featureless boxes
attached to garages.

I've been in a couple. They were completely modern and comfortable inside.

On a recent vacation on Amelia Island, Florida, I spent time biking
though a (relatively) new neighborhood, perhaps 15 years old. The layout
of the neighborhood was very friendly to pedestrians and cyclists, and
the houses were varied and charming.

It was a world away from this:
https://marketplace.canva.com/MAC_v0...AC_v0m28b8.jpg
or this:
https://live.staticflickr.com/6028/5...baa5ffb0_b.jpg

The original poster must not be very familiar with buildings :-) Both
my grand parents lived in houses built some years ago. My maternal
grand parents's house was built in the 1700's and had non of the
shortcomings mentioned.

By the way, there is noting inherently wrong with "knob and tube"
wiring.... after all it is still used in external electrical systems.
see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQNQKkvGQL0
for examples of this type of wiring.

As for "ship-lap" siding, more correctly called "clapboard"? Well, it
might be a bit archaic but it certainly looks better than aluminum
siding :-) And, as I said, my grandparents lived in a 280 year old
clapboard house and no rain was leaking through the walls.


Shiplap is not the same as clapboard -- shiplap is rabbeted, clapboard
is tapered from bottom to top. Way back in the day clapboards were
rived (split) from trees, nowadays both are sawn.

Did they use shiplap siding for house siding in Victorian Times? I
grew up in upstate New England and I can't remember ever seeing any...
which is not an assertion that it didn't exist :-)

Shiplap tends to be thicker, which is good if you already have it, less
good if you're buying it. Modern buildings that use either also have
sheathing underneath, either 1x stock for older houses, or plywood or
OSB for newer. 1700s houses in what's now the US typically just had the
siding, which was drafty by any modern standard.

Seriously, though, buildings, like other human constructions, turn to
**** without maintenance. A McMansion is more than likely to be a
little sad in a century or more.
--
cheers,

John B.

John B. writes:

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 18:59:21 -0500, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:28:33 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/18/2019 3:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 8:23:36 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Like it or not, art (AKA personal taste) influences bicycle design. And
as with modern houses (some built with Victorian, or farmhouse, or Arts
& Crafts era elements) there are people who prefer aesthetic elements
from earlier times. Ditto for cars, clothing, music, furnishings,
landscaping, etc.

O.K., and further to my last, have you lived in a Victorian house?
I have. Most of your time is spent trying not to freeze to death
and hoping the knob-and-slob wiring doesn't catch fire. Most have
ship-lap or barn siding, rotten sash cords, AWOL sash weights,
rotting pipe -- asbestos everything. There was no code, so
predictions as to stud dimensions and location have to be done with
the Victorian home computer:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...zOq4miH18Ke2&s
My favorite part are the additions -- typically a bathroom tacked
on with a foundation made from rocks or a room made from a sagging,
under-built former sun porch.

Perhaps you misread. I said "... as with MODERN houses ... built with
Victorian elements." [Emphasis added.]

We have some of those around here. They are a pleasant contrast to the
modern American suburban lump where the garage door is the dominant
architectural "feature" of the house. Some are built with large,
friendly and picturesque porches, some with turret rooms, and some with
layouts and shapes that distinguish them from big featureless boxes
attached to garages.

I've been in a couple. They were completely modern and comfortable inside.

On a recent vacation on Amelia Island, Florida, I spent time biking
though a (relatively) new neighborhood, perhaps 15 years old. The layout
of the neighborhood was very friendly to pedestrians and cyclists, and
the houses were varied and charming.

It was a world away from this:
https://marketplace.canva.com/MAC_v0...AC_v0m28b8.jpg
or this:
https://live.staticflickr.com/6028/5...baa5ffb0_b.jpg

The original poster must not be very familiar with buildings :-) Both
my grand parents lived in houses built some years ago. My maternal
grand parents's house was built in the 1700's and had non of the
shortcomings mentioned.

By the way, there is noting inherently wrong with "knob and tube"
wiring.... after all it is still used in external electrical systems.
see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQNQKkvGQL0
for examples of this type of wiring.

As for "ship-lap" siding, more correctly called "clapboard"? Well, it
might be a bit archaic but it certainly looks better than aluminum
siding :-) And, as I said, my grandparents lived in a 280 year old
clapboard house and no rain was leaking through the walls.


Shiplap is not the same as clapboard -- shiplap is rabbeted, clapboard
is tapered from bottom to top. Way back in the day clapboards were
rived (split) from trees, nowadays both are sawn.

