Olympic Time Trial

I_am_cycle_pathic wrote:
NO! Reaming or drilling parts is not needed (or in many caes wise)
when bicycles are already at the legal low limit for sanctioned
road racing.

Of course it is, since shaving weight beyong the limit allows to
then distribute the weight needed to meet the limit where it has the
least effect!

Is there already some forum discussing where to put that weight?
Maybe even depending on the course? There has to be!

--
MfG/Best regards
helmut springer panta rhei

DirtRoadie wrote:

But when choosing components, if one concludes that 10 grams or 20
grams makes no difference, then pretty soon there can be a lb or two
in those accumulated instances of insignificant grams.

I've never met anyone who did not understand that mass differences are
cumulative.

But with only the rarest exceptions, it's been only here that I've met
people who claim nothing is negligible - that a few grams difference can
be expected to affect the outcome of a race, or even a "spirited club ride."

Frank's friend (that's what kills me) drilled out a seatpost bolt!
Apparently the folks in Ohio ARE complete idiots.

That's an example of the kind of language that would get a guy punched
out in a bar, even if you were too cowardly to tell the bar patrons your
real name.

I think looking a calculations based on percentage between placings of
some arbitrarily chosen race is silly.
The depth of the field and quality of the field (either way) skew
those figures dramatically.

Try instead looking at the potential benefit that any one rider can
achieve by, for example, shedding a pound or two and then see what
that means, if you MUST analyze.

You're reluctant to analyze anything in a "tech" discussion group? Hmm.
Maybe you belong in rec.bicycles.fashion instead?

First that rider will be faster. A
few tenths in a sprint, a few seconds on a climb, might mean nothing,
might mean 10 places and might be the difference between winning a
race and not. Even in a spirited club ride, everyone knows who won the
climb or the sprint. It's not as if you are drinking beer latter with
the other and asking "Hey does anybody know who got to the top first?"
No it's usually enthusiastic friendly trash talk and/or mutual
support.

OK, I've held off telling this, but: I still recall the first time I
showed up for a training ride with the fast guys in my club. It was
many, many years ago.

Yes, I was nervous. I did take the rack, fenders and handlebar bag off
my commuting bike, but I was still running 1 1/4" clinchers on Weinmann
A-124 rims (remember those?) and low-end SunTour stuff. There were
about a dozen guys, all looking very fit, all younger than me. Most if
not all were running tubulars, Campy, and real cleated shoes with their
toe clips, etc. I knew only one of them pretty well (he was 18 and the
son of good friends) but barely knew any of the others, who were very
busy comparing and discussing each others' expensive components.

The guy who organized the ride was nice enough to come over to me and
welcome me. But he also said "On these rides, we don't stop for
anything or anyone, so you can find your way back, right?" IOW, you'll
never hang with us, but thanks for showing up.

It wasn't a long ride, just 20 miles or so, out and back on a quiet
rolling highway. I was damned sure to stay with the group right from
the start, but not to push hard enough to blow up. (That was also when
I noticed the Campy in front of me hunting for the gears my SunTour was
hitting nicely.) Anyway, we cranked along nicely, and I was riding
carefully, but eventually I was amazed to see gaps behind me on some of
the rises. I was feeling good, pleased that there were no gaps in front
of me.

Turn around was in a plaza parking lot. Some guys may have expected a
few minutes rest, I don't know. But three other guys I happened to be
near said "Let's go!" and were quickly out of the lot. I jumped with
them, and saw the others take off maybe 75 feet back. I figured they'd
be back up with us soon.

They weren't. The 18-year-old was the ringleader (supposedly, 2nd
fastest in the club at that time) and he kept pushing. We pulled away
from everyone else. Three of us were rotating, but the young guy
wouldn't let anyone else pull; he stayed at the front.

To my surprise, first one then a second guy fell off on small climbs. I
tried again to pull, even riding up alongside him, but the young guy
would have none of it. So I rode his wheel in to the end of the ride.
We two finished well ahead of the next two, and far ahead of the rest of
the group. I was feeling elated that I not only survived, I did really
well.

The young guy was pretty effusive, congratulating me on the ride. (I
was still saying I felt bad that he wouldn't let me take a pull.) The
guy who organized the ride came up to me and congratulated me too.

The rest of the dozen? No enthusiastic friendly trash talk or support.
Not one said anything to me. They were mostly looking kind of sullen,
and still talking quietly among themselves about their choice of
shifters, their rims, their tires.

