semi-Horizontal forward facing dropout questions

Hi all,

I've been having repeated problems with bent axles on my cheap mountain
bike but the rear triangle alignment seems fine so now I'm wondering
about the actual dropout width.

I've purchased a new wheel with allegedly a 10mm axle (freewheel hub) and
when I slide it in to the dropouts there appears to be a good mm play
either side of the axle. I suppose I wouldn't have thought this amount of
play might have been an issue before, especially after tightening the
wheel nuts down, but I'm having so many bent axles I can't rule out it
being a possibility.

So is this play normal??

The paint is worn off in the dropouts so maybe that is making some
difference but I'm not convinced.

Either way, is there an effective, at least semi-permanent, method to
build up the surface of the dropout for a snugger fit with the axle?

Thanks

Keiron wrote:
I've been having repeated problems with bent axles on my cheap
mountain bike but the rear triangle alignment seems fine so now
I'm wondering about the actual dropout width.

I've purchased a new wheel with allegedly a 10mm axle (freewheel
hub)

I'm afraid the only real cure would be moving to a cassette hub,
thus getting rid of the unsupported axle.

http://yarchive.net/bike/axle_break.html


So is this play normal??

Shouldn't be a problem, the free slot in front might be an issue.
You could add steel washers to stabilize the axle there.


--
MfG/Best regards
helmut springer panta rhei

On Jun 8, 12:45*pm, Keiron wrote:
Hi all,

I've been having repeated problems with bent axles on my cheap mountain
bike but the rear triangle alignment seems fine so now I'm wondering
about the actual dropout width.

I've purchased a new wheel with allegedly a 10mm axle (freewheel hub) and
when I slide it in to the dropouts there appears to be a good mm play
either side of the axle. I suppose I wouldn't have thought this amount of
play might have been an issue before, especially after tightening the
wheel nuts down, but I'm having so many bent axles I can't rule out it
being a possibility.

So is this play normal??

The paint is worn off in the dropouts so maybe that is making some
difference but I'm not convinced.

Either way, is there an effective, at least semi-permanent, method to
build up the surface of the dropout for a snugger fit with the axle?

Thanks

I wouldn't let those points concern me. Use a regular ring-spanner,
oil the axle-threads and use your whole weight to tighten the wheel-
nuts. Don't unnecessarily remove the wheel, fix you punctures where
they lie.

On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 11:53:35 +0000, Helmut Springer wrote:

Keiron wrote:
I've been having repeated problems with bent axles on my cheap mountain
bike but the rear triangle alignment seems fine so now I'm wondering
about the actual dropout width.

I've purchased a new wheel with allegedly a 10mm axle (freewheel hub)

I'm afraid the only real cure would be moving to a cassette hub, thus
getting rid of the unsupported axle.

http://yarchive.net/bike/axle_break.html


So is this play normal??

Shouldn't be a problem, the free slot in front might be an issue. You
could add steel washers to stabilize the axle there.

Hi Helmut,

Thanks for your reply.

As you say, no doubt a cassette hub is superior in this sense, and is
middle to long-term desirable, but this current spate of axle breakage is
uncommonly frequent, in my experience that is, so I can't help thinking
that this is occurring due to some setup/wear issue rather than a pure
and simple question of technology; I've rode many thousands of miles on a
single feewheel axle before but the last couple axles survived about 5
miles a piece. I am however looking at moving to a cassette hub replacing
the quick release with a 10 x 1m axle but I still want an interim measure.

Would you please elobrate on where you think I might add the washers? I
don't quite follow.


Thanks

On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 06:16:16 -0700, thirty-six wrote:

On Jun 8, 12:45Â*pm, Keiron wrote:
Hi all,

I've been having repeated problems with bent axles on my cheap mountain
bike but the rear triangle alignment seems fine so now I'm wondering
about the actual dropout width.

I've purchased a new wheel with allegedly a 10mm axle (freewheel hub)
and when I slide it in to the dropouts there appears to be a good mm
play either side of the axle. I suppose I wouldn't have thought this
amount of play might have been an issue before, especially after
tightening the wheel nuts down, but I'm having so many bent axles I
can't rule out it being a possibility.

So is this play normal??

The paint is worn off in the dropouts so maybe that is making some
difference but I'm not convinced.

Either way, is there an effective, at least semi-permanent, method to
build up the surface of the dropout for a snugger fit with the axle?

Thanks

I wouldn't let those points concern me. Use a regular ring-spanner, oil
the axle-threads and use your whole weight to tighten the wheel- nuts.
Don't unnecessarily remove the wheel, fix you punctures where they lie.

I hear you; oil and weight are my common procedure and it's not as if I
don't have enough at 120KGs. Maybe I've not been as aggressive with the
tightening as I should but i'm still hoping for something extra to combat
this 2 dead axles in 10miles. The axle prior to this lasted at least a
1000miles.