Did they use shiplap siding for house siding in Victorian Times? I
grew up in upstate New England and I can't remember ever seeing any...
which is not an assertion that it didn't exist :-)

I don't know. The Victorian houses I can think of are clapboard (or
brick or stone). Lots of them are covered with vinyl these days.

One Victorian material that is a huge improvement over its successors is
the slate roof. In my vicinity there are many of these well over one
hundred years old, and just as good as new.

On 12/19/2019 11:17 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
The Victorian houses I can think of are clapboard (or
brick or stone). Lots of them are covered with vinyl these days.

I know a guy who moved to North Carolina and built his own house. He
bucked the trends in siding, and used wood clapboard siding.

A couple years later, Hurrican Hugo devastated wide areas including his
vicinity. His was the only house around that wasn't stripped of its siding.

One Victorian material that is a huge improvement over its successors is
the slate roof. In my vicinity there are many of these well over one
hundred years old, and just as good as new.

There's a trend in our area to install metal roofs with raised seams.
They're claimed to last forever, but it's too early to say whether
that's true or not.

--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/19/2019 10:17 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
John B. writes:

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 18:59:21 -0500, Radey Shouman
wrote:

John B. writes:

On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:28:33 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/18/2019 3:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 8:23:36 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Like it or not, art (AKA personal taste) influences bicycle design. And
as with modern houses (some built with Victorian, or farmhouse, or Arts
& Crafts era elements) there are people who prefer aesthetic elements
from earlier times. Ditto for cars, clothing, music, furnishings,
landscaping, etc.

O.K., and further to my last, have you lived in a Victorian house?
I have. Most of your time is spent trying not to freeze to death
and hoping the knob-and-slob wiring doesn't catch fire. Most have
ship-lap or barn siding, rotten sash cords, AWOL sash weights,
rotting pipe -- asbestos everything. There was no code, so
predictions as to stud dimensions and location have to be done with
the Victorian home computer:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...zOq4miH18Ke2&s
My favorite part are the additions -- typically a bathroom tacked
on with a foundation made from rocks or a room made from a sagging,
under-built former sun porch.

Perhaps you misread. I said "... as with MODERN houses ... built with
Victorian elements." [Emphasis added.]

We have some of those around here. They are a pleasant contrast to the
modern American suburban lump where the garage door is the dominant
architectural "feature" of the house. Some are built with large,
friendly and picturesque porches, some with turret rooms, and some with
layouts and shapes that distinguish them from big featureless boxes
attached to garages.

I've been in a couple. They were completely modern and comfortable inside.

On a recent vacation on Amelia Island, Florida, I spent time biking
though a (relatively) new neighborhood, perhaps 15 years old. The layout
of the neighborhood was very friendly to pedestrians and cyclists, and
the houses were varied and charming.

It was a world away from this:
https://marketplace.canva.com/MAC_v0...AC_v0m28b8.jpg
or this:
https://live.staticflickr.com/6028/5...baa5ffb0_b.jpg

The original poster must not be very familiar with buildings :-) Both
my grand parents lived in houses built some years ago. My maternal
grand parents's house was built in the 1700's and had non of the
shortcomings mentioned.

By the way, there is noting inherently wrong with "knob and tube"
wiring.... after all it is still used in external electrical systems.
see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQNQKkvGQL0
for examples of this type of wiring.

As for "ship-lap" siding, more correctly called "clapboard"? Well, it
might be a bit archaic but it certainly looks better than aluminum
siding :-) And, as I said, my grandparents lived in a 280 year old
clapboard house and no rain was leaking through the walls.


Shiplap is not the same as clapboard -- shiplap is rabbeted, clapboard
is tapered from bottom to top. Way back in the day clapboards were
rived (split) from trees, nowadays both are sawn.

Did they use shiplap siding for house siding in Victorian Times? I
grew up in upstate New England and I can't remember ever seeing any...
which is not an assertion that it didn't exist :-)

I don't know. The Victorian houses I can think of are clapboard (or
brick or stone). Lots of them are covered with vinyl these days.

One Victorian material that is a huge improvement over its successors is
the slate roof. In my vicinity there are many of these well over one
hundred years old, and just as good as new.


and maple floors. mmmm, nice.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 3:31:23 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:28:33 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/18/2019 3:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 8:23:36 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Like it or not, art (AKA personal taste) influences bicycle design. And
as with modern houses (some built with Victorian, or farmhouse, or Arts
& Crafts era elements) there are people who prefer aesthetic elements
from earlier times. Ditto for cars, clothing, music, furnishings,
landscaping, etc.