Nobody seemed interested in my A-124s.

BTW, that 18-year-old was the same guy who (on a different ride) told me
he could, in a sprint, feel the difference in weight from his aluminum
cogs. Maybe that's why I didn't finish ahead of him?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Aug 3, 1:06*pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
DirtRoadie wrote:

But when choosing components, if one concludes that 10 grams or 20
grams makes no difference, then pretty soon there can be a lb or two
in those accumulated instances of insignificant grams.

I've never met anyone who did not understand that mass differences are
cumulative.

VERY good. Then what makes you think anyone here is saying something
different, aside from your pathological need to put words into their
mouths?

But with only the rarest exceptions, it's been only here that I've met
people who claim nothing is negligible - that a few grams difference can
be expected to affect the outcome of a race, or even a "spirited club ride."

But it is here that you misread what is said. Please link to where
anyone has said "a few grams difference can
be expected to affect the outcome of a race, or even a 'spirited club
ride.' " You have a penchant for taking things out of context.

Frank's friend (that's what kills me) drilled out a seatpost bolt!
Apparently the folks in Ohio ARE complete idiots.

That's an example of the kind of language that would get a guy punched
out in a bar, even if you were too cowardly to tell the bar patrons your
real name.

That is funny!
Frank- your "friend," your story, your implication. Sorry, if YOU
think I drew the wrong conclusion.
Deal with it!
If you don't want your friends (All your friends) to be thought of as
idiots, then don't describe them that way.
I expect they would punch you out if they knew you were using them as
bad examples without them knowing it.


I think looking a calculations based on percentage between placings of
some arbitrarily chosen race is silly.
The depth of the field and quality of the field (either way) skew
those figures dramatically.

Try instead looking at the potential benefit that any one rider can
achieve by, for example, shedding a pound or two and then see what
that means, if you MUST analyze.

You're reluctant to analyze anything in a "tech" discussion group? *Hmm..
* Maybe you belong in rec.bicycles.fashion instead?

We all enjoy that YOU think you aren't smarmy!
BTW I WAS discussing - you are just being a troll.


* First that rider will be faster. A

few tenths in a sprint, a few seconds on a climb, might mean nothing,
might mean 10 places and might be the difference between winning a
race and not. Even in a spirited club ride, everyone knows who won the
climb or the sprint. It's not as if you are drinking beer latter with
the other and asking "Hey does anybody know who got to the top first?"
No it's usually enthusiastic friendly trash talk and/or mutual
support.

OK, I've held off telling this,

[snip]
TLDR
Thanks but no thanks. Your anecdotes have little to do with "tech"
and are so, "anecdotal."

DR

On 08/03/2012 03:45 PM, DirtRoadie wrote:
On Aug 3, 1:06 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
DirtRoadie wrote:

But when choosing components, if one concludes that 10 grams or 20
grams makes no difference, then pretty soon there can be a lb or two
in those accumulated instances of insignificant grams.

I've never met anyone who did not understand that mass differences are
cumulative.

VERY good. Then what makes you think anyone here is saying something
different, aside from your pathological need to put words into their
mouths?

But with only the rarest exceptions, it's been only here that I've met
people who claim nothing is negligible - that a few grams difference can
be expected to affect the outcome of a race, or even a "spirited club ride."

But it is here that you misread what is said. Please link to where
anyone has said "a few grams difference can
be expected to affect the outcome of a race, or even a 'spirited club
ride.' " You have a penchant for taking things out of context.

Frank's friend (that's what kills me) drilled out a seatpost bolt!
Apparently the folks in Ohio ARE complete idiots.

That's an example of the kind of language that would get a guy punched
out in a bar, even if you were too cowardly to tell the bar patrons your
real name.

That is funny!
Frank- your "friend," your story, your implication. Sorry, if YOU
think I drew the wrong conclusion.
Deal with it!
If you don't want your friends (All your friends) to be thought of as
idiots, then don't describe them that way.
I expect they would punch you out if they knew you were using them as
bad examples without them knowing it.


I think looking a calculations based on percentage between placings of
some arbitrarily chosen race is silly.
The depth of the field and quality of the field (either way) skew
those figures dramatically.

Try instead looking at the potential benefit that any one rider can
achieve by, for example, shedding a pound or two and then see what
that means, if you MUST analyze.

You're reluctant to analyze anything in a "tech" discussion group? Hmm.
Maybe you belong in rec.bicycles.fashion instead?

