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aluminum machining? A q that is technical but not bicyclic
I have a bit of an odd question with regard to laptop manufacture and
aluminum machining. It's essentially one of curiosity, but I think a few people here may have some insight. If you don't know, Apple just introduced some revised laptop models. Great new features, bold design, whatever. The feature that made me sit bolt-upright and say "no way!" was the case structure. The old MacBook design used plastic molded cases. I think there might be a metal inner frame, too. The "Pro" model used aluminum cases, but I'm virtually certain they were stamped, and I think they relied on an inner metal frame as well (depending on the year, these frames were made out of aluminum or magnesium, I think, and presumably cast, but possibly stamped). This year's models are all sporting machined aluminum cases, and apparently have no inner frame to speak of (they call it "unibody" a la modern car designs). It appears the major components bolt more or less directly to the body. Web page here, including video of what may be actual manufacturing techniques and pictures of the bare case: http://www.apple.com/macbook/design.html It's a clever idea, and I can see benefits. But just watch that production video! How in the heck can they be doing CNC machining in a production-line fashion and be cost-competitive? I would have thought the cost and time (and manufacturing capacity?) would have been prohibitive. Anyone here have an insight as to how they're doing this without spending way more money than when they were molding cases out of plastic? I think these laptops are probably being made in the PRC, though there's a small chance this is a Taiwanese product. I mean, Apple's not crazy, so I assume this will all work, at least in theory, but when did machining costs and capacities get so cheap that they could conceive of milling out several million complex case designs every year? -- Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/ "In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls." "In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them." |
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aluminum machining? A q that is technical but not bicyclic
On Wed, 22 Oct 2008 07:44:24 GMT, Ryan Cousineau
wrote: I have a bit of an odd question with regard to laptop manufacture and aluminum machining. It's essentially one of curiosity, but I think a few people here may have some insight. If you don't know, Apple just introduced some revised laptop models. Great new features, bold design, whatever. The feature that made me sit bolt-upright and say "no way!" was the case structure. The old MacBook design used plastic molded cases. I think there might be a metal inner frame, too. The "Pro" model used aluminum cases, but I'm virtually certain they were stamped, and I think they relied on an inner metal frame as well (depending on the year, these frames were made out of aluminum or magnesium, I think, and presumably cast, but possibly stamped). This year's models are all sporting machined aluminum cases, and apparently have no inner frame to speak of (they call it "unibody" a la modern car designs). It appears the major components bolt more or less directly to the body. Web page here, including video of what may be actual manufacturing techniques and pictures of the bare case: http://www.apple.com/macbook/design.html It's a clever idea, and I can see benefits. But just watch that production video! How in the heck can they be doing CNC machining in a production-line fashion and be cost-competitive? I would have thought the cost and time (and manufacturing capacity?) would have been prohibitive. Anyone here have an insight as to how they're doing this without spending way more money than when they were molding cases out of plastic? I think these laptops are probably being made in the PRC, though there's a small chance this is a Taiwanese product. I mean, Apple's not crazy, so I assume this will all work, at least in theory, but when did machining costs and capacities get so cheap that they could conceive of milling out several million complex case designs every year? Dear Ryan, Er, who said that they were spending less money to machine laptop frames out of aluminum? A stiffer aluminum laptop probably handles better in corners at high speed, an advantage prized by the marketing department. Or maybe the aluminum is a giant heat sink? The NeXT computer had an expensive and impractical cast magnesium case that Jobs insisted had to be a perfect cube, without even an invisible half degree tapering to help the manufacturing process--all painted black. The molds were hideously expensive, black is the worst choice for hiding minor paint defects and resisting scuffing in shipping, and there were one or two other little problems with the great new features and bold design. For some reason, perfect-cube magnesium computer cases painted flat black failed to catch on. Possibly that example is familiar? http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...4681a6bbb87dba Cheers, Carl Fogel |
