My Handlebars Dissolved

cork is wood.

closed cell foam's more expensive than open cel because...

eg, the blue polyolefin sleeping pads at Wal are not closed cell foam but not sponge absorbant either.

bars here covered with foam tubing from the WA/OR foam tubing people.

open cell ?


https://www.google.com/#q=closed+cel...handlebar+tape

closed cell 'feel' is more like your cork/vinyl 'feels'

again, fault lies with the factory qual controls allowing corrodible metals shipping.

the Al here is the sponge not a surrounding reservoir.

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 7:20:38 PM UTC-8, James wrote:
On 20/11/13 12:34, Jay Beattie wrote:

Yes, but on the other side of the bars, and well insulated (rubber

lined clamp made of plastic). I wouldn't be surprised if there were

some sort of contribution from the black coating. Like Frank, I

wonder why I haven't had this problem with my old satin anodized

Cinelli bars -- or any silver bars.



I hope it is not related to the color, because I got another set of

black bars. They're the only cheap-o bars available.





My black bars, and the ones before them (replaced because a new head

stem required larger diameter at the clamp) are not apparently

dissolving at all.



Ritchy something. Like these, but I think cheaper and with a groovy bit

for cables...



http://www.wiggle.com.au/ritchey-com...lebar/?lang=au

Mine were similar, although a slightly more angular bend under the levers. Performance $29 house brand bars are practically identical to the picture. They probably all come from the same Chinese factory.

I wasn't paying attention (or forgot) and bought a new set with the 31.8 diameter, which was O.K. because I had a stem sitting around that would fit. The problem was with the cross levers and the bulge. The levers had to be mounted further outboard and took up too much bar space. I dumped them because they get little use anyway. Put in new brake cable housing due to the reconfigure. New tape. I'll try it out in a few minutes.

-- Jay Beattie.

On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 11:42:12 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 3:00:49 AM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:



Maybe a simplified version of the chemistry might help. The reason

aluminum doesn't "rust" is that aluminum instantly oxidizes on

exposure to air. The aluminum oxide coating is thin, transparent, and

most important, not porous to water. That means the underlying

aluminum is not exposed to air or liquids as long as the aluminum

oxide coating is present.



This is very different from unprotected iron, which forms a layer of

iron oxide (rust), which is quite porous. Water goes right through

the layer of iron oxide, and attacks the underlying iron. Eventually,

the iron oxide layer becomes thicker, and the underlying iron gets

thinner.



With aluminum, as long as the oxide coating is present, little can

attack the underlying aluminum. However, there are chemicals that

attack the aluminum oxide. Most common is HCl or hydrochloric acid.

Even diluted, it will remove the protective oxide coating. ... etc.



I'm still curious about the black coating. Anybody know what it is? Any chance it somehow prevents the formation of an impervious aluminum oxide layer? So far, I think we've gotten only two instances (Jay's and Andrew's photo) of corroded bars, and both seem to have been black.



When my daughter lived in Portland, I replaced her road bike's bars because her handlebar bag mount had worn notches in them right next to the stem. I put black bars on the bike. She's in a drier climate now (i.e. she's anywhere else than Portland!) but I'm pretty curious about this.



(BTW, the cable grooves are usually on the bottom of the bars, IIRC. Those grooves shouldn't hold moisture.)



- Frank Krygowski

All the grooves for cables that I've seen on handle bars are either on the front or the back of the bar and some have a groove on the front and th back. I've yet to see a groove on the bottom of the bars.

Cheers

On Wednesday, November 20, 2013 12:54:06 AM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 20:42:12 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski wrote:

I'm still curious about the black coating. Anybody know what it is?

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-160.html

Ummm... The black stuff looks like vinyl bar wrap. Or, do you mean
the grey stuff marbled in with the white stuff in the corroded area?
If so, the white stuff is probably aluminum oxide or hydroxide. The
darker grey stuff is more of the same, with some copperic, chloride,
or carbonate contaminants commonly found in water. Now, if you want
to turn aluminum really black, without the hassle of anodizing, try:
http://www.birchwoodcasey.com/Finishing/FinishingDetails.aspx?ProductID=0790cc91-b2e8-488d-a6fa-8820790beefb

http://www.birchwoodcasey.com/files/MSDS/(2010)15125-15132-Aluminum%20Black.pdf

Mostly selenium and phosphoric acids with a dash of copper sulfate to
produce a darker color.

