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#211
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entry level lights to see by
awwwww turn the bars into windshields |
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#212
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entry level lights to see by
On Jan 9, 6:33*pm, Phil W Lee wrote:
SMS considered Wed, 09 Jan 2013 13:13:04 -0800 the perfect time to write: The issue is that there are not really any good 12V non-air horns for bicycles that emit at least 115dB. The Airzound is one manual air horn that works well, but it was much more expensive since I already had a 12V lighting system. The other thing that works well for commuting is the air powered boat horns. Since you don't need to use the horn all that much, the fact that the cartridges are disposable is not that big a deal. If you have 12v available, any motor vehicle scrapyard can supply a large and inexpensive choice of suitable horns. Just use a small battery as storage for the current they draw, which would be far higher than any bicycle dynamo system could provide. But if you can drive a 12v air horn, you already knew that part. It would be fun to see SMS's rig in action, if he actually uses what he advocates. Very bright, unfocused lights flashing away in the daytime. Super bright strobe flashing away in the rear. Flag sticking out to the side of his bike. Super-loud horn at the ready... So many defenses against such terrible danger! I'm reminded of a person SMS probably admires, and who seems to admire Scharf - the person who is probably the most prominent advocate of mandatory helmets for _all_ cyclists, no personal choice allowed. Apparently he also believes that riding a bike is astonishingly hazardous. As one might expect, that attitude extends to his philosophy of lighting. Here are excepts, from his website: ======================================= For headlights I use a car light. Nothing makes a driver respond quicker... For tail lights I started with two leg lights, showing red to the rear and white to the front. ...I still use one sometimes as an identifier... I added yellow blinkers, starting with a 7 inch barricade light. Those are ideal for bikes...Their only disadvantage is the size and weight, but if you are still hung up on that you just have not ridden enough at night. After the barricade light I added smaller yellow blinkers... Beginning about 1990 I added the now-standard red LED blinkers... I have replaced the incandescent blinking Far Out Flasher on my helmet with an Innova 24/7 led blinker... I got a sample at Interbike of a single yellow led that screws onto a shraeder valve and goes around. It uses hearing aid batteries. Another one introduced in 2002 has flashier led blinkers, but they are smaller. Either model adds to rotating weight right at the rim and uses an expensive battery. Saw another good idea at Interbike--a string of LED's that you weave around the spoke nipples... I also like to "layer" my tail lights, with one at the level of the wheel axle, one under the saddle, and one on the helmet... In 2010 the battery powering my car light failed once again and I bought a new Magicshine system...I use two of them... For reflectors I use the hottest 3M product I can lay my hands on to add reflectivity to pedals, shoes, cranks (flashes as the cranks go around), panniers, clothing, helmet, anywhere else... Flags are great for daytime. I use two on my recumbent. One has a blinking white strobe light on the top of the shaft... ============================================= There you have it. SAFETY!!! All it takes is two flags, about six or seven lights and maybe a dozen reflectors. Oops. I forgot about the horn. ;-) - Frank Krygowski |
#213
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entry level lights to see by
On Jan 9, 11:15*pm, Helmut Springer wrote:
Andre Jute wrote: Oehler not only comments freely on competitive products, he pretends to be unbiased, conducting tests published in German magazines, He publishes test scenario, parameters and resulting data for everyone to base his own conclusions on those, a common practise for engineers. Oehler publishes his tests of competitive products in consumer magazines as supposedly unbiased tests. He is not and cannot be unbiased; that's his living at stake there. Professional engineers do not behave like this. If a Philips engineer conducted a test, which was then published in a Dutch magazine, lauding his own products over everyone else's, in the terms that Oehler does, Oehler would be the first to scream "Foul!" If a Philips engineer published a gloating photo of a broken Edelux, Oehler would be the first to screech that it was unprofessional behaviour. You might now agree on the test scenario, Your attempt to redirect the argument from the principle of avoiding conflicts of interest to the minutiae of Oehler's test is a debating trick unworthy of you. Whether Oehler's test is good, bad or indifferent is irrelevant; the fact is that Oehler as an employee of one of the manufacturers of the goods tested should not be involved in those tests at all. It is also particularly