O.K., and further to my last, have you lived in a Victorian house? I have. Most of your time is spent trying not to freeze to death and hoping the knob-and-slob wiring doesn't catch fire. Most have ship-lap or barn siding, rotten sash cords, AWOL sash weights, rotting pipe -- asbestos everything. There was no code, so predictions as to stud dimensions and location have to be done with the Victorian home computer: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...zOq4miH18Ke2&s My favorite part are the additions -- typically a bathroom tacked on with a foundation made from rocks or a room made from a sagging, under-built former sun porch.

Perhaps you misread. I said "... as with MODERN houses ... built with
Victorian elements." [Emphasis added.]

We have some of those around here. They are a pleasant contrast to the
modern American suburban lump where the garage door is the dominant
architectural "feature" of the house. Some are built with large,
friendly and picturesque porches, some with turret rooms, and some with
layouts and shapes that distinguish them from big featureless boxes
attached to garages.

I've been in a couple. They were completely modern and comfortable inside.

On a recent vacation on Amelia Island, Florida, I spent time biking
though a (relatively) new neighborhood, perhaps 15 years old. The layout
of the neighborhood was very friendly to pedestrians and cyclists, and
the houses were varied and charming.

It was a world away from this:
https://marketplace.canva.com/MAC_v0...AC_v0m28b8.jpg
or this:
https://live.staticflickr.com/6028/5...baa5ffb0_b.jpg

The original poster must not be very familiar with buildings :-) Both
my grand parents lived in houses built some years ago. My maternal
grand parents's house was built in the 1700's and had non of the
shortcomings mentioned.

I've lived in turn-of-the-century homes with shiplap or board siding with no sheeting and no wall insulation. They were drafty and expensive to heat. I was the king of sash weight retrieval and reinstallation and replacing endless stops and moldings.

By the way, there is noting inherently wrong with "knob and tube"
wiring.... after all it is still used in external electrical systems.
see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQNQKkvGQL0
for examples of this type of wiring.

A pristine knob and tube system is fine. They are NEVER pristine and often covered in blown-in insulation, which is a total no-no. A lot of older homes had low capacity systems, a small number of circuits and an outlet or two per room handling a zillion modern devices. Fire hazards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cU5wAhSWGU&t=6s A lot of insurers will not write a house with knob and tube.

-- Jay Beattie.

On 12/19/2019 11:52 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/19/2019 11:17 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
The Victorian houses I can think of are clapboard (or
brick or stone). Lots of them are covered with vinyl
these days.

I know a guy who moved to North Carolina and built his own
house. He bucked the trends in siding, and used wood
clapboard siding.

A couple years later, Hurrican Hugo devastated wide areas
including his vicinity. His was the only house around that
wasn't stripped of its siding.

One Victorian material that is a huge improvement over its
successors is
the slate roof. In my vicinity there are many of these
well over one
hundred years old, and just as good as new.

There's a trend in our area to install metal roofs with
raised seams. They're claimed to last forever, but it's too
early to say whether that's true or not.


I added a pitched steel one over a crappy flat roof on a
garage in 1994 which has been tight and dry since.
Girlfriend has a 1999 steel roof on her farmhouse but as you
say that's not forever yet. Since prices have dropped so
much they're popular and I've never heard a complaint,
unlike asphalt shingles (You might get as much as 12 years
on a '20-year' asphalt roof but you might not)

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 12/19/2019 1:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 3:31:23 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:28:33 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/18/2019 3:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 8:23:36 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Like it or not, art (AKA personal taste) influences bicycle design. And
as with modern houses (some built with Victorian, or farmhouse, or Arts
& Crafts era elements) there are people who prefer aesthetic elements
from earlier times. Ditto for cars, clothing, music, furnishings,
landscaping, etc.

O.K., and further to my last, have you lived in a Victorian house? I have. Most of your time is spent trying not to freeze to death and hoping the knob-and-slob wiring doesn't catch fire. Most have ship-lap or barn siding, rotten sash cords, AWOL sash weights, rotting pipe -- asbestos everything. There was no code, so predictions as to stud dimensions and location have to be done with the Victorian home computer: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...zOq4miH18Ke2&s My favorite part are the additions -- typically a bathroom tacked on with a foundation made from rocks or a room made from a sagging, under-built former sun porch.

Perhaps you misread. I said "... as with MODERN houses ... built with
Victorian elements." [Emphasis added.]