We all enjoy that YOU think you aren't smarmy!
BTW I WAS discussing - you are just being a troll.


First that rider will be faster. A

few tenths in a sprint, a few seconds on a climb, might mean nothing,
might mean 10 places and might be the difference between winning a
race and not. Even in a spirited club ride, everyone knows who won the
climb or the sprint. It's not as if you are drinking beer latter with
the other and asking "Hey does anybody know who got to the top first?"
No it's usually enthusiastic friendly trash talk and/or mutual
support.

OK, I've held off telling this,

[snip]
TLDR
Thanks but no thanks. Your anecdotes have little to do with "tech"
and are so, "anecdotal."

If they exist. Maybe it was Fred.

On Friday, August 3, 2012 3:06:18 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote:
DirtRoadie wrote:



But when choosing components, if one concludes that 10 grams or 20

grams makes no difference, then pretty soon there can be a lb or two

in those accumulated instances of insignificant grams.



I've never met anyone who did not understand that mass differences are

cumulative.



But with only the rarest exceptions, it's been only here that I've met

people who claim nothing is negligible - that a few grams difference can

be expected to affect the outcome of a race, or even a "spirited club ride."



Frank's friend (that's what kills me) drilled out a seatpost bolt!

Apparently the folks in Ohio ARE complete idiots.



That's an example of the kind of language that would get a guy punched

out in a bar, even if you were too cowardly to tell the bar patrons your

real name.



I think looking a calculations based on percentage between placings of

some arbitrarily chosen race is silly.

The depth of the field and quality of the field (either way) skew

those figures dramatically.



Try instead looking at the potential benefit that any one rider can

achieve by, for example, shedding a pound or two and then see what

that means, if you MUST analyze.



You're reluctant to analyze anything in a "tech" discussion group? Hmm.

Maybe you belong in rec.bicycles.fashion instead?



First that rider will be faster. A

few tenths in a sprint, a few seconds on a climb, might mean nothing,

might mean 10 places and might be the difference between winning a

race and not. Even in a spirited club ride, everyone knows who won the

climb or the sprint. It's not as if you are drinking beer latter with

the other and asking "Hey does anybody know who got to the top first?"

No it's usually enthusiastic friendly trash talk and/or mutual

support.



OK, I've held off telling this, but: I still recall the first time I

showed up for a training ride with the fast guys in my club. It was

many, many years ago.



Yes, I was nervous. I did take the rack, fenders and handlebar bag off

my commuting bike, but I was still running 1 1/4" clinchers on Weinmann

A-124 rims (remember those?) and low-end SunTour stuff. There were

about a dozen guys, all looking very fit, all younger than me. Most if

not all were running tubulars, Campy, and real cleated shoes with their

toe clips, etc. I knew only one of them pretty well (he was 18 and the

son of good friends) but barely knew any of the others, who were very

busy comparing and discussing each others' expensive components.



The guy who organized the ride was nice enough to come over to me and

welcome me. But he also said "On these rides, we don't stop for

anything or anyone, so you can find your way back, right?" IOW, you'll

never hang with us, but thanks for showing up.



It wasn't a long ride, just 20 miles or so, out and back on a quiet

rolling highway. I was damned sure to stay with the group right from

the start, but not to push hard enough to blow up. (That was also when

I noticed the Campy in front of me hunting for the gears my SunTour was

hitting nicely.) Anyway, we cranked along nicely, and I was riding

carefully, but eventually I was amazed to see gaps behind me on some of

the rises. I was feeling good, pleased that there were no gaps in front

of me.



Turn around was in a plaza parking lot. Some guys may have expected a

few minutes rest, I don't know. But three other guys I happened to be

near said "Let's go!" and were quickly out of the lot. I jumped with

them, and saw the others take off maybe 75 feet back. I figured they'd

be back up with us soon.



They weren't. The 18-year-old was the ringleader (supposedly, 2nd

fastest in the club at that time) and he kept pushing. We pulled away

from everyone else. Three of us were rotating, but the young guy

wouldn't let anyone else pull; he stayed at the front.



To my surprise, first one then a second guy fell off on small climbs. I

tried again to pull, even riding up alongside him, but the young guy

would have none of it. So I rode his wheel in to the end of the ride.

We two finished well ahead of the next two, and far ahead of the rest of

the group. I was feeling elated that I not only survived, I did really

well.