damning that none but the products of Oehler's employer and their suppliers have ever come out on top. the general view in Germany tends to see them as plausible. Yes, I'm aware that German hobbyist magazines have far lower standards than those in Anglophone nations; the excuse always given is that they are so much smaller that they cannot afford independent tests, and Oehler already has the test equipment. That's the same brand of limply complaisant garbage as your apologia above for Oehler's constant knocking of his competitors. Furthermore, those magazines see themselves as the promoters of German industry rather than independent commentators. It's a form of xenophobia and industrial nationalism. Tell us then, Andreas, does an Edelux not break if you drop it? The context is fixed mount vs. easily detachable. *The drawback of the latter is the higher risk to drop it while putting it on/off. Really? Oehler didn't make that clear. In any event, it doesn't excuse the way he posts a sample of one as if it condemns a competitor's entire line. It doesn't excuse his tone, it doesn't excuse posting about a competitive product, period. Now that you've explained the context, it raises a further question about Oehler's behaviour. Is he ignorant of the fact that the Philips Safe Ride range includes several fixed mounts (if he isn't ignorant of the fact, an unbiased observer would have mentioned it) or is he being malicious in not mentioning it? -- Best regards helmut springer * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * panta rhei I admire your loyalty to your friend but you're attempting to defend the indefensible. Good luck. Andre Jute "A example of one is meaningless." -- Phil W Lee |
#214
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entry level lights to see by
On Jan 9, 11:49*pm, Phil W Lee wrote:
Andre Jute considered Wed, 9 Jan 2013 13:05:06 -0800 (PST) the perfect time to write: On Jan 9, 4:03*pm, Andreas Oehler wrote: Sun, 06 Jan 2013 07:33:47 -0800, sms: On 12/29/2012 5:59 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote: snip The advantage of Dan' lights is that they are easily transferred to different bikes. That's one of many advantages over the Philips Saferide: 1. Easily transferable 2. Far less expensive 3. Greater light output 4. Strobe mode 5. Usable as a repair light 6. Widely available Drawbacks: Falling from the handlebar to the concretet floor one time - the front cover breaks. The edge of the front cover blinds the user. See:http://velo.dyndns.eU/bilder/philips...://velo.dyndns... Andreas I love the partisanship of Andreas Oehler, who is an employee of Schmidt Maschinenbau, the makers of the Edelux, built with parts sourced from Busch & Muller; if BUMM cuts them off, they're dead in the water. Who will believe Oehler will ever tell us the truth about BUMM lamps? Oehler not only comments freely on competitive products, he pretends to be unbiased, conducting tests published in German magazines, which of course always finds his own product (Edelux) and the products of his component suppliers (Busch & Muller) superior to everyone else's product. If a British or American writer had the impertinence -- actually the goddamn cheek -- to commit such acts of blatantly compromised conflicts of interest, he'd be shouted down by everyone on RBT, and if he were an engineer, as Oehler is, is seems quite likely his professional body would direct him to more appropriate behaviour on pain of penalties. Tell us then, Andreas, does an Edelux not break if you drop it? You use limp plastic lenses, then, the kind that deforms rather than shatters? How do you intend to drop it, when it's bolted solidly to the bike? crap about using household appliances as bicycle lights snipped As a publicist, dear Andre, you should to stick to the pub. Every time I've seen you in action, you've had precisely the opposite effect to your intention. IFTFY. I'm not trying to sell you anything, Phil, or even to persuade you of anything; I don't care what you think, only that you do think. I disseminate information as a matter of noblesse oblige, because I'm convinced that a large middle class guarantees my liberties and privileges. Since the greatest of those liberties is free speech, I take a special interest in journalistic standards, which Andreas Oehler routinely breaches. Oehler IS trying to sell you something, and you resent being told you're falling for it. Natural human reaction, I suppose. Don't worry, I won't hold it against you. Andre Jute |
#215
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entry level lights to see by
On 1/9/2013 3:15 PM, Helmut Springer wrote:
Andre Jute wrote: Oehler not only comments freely on competitive products, he pretends to be unbiased, conducting tests published in German magazines, He publishes test scenario, parameters and resulting data for everyone to base his own conclusions on those, a common practise for engineers. You might now agree on the test scenario, the general view in Germany tends to see them as plausible. Tell us then, Andreas, does an Edelux not break if you drop it? The context is fixed mount vs. easily detachable. The drawback of the latter is the higher risk to drop it while putting it on/off. That may be true, but I think that it's the $200 Edelux that I'd most want to detach and take with me when leaving the bike somewhere. |