We have some of those around here. They are a pleasant contrast to the
modern American suburban lump where the garage door is the dominant
architectural "feature" of the house. Some are built with large,
friendly and picturesque porches, some with turret rooms, and some with
layouts and shapes that distinguish them from big featureless boxes
attached to garages.

I've been in a couple. They were completely modern and comfortable inside.

On a recent vacation on Amelia Island, Florida, I spent time biking
though a (relatively) new neighborhood, perhaps 15 years old. The layout
of the neighborhood was very friendly to pedestrians and cyclists, and
the houses were varied and charming.

It was a world away from this:
https://marketplace.canva.com/MAC_v0...AC_v0m28b8.jpg
or this:
https://live.staticflickr.com/6028/5...baa5ffb0_b.jpg

The original poster must not be very familiar with buildings :-) Both
my grand parents lived in houses built some years ago. My maternal
grand parents's house was built in the 1700's and had non of the
shortcomings mentioned.

I've lived in turn-of-the-century homes with shiplap or board siding with no sheeting and no wall insulation. They were drafty and expensive to heat. I was the king of sash weight retrieval and reinstallation and replacing endless stops and moldings.

By the way, there is noting inherently wrong with "knob and tube"
wiring.... after all it is still used in external electrical systems.
see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQNQKkvGQL0
for examples of this type of wiring.

A pristine knob and tube system is fine. They are NEVER pristine and often covered in blown-in insulation, which is a total no-no. A lot of older homes had low capacity systems, a small number of circuits and an outlet or two per room handling a zillion modern devices. Fire hazards. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cU5wAhSWGU&t=6s A lot of insurers will not write a house with knob and tube.

Of course, I was not saying an unmodernized Victorian house is some sort
of ideal. I was saying there are people who prefer some of the design
elements of Victorian (or other period) architecture.

And to bring this back to context: Coast Cycles isn't selling Victorian
era bikes with period hardware. He isn't selling replica boneshakers.
He's selling custom bikes, built as his customers desire; and his
customers seem to prefer some classic appearance elements and features.
That should be OK.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On 12/19/2019 12:33 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/19/2019 1:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 3:31:23 PM UTC-8, John
B. wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:28:33 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/18/2019 3:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 8:23:36 AM UTC-8,
Frank Krygowski wrote:

Like it or not, art (AKA personal taste) influences
bicycle design. And
as with modern houses (some built with Victorian, or
farmhouse, or Arts
& Crafts era elements) there are people who prefer
aesthetic elements
from earlier times. Ditto for cars, clothing, music,
furnishings,
landscaping, etc.

O.K., and further to my last, have you lived in a
Victorian house? I have. Most of your time is spent
trying not to freeze to death and hoping the
knob-and-slob wiring doesn't catch fire. Most have
ship-lap or barn siding, rotten sash cords, AWOL sash
weights, rotting pipe -- asbestos everything. There was
no code, so predictions as to stud dimensions and
location have to be done with the Victorian home
computer:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...zOq4miH18Ke2&s
My favorite part are the additions -- typically a
bathroom tacked on with a foundation made from rocks or
a room made from a sagging, under-built former sun porch.

Perhaps you misread. I said "... as with MODERN houses
... built with
Victorian elements." [Emphasis added.]

We have some of those around here. They are a pleasant
contrast to the
modern American suburban lump where the garage door is
the dominant
architectural "feature" of the house. Some are built
with large,
friendly and picturesque porches, some with turret
rooms, and some with
layouts and shapes that distinguish them from big
featureless boxes
attached to garages.

I've been in a couple. They were completely modern and
comfortable inside.

On a recent vacation on Amelia Island, Florida, I spent
time biking
though a (relatively) new neighborhood, perhaps 15 years
old. The layout
of the neighborhood was very friendly to pedestrians and
cyclists, and
the houses were varied and charming.

It was a world away from this:
https://marketplace.canva.com/MAC_v0...AC_v0m28b8.jpg

or this:
https://live.staticflickr.com/6028/5...baa5ffb0_b.jpg


The original poster must not be very familiar with
buildings :-) Both
my grand parents lived in houses built some years ago. My
maternal
grand parents's house was built in the 1700's and had non
of the
shortcomings mentioned.

I've lived in turn-of-the-century homes with shiplap or
board siding with no sheeting and no wall insulation.
They were drafty and expensive to heat. I was the king of
sash weight retrieval and reinstallation and replacing
endless stops and moldings.