The young guy was pretty effusive, congratulating me on the ride. (I

was still saying I felt bad that he wouldn't let me take a pull.) The

guy who organized the ride came up to me and congratulated me too.



The rest of the dozen? No enthusiastic friendly trash talk or support.

Not one said anything to me. They were mostly looking kind of sullen,

and still talking quietly among themselves about their choice of

shifters, their rims, their tires.



Nobody seemed interested in my A-124s.



BTW, that 18-year-old was the same guy who (on a different ride) told me

he could, in a sprint, feel the difference in weight from his aluminum

cogs. Maybe that's why I didn't finish ahead of him?



--

- Frank Krygowski

Just curious Frank; but since you're so much better and/or faster than the others you rode/ride with, what category racer were you when/if you retired?

Cheers

On Aug 3, 1:53*pm, Duane wrote:
On 08/03/2012 03:45 PM, DirtRoadie wrote:









On Aug 3, 1:06 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
DirtRoadie wrote:

But when choosing components, if one concludes that 10 grams or 20
grams makes no difference, then pretty soon there can be a lb or two
in those accumulated instances of insignificant grams.

I've never met anyone who did not understand that mass differences are
cumulative.

VERY good. Then what makes you think anyone here is saying something
different, aside from your pathological need to put words into their
mouths?

But with only the rarest exceptions, it's been only here that I've met
people who claim nothing is negligible - that a few grams difference can
be expected to affect the outcome of a race, or even a "spirited club ride."

But it is here that you misread what is said. Please link to where
anyone has said "a few grams difference can
be expected to affect the outcome of a race, or even a 'spirited club
ride.' " You have a penchant for taking things out of context.

Frank's friend (that's what kills me) drilled out a seatpost bolt!
Apparently the folks in Ohio ARE complete idiots.

That's an example of the kind of language that would get a guy punched
out in a bar, even if you were too cowardly to tell the bar patrons your
real name.

That is funny!
Frank- your "friend," your story, your implication. Sorry, if YOU
think I drew the wrong conclusion.
Deal with it!
If you don't want your friends (All your friends) to be thought of as
idiots, then don't describe them that way.
I expect they *would punch you out if they knew you were using them as
bad examples without them knowing it.

I think looking a calculations based on percentage between placings of
some arbitrarily chosen race is silly.
The depth of the field and quality of the field (either way) skew
those figures dramatically.

Try instead looking at the potential benefit that any one rider can
achieve by, for example, shedding a pound or two and then see what
that means, if you MUST analyze.

You're reluctant to analyze anything in a "tech" discussion group? *Hmm.
* *Maybe you belong in rec.bicycles.fashion instead?

We all enjoy that YOU think you aren't smarmy!
BTW I WAS discussing - you are just being a troll.

* First that rider will be faster. A

few tenths in a sprint, a few seconds on a climb, might mean nothing,
might mean 10 places and might be the difference between winning a
race and not. Even in a spirited club ride, everyone knows who won the
climb or the sprint. It's not as if you are drinking beer latter with
the other and asking "Hey does anybody know who got to the top first?"
No it's usually enthusiastic friendly trash talk and/or mutual
support.

OK, I've held off telling this,

[snip]
TLDR
Thanks but no thanks. Your anecdotes have little to do with "tech"
and are so, "anecdotal."

If they exist. *Maybe it was Fred.

If there were no Fred, it would have been necessary for Frank to
invent him.
DR

On 08/03/2012 04:03 PM, DirtRoadie wrote:
On Aug 3, 1:53 pm, Duane wrote:
On 08/03/2012 03:45 PM, DirtRoadie wrote:









On Aug 3, 1:06 pm, Frank Krygowski wrote:
DirtRoadie wrote:

But when choosing components, if one concludes that 10 grams or 20
grams makes no difference, then pretty soon there can be a lb or two
in those accumulated instances of insignificant grams.

I've never met anyone who did not understand that mass differences are
cumulative.

VERY good. Then what makes you think anyone here is saying something
different, aside from your pathological need to put words into their
mouths?

But with only the rarest exceptions, it's been only here that I've met
people who claim nothing is negligible - that a few grams difference can
be expected to affect the outcome of a race, or even a "spirited club ride."

But it is here that you misread what is said. Please link to where
anyone has said "a few grams difference can
be expected to affect the outcome of a race, or even a 'spirited club
ride.' " You have a penchant for taking things out of context.