I wasn't talking about the corrosion products. I meant the original black on new handlebars. I guess what I _really_ wonder is, what's the black stuff on my daughter's handlebars? I'm skeptical that it's anodizing with dye, because I recall that it's quite rough. (Her husband's bike came with black bars, but I recall that they're quite smooth.)

Any chance it somehow prevents the formation of an impervious
aluminum oxide layer? So far, I think we've gotten only two
instances (Jay's and Andrew's photo) of corroded bars, and
both seem to have been black.

The black coating on aluminum handlebars is usually anodizing, which
is quite good at protecting the underlying aluminum. Play the video:
http://www.engineerguy.com/elements/videos/video-anodizing.htm

Good video! But again, every anodized part I'm familiar with was smooth. I'm not good at estimating surface roughness values without using at least a comparison block, but IIRC these bars have a distinct pebbly finish, each lump being rounded, but perhaps 0.030" diameter. The depth of the lumps isn't great, but it's impossible to run a finger over it and not notice the texture.

BTW, I remember (and filed for reference) a little article on anodizing from _Bicycling!_ magazine's early (pre-Rodale) days. IIRC, it was written by Fred DeLong, and the title (or at least, the gist) was "Anodizing aluminum at home." It involved a car battery, perhaps some acid, perhaps some lead, and lots of cautions.

That was back when _Bicycling!_ (with their own pre-Rodale exclamation point) was published by a much smaller company, and was much more interesting. I doubt Rodale's lawyers would ever permit such a thing to be published these days!

When my daughter lived in Portland, I replaced her road bike's
bars because her handlebar bag mount had worn notches in them right
next to the stem. I put black bars on the bike. She's in a drier
climate now (i.e. she's anywhere else than Portland!) but I'm
pretty curious about this.

Let me guess(tm)... the bag straps were almost perpetually wet.

No, in her case, it was entirely mechanical. Her handlebar bag hung from a hanger made of roughly 1/4" steel rod, the type that loops under the stem and over the tops of the bars, then shoots forward. Thousands of miles of use had caused the steel rod to wear into the top surface of the bars, leaving two dents. With that wear being on the upper (tension) side of the bars, I thought it best to replace them.

- Frank Krygowski

On Wednesday, November 20, 2013 10:58:33 AM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:

All the grooves for cables that I've seen on handle bars are either on the front or the back of the bar and some have a groove on the front and th back. I've yet to see a groove on the bottom of the bars.

You're probably right. I don't even own a bike with grooved bars.

- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski wrote:
But again, every anodized part I'm familiar with was smooth.

Depends on the surfsce before anodizing, e.g. Ritchey bars which have
been shot peened are quite rough...

--
Best regards
helmut springer panta rhei

On Wednesday, November 20, 2013 3:32:54 PM UTC-5, Helmut Springer wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

But again, every anodized part I'm familiar with was smooth.

Depends on the surfsce before anodizing, e.g. Ritchey bars which have
been shot peened are quite rough...

Hmm. Maybe these were shot peened. However, IIRC they were inexpensive bars bought on sale from Nashbar. If shot peened, I suppose they were an even better bargain.

- Frank Krygowski

On 21/11/13 07:32, Helmut Springer wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:
But again, every anodized part I'm familiar with was smooth.

Depends on the surfsce before anodizing, e.g. Ritchey bars which have
been shot peened are quite rough...


Yep. Mine are.

--
JS

Frank Krygowski wrote:
:On Wednesday, November 20, 2013 3:32:54 PM UTC-5, Helmut Springer wrote:
: Frank Krygowski wrote:
:
: But again, every anodized part I'm familiar with was smooth.
:
: Depends on the surfsce before anodizing, e.g. Ritchey bars which have
: been shot peened are quite rough...