By the way, there is noting inherently wrong with "knob
and tube"
wiring.... after all it is still used in external
electrical systems.
see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQNQKkvGQL0
for examples of this type of wiring.

A pristine knob and tube system is fine. They are NEVER
pristine and often covered in blown-in insulation, which
is a total no-no. A lot of older homes had low capacity
systems, a small number of circuits and an outlet or two
per room handling a zillion modern devices. Fire hazards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cU5wAhSWGU&t=6s A lot of
insurers will not write a house with knob and tube.

Of course, I was not saying an unmodernized Victorian house
is some sort of ideal. I was saying there are people who
prefer some of the design elements of Victorian (or other
period) architecture.

And to bring this back to context: Coast Cycles isn't
selling Victorian era bikes with period hardware. He isn't
selling replica boneshakers. He's selling custom bikes,
built as his customers desire; and his customers seem to
prefer some classic appearance elements and features. That
should be OK.



Yep, as is Craig Calfee, for a different sort of customer.
World's a big place and both styles support their respective
builders.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Thursday, December 19, 2019 at 7:33:27 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/19/2019 1:00 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 3:31:23 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 18 Dec 2019 17:28:33 -0500, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 12/18/2019 3:41 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Wednesday, December 18, 2019 at 8:23:36 AM UTC-8, Frank Krygowski wrote:

Like it or not, art (AKA personal taste) influences bicycle design. And
as with modern houses (some built with Victorian, or farmhouse, or Arts
& Crafts era elements) there are people who prefer aesthetic elements
from earlier times. Ditto for cars, clothing, music, furnishings,
landscaping, etc.

O.K., and further to my last, have you lived in a Victorian house? I have. Most of your time is spent trying not to freeze to death and hoping the knob-and-slob wiring doesn't catch fire. Most have ship-lap or barn siding, rotten sash cords, AWOL sash weights, rotting pipe -- asbestos everything. There was no code, so predictions as to stud dimensions and location have to be done with the Victorian home computer: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...zOq4miH18Ke2&s My favorite part are the additions -- typically a bathroom tacked on with a foundation made from rocks or a room made from a sagging, under-built former sun porch.

Perhaps you misread. I said "... as with MODERN houses ... built with
Victorian elements." [Emphasis added.]

We have some of those around here. They are a pleasant contrast to the
modern American suburban lump where the garage door is the dominant
architectural "feature" of the house. Some are built with large,
friendly and picturesque porches, some with turret rooms, and some with
layouts and shapes that distinguish them from big featureless boxes
attached to garages.

I've been in a couple. They were completely modern and comfortable inside.

On a recent vacation on Amelia Island, Florida, I spent time biking
though a (relatively) new neighborhood, perhaps 15 years old. The layout
of the neighborhood was very friendly to pedestrians and cyclists, and
the houses were varied and charming.

It was a world away from this:
https://marketplace.canva.com/MAC_v0...AC_v0m28b8.jpg
or this:
https://live.staticflickr.com/6028/5...baa5ffb0_b.jpg

The original poster must not be very familiar with buildings :-) Both
my grand parents lived in houses built some years ago. My maternal
grand parents's house was built in the 1700's and had non of the
shortcomings mentioned.

I've lived in turn-of-the-century homes with shiplap or board siding with no sheeting and no wall insulation. They were drafty and expensive to heat. I was the king of sash weight retrieval and reinstallation and replacing endless stops and moldings.

By the way, there is noting inherently wrong with "knob and tube"
wiring.... after all it is still used in external electrical systems.
see
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQNQKkvGQL0
for examples of this type of wiring.

A pristine knob and tube system is fine. They are NEVER pristine and often covered in blown-in insulation, which is a total no-no. A lot of older homes had low capacity systems, a small number of circuits and an outlet or two per room handling a zillion modern devices. Fire hazards. https://www..youtube.com/watch?v=7cU5wAhSWGU&t=6s A lot of insurers will not write a house with knob and tube.

Of course, I was not saying an unmodernized Victorian house is some sort
of ideal. I was saying there are people who prefer some of the design
elements of Victorian (or other period) architecture.

And to bring this back to context: Coast Cycles isn't selling Victorian
era bikes with period hardware. He isn't selling replica boneshakers.
He's selling custom bikes, built as his customers desire; and his
customers seem to prefer some classic appearance elements and features.
That should be OK.


--
- Frank Krygowski

Of course, it is what it is. We just ridicule it as you ridicule anything beyond , ehhh... fill in the dots.

Lou