#216
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entry level lights to see by
Andre Jute:
On Jan 9, 11:15 pm, Helmut Springer wrote: Andre Jute wrote: Oehler not only comments freely on competitive products, he pretends to be unbiased, conducting tests published in German magazines, Uncomfortable because his first name resembles Jute's? He publishes test scenario, parameters and resulting data for everyone to base his own conclusions on those, a common practise for engineers. Oehler publishes his tests of competitive products in consumer magazines as supposedly unbiased tests. He is not and cannot be unbiased; that's his living at stake there. Professional engineers do Can't you make a double effort to respect split personalities? (Who, apart from some incredibly naive cyclists, would believe that, after working hours, his views are entirely unbiased, even if he does?) So what? Especially with the open ward of r.b.t characters around, why hold the guy to a higher standard than, say, some clueless "strobe expert?" not behave like this. If a Philips engineer conducted a test, which was then published in a Dutch magazine, lauding his own products over everyone else's, in the terms that Oehler does, Oehler would be the first to scream "Foul!" If a Philips engineer published a gloating photo of a broken Edelux, Oehler would be the first to screech that it was unprofessional behaviour. How do you know? Go ahead, invite the engineers from competing firms over. Can't wait to hear their takes on the issues, unfiltered by corporate law and PR droids. Let's learn all about optics shrunk-to-fit a marketing scheme, and their answers when asked about miniscule screw sizes, or fork mounts breaking. |
#217
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entry level lights to see by
Andre Jute wrote:
He publishes test scenario, parameters and resulting data for everyone to base his own conclusions on those, a common practise for engineers. Oehler publishes his tests of competitive products in consumer magazines as supposedly unbiased tests. Obviously those magazines are fine to put their name and reputation behind that claim, besides several co-authors on some articles. Common practise. If a Philips engineer conducted a test, which was then published in a Dutch magazine, lauding his own products over everyone else's, in the terms that Oehler does, Oehler would be the first to scream "Foul!" You start from the assumption of manipulation, and then of course can't come to any other result. The German market is important and those publications run in highly visible magazines. One would assume that biased tests would trigger reactions from discriminated competitors towards the magazine's editors. Especially from competitors that command significant higher advertising budgets than Schmidt. I've seen comments on the offered conclusions, but I've never seen negative comments on the published data/pictures allowing everyone to come to their own conclusions. If a Philips engineer published a gloating photo of a broken Edelux, Oehler would be the first to screech that it was unprofessional behaviour. Based on past experience I assume he would inquiry about the accident leading to that damage, comment on the failure and note if there was a possible repair. A fact isn't unprofessional. Trying to base claims on facts which are not supporting them is unprofessional. Your attempt to redirect the argument from the principle of avoiding conflicts of interest to the minutiae of Oehler's test is a debating trick unworthy of you. Whether Oehler's test is good, bad or indifferent is irrelevant; the fact is that Oehler as an employee of one of the manufacturers of the goods tested should not be involved in those tests at all. You didn't get one of the major principles of science: an experiment counts regardless of the experimenter. Either it's well documented and the results are reproducible, or not. Yes, I'm aware that German hobbyist magazines have far lower standards than those in Anglophone nations; the excuse always given is that they are so much smaller that they cannot afford independent tests, and Oehler already has the test equipment. That's the same brand of limply complaisant garbage as your apologia above for Oehler's constant knocking of his competitors. Furthermore, those magazines see themselves as the promoters of German industry rather than independent commentators. It's a form of xenophobia and industrial nationalism. You're venturing into conspiracy theory, have fun! -- Best regards helmut springer panta rhei |
#218
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entry level lights to see by
Andre Jute wrote:
I admire your loyalty to your friend but you're attempting to defend the indefensible. On a sidenote I doubt Andreas would necessarily call me a friend. But based on a lot of discussions and disputes I do feel inclined to acknowledge his adherence to professional standards, yes. -- Best regards helmut springer panta rhei |