:Hmm. Maybe these were shot peened. However, IIRC they were inexpensive bars bought on sale from Nashbar. If shot peened, I suppose they were an even better bargain.

Shot peening isn't the expensive, and it can save some pre anodizing
cleaning steps.

--
sig 32

On Wed, 20 Nov 2013 12:26:59 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On Wednesday, November 20, 2013 12:54:06 AM UTC-5, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 19 Nov 2013 20:42:12 -0800 (PST), Frank Krygowski wrote:

I'm still curious about the black coating. Anybody know what it is?

http://pardo.net/bike/pic/fail-001/FAIL-160.html

Ummm... The black stuff looks like vinyl bar wrap. Or, do you mean
the grey stuff marbled in with the white stuff in the corroded area?
If so, the white stuff is probably aluminum oxide or hydroxide. The
darker grey stuff is more of the same, with some copperic, chloride,
or carbonate contaminants commonly found in water. Now, if you want
to turn aluminum really black, without the hassle of anodizing, try:
http://www.birchwoodcasey.com/Finishing/FinishingDetails.aspx?ProductID=0790cc91-b2e8-488d-a6fa-8820790beefb

http://www.birchwoodcasey.com/files/MSDS/(2010)15125-15132-Aluminum%20Black.pdf

Mostly selenium and phosphoric acids with a dash of copper sulfate to
produce a darker color.

I wasn't talking about the corrosion products. I meant the original black on new handlebars. I guess what I _really_ wonder is, what's the black stuff on my daughter's handlebars? I'm skeptical that it's anodizing with dye, because I recall that it's quite rough. (Her husband's bike came with black bars, but I recall that they're quite smooth.)

Any chance it somehow prevents the formation of an impervious
aluminum oxide layer? So far, I think we've gotten only two
instances (Jay's and Andrew's photo) of corroded bars, and
both seem to have been black.

The black coating on aluminum handlebars is usually anodizing, which
is quite good at protecting the underlying aluminum. Play the video:
http://www.engineerguy.com/elements/videos/video-anodizing.htm

Good video! But again, every anodized part I'm familiar with was smooth. I'm not good at estimating surface roughness values without using at least a comparison block, but IIRC these bars have a distinct pebbly finish, each lump being rounded, but perhaps 0.030" diameter. The depth of the lumps isn't great, but it's impossible to run a finger over it and not notice the texture.

BTW, I remember (and filed for reference) a little article on anodizing from _Bicycling!_ magazine's early (pre-Rodale) days. IIRC, it was written by Fred DeLong, and the title (or at least, the gist) was "Anodizing aluminum at home." It involved a car battery, perhaps some acid, perhaps some lead, and lots of cautions.


It is battery acid (diluted) and a battery charger and a lead cathode
:-) But all I've read about anodizing says something like, "if you
want a smooth shiny finish than you must start with a smooth shiny
finish" which seems to imply that if you don't care what the finish
was just pop it into the bath and hook up the charger, and if so than
a bead blasted finish on the bars is cheaper to manufacture than a
polished finish.

That was back when _Bicycling!_ (with their own pre-Rodale exclamation point) was published by a much smaller company, and was much more interesting. I doubt Rodale's lawyers would ever permit such a thing to be published these days!

When my daughter lived in Portland, I replaced her road bike's
bars because her handlebar bag mount had worn notches in them right
next to the stem. I put black bars on the bike. She's in a drier
climate now (i.e. she's anywhere else than Portland!) but I'm
pretty curious about this.

Let me guess(tm)... the bag straps were almost perpetually wet.

No, in her case, it was entirely mechanical. Her handlebar bag hung from a hanger made of roughly 1/4" steel rod, the type that loops under the stem and over the tops of the bars, then shoots forward. Thousands of miles of use had caused the steel rod to wear into the top surface of the bars, leaving two dents. With that wear being on the upper (tension) side of the bars, I thought it best to replace them.

- Frank Krygowski
--
Cheers,

John B.