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aluminum machining? A q that is technical but not bicyclic
On 22 okt, 09:44, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
I have a bit of an odd question with regard to laptop manufacture and aluminum machining. It's essentially one of curiosity, but I think a few people here may have some insight. If you don't know, Apple just introduced some revised laptop models. Great new features, bold design, whatever. The feature that made me sit bolt-upright and say "no way!" was the case structure. The old MacBook design used plastic molded cases. I think there might be a metal inner frame, too. The "Pro" model used aluminum cases, but I'm virtually certain they were stamped, and I think they relied on an inner metal frame as well (depending on the year, these frames were made out of aluminum or magnesium, I think, and presumably cast, but possibly stamped). This year's models are all sporting machined aluminum cases, and apparently have no inner frame to speak of (they call it "unibody" a la modern car designs). It appears the major components bolt more or less directly to the body. Web page here, including video of what may be actual manufacturing techniques and pictures of the bare case: http://www.apple.com/macbook/design.html It's a clever idea, and I can see benefits. But just watch that production video! How in the heck can they be doing CNC machining in a production-line fashion and be cost-competitive? Apple products are never cost competitive (at least on this side of the pond), but people buy them for various reasons. I saw the video and I liked the idea of less parts and an exlusive, sturdy and beaatiful case of that laptop. It's like a titanium bicycle frame. God awful expensive compared with an cheap aluminum frame which does the same. Lou |
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aluminum machining? A q that is technical but not bicyclic
On Oct 22, 7:32*am, wrote:
Apple products are never cost competitive (at least on this side of the pond), A quick-grab, quick read look at notebook prices/features, Mac v. PC in the USA: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do? command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9023959&pageNum ber=3 (Tiny for above): http://tinyurl.com/2aeqh9 That ignores factory-installed applications. I have no idea what's what with PC's these days, but the new Macs come with a pretty impressive collection of apps, including Time Machine (auto backup). but people buy them for various reasons. Superior user experience is up near the top of the list. Speaking of user experience, one reason I'm sure many computer buyers have recently "gone Mac" is the disaster that was Vista. (BTW: I've seen people say "they're the same thing" since Mac went to Intel. They're not. But I guess that flies in some quarters) I saw the video and I liked the idea of less parts and an exlusive, sturdy and beaatiful case of that laptop. It's like a titanium bicycle frame. God awful expensive compared with an cheap aluminum frame which does the same. Guessing the Alu Mac laptop will nestle into a favorable price niche, similar to the comparison above. Meanwhile, "have you seen any 'naked Alu' frames in the marketplace?", similar to the polished or brushed "naked Ti" offerings? That's why my daily driver is naked Ti, and brushed (not polished), at that. No paint or even "gloss" to worry about, and no corrosion problems, either. So, unless I bend or break it, the cost/mile comparison might well be favorable to Ti. (going on with the user experience thing): We've had a couple of G5 iMacs for what, two years, three now? And never have had to use the Restore discs even once a little bit (g). Not a "fair" comparison, maybe, but far, far superior to the old 98SE ("Sucks Extra") PC that the Macs replaced. "Windows will now re-size your desktop (Duck and Cover!)". And hey, if "they fixed Vista", which seems to be the unspoken thrust of the new ad blitz here in the USA, "Well, good, they really really NEEDED to fix Vista". (How humiliating-- or it should have been, anyhow-- when Dell was forced to offer retrofit of the previous OS in response to the mighty stink of Vista) Uh-oh: http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/ Well... maybe they haven't fixed Vista after all! (No real surprise there; that's a family tradition going back to DOS) No matter. "I'm a Mac". It's still just a machine made by man, imperfect, but my troubles are mighty, mighty few. --D-y |
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aluminum machining? A q that is technical but not bicyclic
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