#219
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entry level lights to see by
On Jan 10, 2:48*am, sms wrote:
On 1/9/2013 3:15 PM, Helmut Springer wrote: Andre Jute wrote: Oehler not only comments freely on competitive products, he pretends to be unbiased, conducting tests published in German magazines, He publishes test scenario, parameters and resulting data for everyone to base his own conclusions on those, a common practise for engineers. *You might now agree on the test scenario, the general view in Germany tends to see them as plausible. Tell us then, Andreas, does an Edelux not break if you drop it? The context is fixed mount vs. easily detachable. *The drawback of the latter is the higher risk to drop it while putting it on/off. That may be true, but I think that it's the $200 Edelux that I'd most want to detach and take with me when leaving the bike somewhere. Quite so, Scharfie. But a problem immediately arises. The closest easily removable lamp to an Edelux is a BUMM Ixon Speed, same optics, around the same elevated (read "exclusive", understand "exclusionary") price. But the definitive authority Andreas Oehler -- if we believe Helmut Springer's interpretation, and why should we not? -- says the BUMM Ixus is an inferior lamp because it is more easily dropped. Personally, I rate lamps by their contribution to my comfort and security on the bicycle, not by how they temp thieves or wriggle through the fingers of the cackhanded. On the Oehler-Scharf Continuum then, the Cyo/Fly/Edelux/Ixus Mutual Admiration Lamps ($90-astronomical) are out as too mean of beam or too much attracted to the hard concrete, and only the self-contained LED MR16 ($6-10) survives as difficult to drop or steal, and, above all, throwing enough light in the right places not to be described as incompetently designed. Lamps as cheap as the MR16 are not much of a choice for those who're making a life's work up upholding BIcycling for the Euro-Elite, defining their worth as cyclists by recognizable brand names (NOT Taiwanese or Japanese, and DEFINITELY NOT Chinese) that they own. Makes one proud to be associated with such a bunch of self-confessed fashion victims. Andre Jute |
#220
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entry level lights to see by
On 1/10/2013 6:00 AM, Andre Jute wrote:
Lamps as cheap as the MR16 are not much of a choice for those who're making a life's work up upholding BIcycling for the Euro-Elite, defining their worth as cyclists by recognizable brand names (NOT Taiwanese or Japanese, and DEFINITELY NOT Chinese) that they own. You could use one-way bolts to hold the MR16 onto the bike, but if someone really wants to steal it then it's not a big deal, at $10 or so. It's quite ironic that one of the best dynamo lights in terms of optics and beam shape is also the least expensive by far. But not everyone has the mechanical skills or willingness to build something an enclosure and mount for an MR16. For those people I recommend this lamp http://dx.com/p/3w-3-led-270-lumen-waterproof-flood-light-projection-warm-white-lamp-12v-47572. It's a bit more expensive at $24.50, but it's less effort (you'd still have to solder and heat shrink wires onto the short cable out of the lamp). At least it's all sealed and waterproof. For battery powered lights I prefer the "grab and go" type of mount, though I'll deal with a no-tools attachment system if necessary. For my spousal unit who isn't going to want to fiddle with latches, clips, rubber spacers, wing nuts, or Velcro, either the light has to be permanently attached or "grab and go." Since her route is such that dynamo lighting is not sufficient, she has to use battery powered lights. I wasn't satisfied with any of the plastic and rubber handlebar mounts so I built one using Maglite ASXCAT6 Clips (plastic, but very strong plastic) http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000056BMV and a Driftmaster 1 Inch Rail Li'l Pro 215-B http://www.driftmaster.com/files/roundrail.gif, and a short piece of aluminum flat bar. http://nordicgroup.us/s78/images/IMG_0303.JPG. At Interbike, in talking to bicycle lighting companies, their task is convincing customers to spend $150-300 on a battery powered lighting system versus using an LED flashlight and handlebar mount (and there were many handlebar mounts for flashlights at the show as well). There were no high end dynamo lighting companies at the show, other than a few hub manufacturers that have some dynamo hubs as part of their product line. A couple of high end manufacturers had bicycles with dynamo lights, i.e. Tern, which had one of the new dynamo hubs that has a clutch so you can disconnect the dynamo when not needed to reduce drag. They also had the Biologic Joule 3 which is 73% efficient, beating the Schmidt hub significantly, unless the 66% efficiency for the Schmidt hub has improved since the last test I could find. The Joule 3 isn't cheap though, it's $150 as an aftermarket part. That's still significantly cheaper than the Schmidt hub though. |
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