Frank's friend (that's what kills me) drilled out a seatpost bolt!
Apparently the folks in Ohio ARE complete idiots.

That's an example of the kind of language that would get a guy punched
out in a bar, even if you were too cowardly to tell the bar patrons your
real name.

That is funny!
Frank- your "friend," your story, your implication. Sorry, if YOU
think I drew the wrong conclusion.
Deal with it!
If you don't want your friends (All your friends) to be thought of as
idiots, then don't describe them that way.
I expect they would punch you out if they knew you were using them as
bad examples without them knowing it.

I think looking a calculations based on percentage between placings of
some arbitrarily chosen race is silly.
The depth of the field and quality of the field (either way) skew
those figures dramatically.

Try instead looking at the potential benefit that any one rider can
achieve by, for example, shedding a pound or two and then see what
that means, if you MUST analyze.

You're reluctant to analyze anything in a "tech" discussion group? Hmm.
Maybe you belong in rec.bicycles.fashion instead?

We all enjoy that YOU think you aren't smarmy!
BTW I WAS discussing - you are just being a troll.

First that rider will be faster. A

few tenths in a sprint, a few seconds on a climb, might mean nothing,
might mean 10 places and might be the difference between winning a
race and not. Even in a spirited club ride, everyone knows who won the
climb or the sprint. It's not as if you are drinking beer latter with
the other and asking "Hey does anybody know who got to the top first?"
No it's usually enthusiastic friendly trash talk and/or mutual
support.

OK, I've held off telling this,

[snip]
TLDR
Thanks but no thanks. Your anecdotes have little to do with "tech"
and are so, "anecdotal."

If they exist. Maybe it was Fred.

If there were no Fred, it would have been necessary for Frank to
invent him.

LOL.
Maybe Fred is the same "2nd fastest guy in the club" that gets dropped
on a 20 mile ride with light rollers...

It really doesn't help me to plonk this guy. I have to find a way to
filter him out.

Frank Krygowski wrote:
DirtRoadie wrote:

But when choosing components, if one concludes that 10 grams or 20
grams makes no difference, then pretty soon there can be a lb or two
in those accumulated instances of insignificant grams.

I've never met anyone who did not understand that mass differences are
cumulative.

But with only the rarest exceptions, it's been only here that I've met
people who claim nothing is negligible - that a few grams difference can
be expected to affect the outcome of a race, or even a "spirited club
ride."

Frank's friend (that's what kills me) drilled out a seatpost bolt!
Apparently the folks in Ohio ARE complete idiots.

That's an example of the kind of language that would get a guy punched
out in a bar, even if you were too cowardly to tell the bar patrons your
real name.

I think looking a calculations based on percentage between placings of
some arbitrarily chosen race is silly.
The depth of the field and quality of the field (either way) skew
those figures dramatically.

Try instead looking at the potential benefit that any one rider can
achieve by, for example, shedding a pound or two and then see what
that means, if you MUST analyze.

You're reluctant to analyze anything in a "tech" discussion group? Hmm.
Maybe you belong in rec.bicycles.fashion instead?

First that rider will be faster. A
few tenths in a sprint, a few seconds on a climb, might mean nothing,
might mean 10 places and might be the difference between winning a
race and not. Even in a spirited club ride, everyone knows who won the
climb or the sprint. It's not as if you are drinking beer latter with
the other and asking "Hey does anybody know who got to the top first?"
No it's usually enthusiastic friendly trash talk and/or mutual
support.

OK, I've held off telling this, but: I still recall the first time I
showed up for a training ride with the fast guys in my club. It was
many, many years ago.

Yes, I was nervous. I did take the rack, fenders and handlebar bag off
my commuting bike, but I was still running 1 1/4" clinchers on Weinmann
A-124 rims (remember those?) and low-end SunTour stuff. There were about
a dozen guys, all looking very fit, all younger than me. Most if not all
were running tubulars, Campy, and real cleated shoes with their toe
clips, etc. I knew only one of them pretty well (he was 18 and the son
of good friends) but barely knew any of the others, who were very busy
comparing and discussing each others' expensive components.

The guy who organized the ride was nice enough to come over to me and
welcome me. But he also said "On these rides, we don't stop for anything
or anyone, so you can find your way back, right?" IOW, you'll never hang
with us, but thanks for showing up.