Thanks

On Jun 8, 2:26*pm, Keiron wrote:
On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 06:16:16 -0700, thirty-six wrote:
On Jun 8, 12:45*pm, Keiron wrote:
Hi all,

I've been having repeated problems with bent axles on my cheap mountain
bike but the rear triangle alignment seems fine so now I'm wondering
about the actual dropout width.

I've purchased a new wheel with allegedly a 10mm axle (freewheel hub)
and when I slide it in to the dropouts there appears to be a good mm
play either side of the axle. I suppose I wouldn't have thought this
amount of play might have been an issue before, especially after
tightening the wheel nuts down, but I'm having so many bent axles I
can't rule out it being a possibility.

So is this play normal??

The paint is worn off in the dropouts so maybe that is making some
difference but I'm not convinced.

Either way, is there an effective, at least semi-permanent, method to
build up the surface of the dropout for a snugger fit with the axle?

Thanks

I wouldn't let those points concern me. *Use a regular ring-spanner, oil
the axle-threads and use your whole weight to tighten the wheel- nuts.
Don't unnecessarily remove the wheel, fix you punctures where they lie.

I hear you; oil and weight are my common procedure and it's not as if I
don't have enough at 120KGs. Maybe I've not been as aggressive with the
tightening as I should but i'm still hoping for something extra to combat
this 2 dead axles in 10miles. The axle prior to this lasted at least a
1000miles.

Thanks

Only 10 miles, seems like they are too soft. If you used an 8" long
spanner to lift your body-weight off the ground I think you might
strip the threads. Make sure you use proper deep axle-nuts and if the
threads then strip it's sure guarantee that the axle is too soft.

On Jun 8, 2:51*pm, thirty-six wrote:
On Jun 8, 2:26*pm, Keiron wrote:









On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 06:16:16 -0700, thirty-six wrote:
On Jun 8, 12:45*pm, Keiron wrote:
Hi all,

I've been having repeated problems with bent axles on my cheap mountain
bike but the rear triangle alignment seems fine so now I'm wondering
about the actual dropout width.

I've purchased a new wheel with allegedly a 10mm axle (freewheel hub)
and when I slide it in to the dropouts there appears to be a good mm
play either side of the axle. I suppose I wouldn't have thought this
amount of play might have been an issue before, especially after
tightening the wheel nuts down, but I'm having so many bent axles I
can't rule out it being a possibility.

So is this play normal??

The paint is worn off in the dropouts so maybe that is making some
difference but I'm not convinced.

Either way, is there an effective, at least semi-permanent, method to
build up the surface of the dropout for a snugger fit with the axle?

Thanks

I wouldn't let those points concern me. *Use a regular ring-spanner, oil
the axle-threads and use your whole weight to tighten the wheel- nuts..
Don't unnecessarily remove the wheel, fix you punctures where they lie.

I hear you; oil and weight are my common procedure and it's not as if I
don't have enough at 120KGs. Maybe I've not been as aggressive with the
tightening as I should but i'm still hoping for something extra to combat
this 2 dead axles in 10miles. The axle prior to this lasted at least a
1000miles.

Thanks

Only 10 miles, seems like they are too soft. *If you used an 8" long
spanner to lift your body-weight off the ground I think you might
strip the threads. *Make sure you use proper deep axle-nuts and if the
threads then strip it's sure guarantee that the axle is too soft.

I wonder also about the frame-ends, whether they are thin and flexing
excessively. Check for a broken braze or weld around the frame-end.
You might just want to bolt up a bent axle so as it sticks out from
the frame and stress the frame-end by leaning on the 'axle', with your
other hand around the joints to feel for movement.

On Jun 8, 8:26*am, Keiron wrote:
On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 06:16:16 -0700, thirty-six wrote:
On Jun 8, 12:45*pm, Keiron wrote:
Hi all,

I've been having repeated problems with bent axles on my cheap mountain
bike but the rear triangle alignment seems fine so now I'm wondering
about the actual dropout width.

I've purchased a new wheel with allegedly a 10mm axle (freewheel hub)
and when I slide it in to the dropouts there appears to be a good mm
play either side of the axle. I suppose I wouldn't have thought this
amount of play might have been an issue before, especially after
tightening the wheel nuts down, but I'm having so many bent axles I
can't rule out it being a possibility.

So is this play normal??

The paint is worn off in the dropouts so maybe that is making some
difference but I'm not convinced.

Either way, is there an effective, at least semi-permanent, method to
build up the surface of the dropout for a snugger fit with the axle?

Thanks

I wouldn't let those points concern me. *Use a regular ring-spanner, oil
the axle-threads and use your whole weight to tighten the wheel- nuts.
Don't unnecessarily remove the wheel, fix you punctures where they lie.

I hear you; oil and weight are my common procedure and it's not as if I
don't have enough at 120KGs. Maybe I've not been as aggressive with the
tightening as I should but i'm still hoping for something extra to combat
this 2 dead axles in 10miles. The axle prior to this lasted at least a
1000miles.