I mean, Apple's not crazy, so I assume this will all work, at least in theory, but when did machining costs and capacities get so cheap that they could conceive of milling out several million complex case designs every year? There are some advantages of doing this in terms of thermals which can get very costly when you start using heat pipes. I wonder if Apple is using the aluminum body as a giant heat sink, in order to be able to use a slower speed, and quieter fan. Look at the new high-power LED flashlights. They're not plastic because they use the aluminum or steel body as a heat sink to the the LED which generates a lot of heat at the junction. With incandescent bulbs the heat could be dissipated forward through the lens, but not with LEDSs. |
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aluminum machining? A q that is technical but not bicyclic
Ryan Cousineau wrote:
The old MacBook design used plastic molded cases. I think there might be a metal inner frame, too. The "Pro" model used aluminum cases, but I'm virtually certain they were stamped, and I think they relied on an inner metal frame as well (depending on the year, these frames were made out of aluminum or magnesium, I think, and presumably cast, but possibly stamped). My 17" G4 Powerbook has a pressed aluminum shell which is flabby and bendable to a disconcerting degree. It also concentrates heat in small spots on the bottom much more than I would expect for an aluminum enclosure. I would gladly have accepted a couple of extra pounds added to the laptop's already formidable weight in return for the thing having more structural rigidity than a Trapper Keeper. This year's models are all sporting machined aluminum cases, and apparently have no inner frame to speak of (they call it "unibody" a la modern car designs). It appears the major components bolt more or less directly to the body. That sounds like it could have substantial structural and thermal benefits, especially given that the marketing trend towards thinner portable computers works against both those things. Web page here, including video of what may be actual manufacturing techniques and pictures of the bare case: http://www.apple.com/macbook/design.html It's a clever idea, and I can see benefits. But just watch that production video! How in the heck can they be doing CNC machining in a production-line fashion and be cost-competitive? I would have thought the cost and time (and manufacturing capacity?) would have been prohibitive. I don't know about that. Certainly it's a lot more expensive than making cases out of plastic, but it probably offsets thermal management features that would add cost and would otherwise be necessary. If you remember nice-looking CNC machined brake boosters from Tektro and others selling for very reasonable prices even after distributor and retail markup, you might be able to extrapolate the fundamentally similar plate construction of the Apple laptop costing a similar amount per area of plate, removed volume of material, etc. That said, I prototyped a series of avionics component boxes once that were machined from 9" x 9" x 2.25" blocks of aluminum. They had lots of little ribs and small machine threads down in their bottoms, and their wall thicknesses were reduced to 1/16". After I had vetted and modified the original design for manufacturability, each one of these boxes still cost on the order of $500 from an efficient production shop with more suitable machinery than I had available to do the prototyping. If they had only been 3/4" thick, though, they would have been fast/easy/cheap by comparison. Anyone here have an insight as to how they're doing this without spending way more money than when they were molding cases out of plastic? I think these laptops are probably being made in the PRC, though there's a small chance this is a Taiwanese product. For high-quality, high volume CNC milling, I'd look to Taiwan first. I mean, Apple's not crazy, so I assume this will all work, at least in theory, but when did machining costs and capacities get so cheap that they could conceive of milling out several million complex case designs every year? I'm guessing that their equation is partly a matter of being willing to take the high road design-wise and escalate costs a little bit in the process, and the one-piece machined case allowing them to trim away other features and components that would have added up to some comparable cost figure anyway. Chalo |
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aluminum machining? A q that is technical but not bicyclic
On Oct 22, 12:44 am, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
I mean, Apple's not crazy, so I assume this will all work, at least in theory, but when did machining costs and capacities get so cheap that they could conceive of milling out several million complex case designs every year? Hard disk drives have had intricately machined aluminum cases for years. Tom Ace |
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aluminum machining? A q that is technical but not bicyclic
In article