It wasn't a long ride, just 20 miles or so, out and back on a quiet
rolling highway. I was damned sure to stay with the group right from the
start, but not to push hard enough to blow up. (That was also when I
noticed the Campy in front of me hunting for the gears my SunTour was
hitting nicely.) Anyway, we cranked along nicely, and I was riding
carefully, but eventually I was amazed to see gaps behind me on some of
the rises. I was feeling good, pleased that there were no gaps in front
of me.

Turn around was in a plaza parking lot. Some guys may have expected a
few minutes rest, I don't know. But three other guys I happened to be
near said "Let's go!" and were quickly out of the lot. I jumped with
them, and saw the others take off maybe 75 feet back. I figured they'd
be back up with us soon.

They weren't. The 18-year-old was the ringleader (supposedly, 2nd
fastest in the club at that time) and he kept pushing. We pulled away
from everyone else. Three of us were rotating, but the young guy
wouldn't let anyone else pull; he stayed at the front.

To my surprise, first one then a second guy fell off on small climbs. I
tried again to pull, even riding up alongside him, but the young guy
would have none of it. So I rode his wheel in to the end of the ride. We
two finished well ahead of the next two, and far ahead of the rest of
the group. I was feeling elated that I not only survived, I did really
well.

The young guy was pretty effusive, congratulating me on the ride. (I was
still saying I felt bad that he wouldn't let me take a pull.) The guy
who organized the ride came up to me and congratulated me too.

The rest of the dozen? No enthusiastic friendly trash talk or support.
Not one said anything to me. They were mostly looking kind of sullen,
and still talking quietly among themselves about their choice of
shifters, their rims, their tires.

Nobody seemed interested in my A-124s.

BTW, that 18-year-old was the same guy who (on a different ride) told me
he could, in a sprint, feel the difference in weight from his aluminum
cogs. Maybe that's why I didn't finish ahead of him?

Sorry, I just realized I made a mistake. I used A-129s, not the
narrower A-124s.
http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...d-fa6118ca15e8


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Aug 3, 12:19*pm, Frank Krygowski
wrote:
James wrote:
On 03/08/12 15:22, wrote:
Manufacturers have _always_ produced light bike parts, according to
the standards and technology of the day.

That's the biggest load of manure you've dropped this week.

And, oh yeah - tell that to Brooks! They are still producing this;

http://www.brooksengland.com/catalogue-and-shop/saddles/road+%26+mtb/....

430 grams!!!

Now, check out weight weenies on the internet. I assume you know how to
google by now. Even for some relatively inert object like a seat post,
just bath in the glorious variability in weight.

Even the same brand, same length and same material, Kalloy 350mm @ 27.2
dia., year 2005 weighs 300g (advertised) but was only 266g (advertised)
in year 2000!

That means, they actually got heavier with time!

That's why you ream the inside. *Morse taper reamer. *You don't need as
much wall thickness at the bottom, and it may prevent you from surging
into the lead someday. *Every "Nothing is negligible" guy knows that!

--
- Frank Krygowski

I cannot let this slide-
Nobody else in this group has ever made any mention of reaming
seatposts.
We all agree it would be foolhardy and you impliedly characterized it
in that fashion when you first brought it up.
You were the first to broach the subject and now you are giving us the
details of the procedure.

So just how many times have you done this?
Are you actually the "drilled out" seatpost guy too?
Do you have other sins to confess?

DR

On Saturday, August 4, 2012 5:06:18 AM UTC+10, Frank Krygowski wrote:
DirtRoadie wrote:



But when choosing components, if one concludes that 10 grams or 20

grams makes no difference, then pretty soon there can be a lb or two

in those accumulated instances of insignificant grams.



I've never met anyone who did not understand that mass differences are

cumulative.

It appears as though you do not understand.


But with only the rarest exceptions, it's been only here that I've met

people who claim nothing is negligible - that a few grams difference can

be expected to affect the outcome of a race, or even a "spirited club ride."


Please cite or retract.

You're reluctant to analyze anything in a "tech" discussion group? Hmm.

Maybe you belong in rec.bicycles.fashion instead?

As you *still* haven't found me a handling-o-meter, I suggest you heed your own words. They will educate you on your fashion choices. (Hint, don't mention the Leotards).


OK, I've held off telling this, but: I still recall the first time I

showed up for a training ride with the fast guys in my club. It was

many, many years ago.

Oh, joy. Another "Look how good I am (was)" Frank story.

I rode past a guy who looked like Frank the other night. Yep, clipless pedals are certainly faster than Leotards.

--
JS.