Thanks

Have you checked the dropout alignment? That's a quick way to destroy
axles. It's pretty quick and dirty to fix on a steel frame, even if
you don't have the correct tool.

On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 07:28:25 -0700, landotter wrote:

On Jun 8, 8:26Â*am, Keiron wrote:
On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 06:16:16 -0700, thirty-six wrote:
On Jun 8, 12:45Â*pm, Keiron wrote:
Hi all,

I've been having repeated problems with bent axles on my cheap
mountain bike but the rear triangle alignment seems fine so now I'm
wondering about the actual dropout width.

I've purchased a new wheel with allegedly a 10mm axle (freewheel
hub) and when I slide it in to the dropouts there appears to be a
good mm play either side of the axle. I suppose I wouldn't have
thought this amount of play might have been an issue before,
especially after tightening the wheel nuts down, but I'm having so
many bent axles I can't rule out it being a possibility.

So is this play normal??

The paint is worn off in the dropouts so maybe that is making some
difference but I'm not convinced.

Either way, is there an effective, at least semi-permanent, method
to build up the surface of the dropout for a snugger fit with the
axle?

Thanks

I wouldn't let those points concern me. Â*Use a regular ring-spanner,
oil the axle-threads and use your whole weight to tighten the wheel-
nuts. Don't unnecessarily remove the wheel, fix you punctures where
they lie.

I hear you; oil and weight are my common procedure and it's not as if I
don't have enough at 120KGs. Maybe I've not been as aggressive with the
tightening as I should but i'm still hoping for something extra to
combat this 2 dead axles in 10miles. The axle prior to this lasted at
least a 1000miles.

Thanks

Have you checked the dropout alignment? That's a quick way to destroy
axles. It's pretty quick and dirty to fix on a steel frame, even if you
don't have the correct tool.

I have checked before using the string method and was reasonably certain
but I think I'll check again. I did however remove the derailleur to find
that the lower tine of the dropout on the drive-side was not aligned with
the upper part of the drop out. I straightened it using a method similar
to which I'm sure you had in mind for re-aligning the rear triangle (i.e.
a massive lever?) in this case a wrench.

Is it likely that this dropout is now highly compromised?

Also, on putting the wheel back in to the dropout it seemed to fit a
little better but there was still 1 or 1.5mm of up and down play between
each prong of the dropout. I'm still not clear if this kind of play is
acceptable? Should I 'squash' the lower part of the dropout up to meet
the upper part by a small amount?

On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 07:03:02 -0700, thirty-six wrote:

On Jun 8, 2:51Â*pm, thirty-six wrote:
On Jun 8, 2:26Â*pm, Keiron wrote:









On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 06:16:16 -0700, thirty-six wrote:
On Jun 8, 12:45Â*pm, Keiron wrote:
Hi all,

I've been having repeated problems with bent axles on my cheap
mountain bike but the rear triangle alignment seems fine so now
I'm wondering about the actual dropout width.

I've purchased a new wheel with allegedly a 10mm axle (freewheel
hub) and when I slide it in to the dropouts there appears to be a
good mm play either side of the axle. I suppose I wouldn't have
thought this amount of play might have been an issue before,
especially after tightening the wheel nuts down, but I'm having so
many bent axles I can't rule out it being a possibility.

So is this play normal??

The paint is worn off in the dropouts so maybe that is making some
difference but I'm not convinced.

Either way, is there an effective, at least semi-permanent, method
to build up the surface of the dropout for a snugger fit with the
axle?

Thanks

I wouldn't let those points concern me. Â*Use a regular
ring-spanner, oil the axle-threads and use your whole weight to
tighten the wheel- nuts. Don't unnecessarily remove the wheel, fix
you punctures where they lie.

I hear you; oil and weight are my common procedure and it's not as if
I don't have enough at 120KGs. Maybe I've not been as aggressive with
the tightening as I should but i'm still hoping for something extra
to combat this 2 dead axles in 10miles. The axle prior to this lasted
at least a 1000miles.

Thanks

Only 10 miles, seems like they are too soft. Â*If you used an 8" long
spanner to lift your body-weight off the ground I think you might strip
the threads. Â*Make sure you use proper deep axle-nuts and if the
threads then strip it's sure guarantee that the axle is too soft.

I wonder also about the frame-ends, whether they are thin and flexing
excessively. Check for a broken braze or weld around the frame-end. You
might just want to bolt up a bent axle so as it sticks out from the
frame and stress the frame-end by leaning on the 'axle', with your other
hand around the joints to feel for movement.

No obvious failures but will examine in better light later and test it as
you say. Really not looking forward to finding an issue of this kind
'tho'! I'm sold on deeper axle nuts tho; are these produced custom or are
they a standard hardware store buy?