], Ryan Cousineau wrote: I have a bit of an odd question with regard to laptop manufacture and aluminum machining. It's essentially one of curiosity, but I think a few people here may have some insight. If you don't know, Apple just introduced some revised laptop models. Great new features, bold design, whatever. The feature that made me sit bolt-upright and say "no way!" was the case structure. The old MacBook design used plastic molded cases. I think there might be a metal inner frame, too. The "Pro" model used aluminum cases, but I'm virtually certain they were stamped, and I think they relied on an inner metal frame as well (depending on the year, these frames were made out of aluminum or magnesium, I think, and presumably cast, but possibly stamped). This year's models are all sporting machined aluminum cases, and apparently have no inner frame to speak of (they call it "unibody" a la modern car designs). It appears the major components bolt more or less directly to the body. Web page here, including video of what may be actual manufacturing techniques and pictures of the bare case: http://www.apple.com/macbook/design.html It's a clever idea, and I can see benefits. But just watch that production video! How in the heck can they be doing CNC machining in a production-line fashion and be cost-competitive? I would have thought the cost and time (and manufacturing capacity?) would have been prohibitive. Anyone here have an insight as to how they're doing this without spending way more money than when they were molding cases out of plastic? I think these laptops are probably being made in the PRC, though there's a small chance this is a Taiwanese product. I mean, Apple's not crazy, so I assume this will all work, at least in theory, but when did machining costs and capacities get so cheap that they could conceive of milling out several million complex case designs every year? Cannot answer the question. Steve Jobs is smart, has a vision, and gets it done. He hires very smart people then challenges them. They all love what they are doing. -- Michael Press |
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aluminum machining? A q that is technical but not bicyclic
In article
, " wrote: On Oct 22, 7:32*am, wrote: Apple products are never cost competitive (at least on this side of the pond), A quick-grab, quick read look at notebook prices/features, Mac v. PC in the USA: http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do? command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9023959&pageNum ber=3 (Tiny for above): http://tinyurl.com/2aeqh9 That ignores factory-installed applications. I have no idea what's what with PC's these days, but the new Macs come with a pretty impressive collection of apps, including Time Machine (auto backup). but people buy them for various reasons. Superior user experience is up near the top of the list. Speaking of user experience, one reason I'm sure many computer buyers have recently "gone Mac" is the disaster that was Vista. (BTW: I've seen people say "they're the same thing" since Mac went to Intel. They're not. But I guess that flies in some quarters) I saw the video and I liked the idea of less parts and an exlusive, sturdy and beaatiful case of that laptop. It's like a titanium bicycle frame. God awful expensive compared with an cheap aluminum frame which does the same. Guessing the Alu Mac laptop will nestle into a favorable price niche, similar to the comparison above. Meanwhile, "have you seen any 'naked Alu' frames in the marketplace?", similar to the polished or brushed "naked Ti" offerings? That's why my daily driver is naked Ti, and brushed (not polished), at that. No paint or even "gloss" to worry about, and no corrosion problems, either. So, unless I bend or break it, the cost/mile comparison might well be favorable to Ti. (going on with the user experience thing): We've had a couple of G5 iMacs for what, two years, three now? And never have had to use the Restore discs even once a little bit (g). Not a "fair" comparison, maybe, but far, far superior to the old 98SE ("Sucks Extra") PC that the Macs replaced. "Windows will now re-size your desktop (Duck and Cover!)". And hey, if "they fixed Vista", which seems to be the unspoken thrust of the new ad blitz here in the USA, "Well, good, they really really NEEDED to fix Vista". (How humiliating-- or it should have been, anyhow-- when Dell was forced to offer retrofit of the previous OS in response to the mighty stink of Vista) Uh-oh: http://www.apple.com/getamac/ads/ Well... maybe they haven't fixed Vista after all! (No real surprise there; that's a family tradition going back to DOS) No matter. "I'm a Mac". It's still just a machine made by man, imperfect, but my troubles are mighty, mighty few. -- Is that your dog? -- Nope. I expected Microcsoft would get a robust operating system going by this time; am actually surprised that they have not. -- Michael Press Always used Macintosh computers. |
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aluminum machining? A q that is technical but not bicyclic
Michael Press wrote:
Steve Jobs is smart, has a vision, and gets it done. He hires very smart people then challenges them. They all love what they are doing. Except in technical support. This much I know. Chalo |
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