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Looking at 700C Tufo tires



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 3rd 08, 04:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Posts: 320
Default Looking at 700C Tufo tires

I found this website recently and was looking at their 'Tufo' tires.

http://www.everybicycletire.com/Default.asp

It seems that there is a 'tubular/clincher' model and wondered if you
have an opinion on this type of tire?

Lewis.

*****
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  #2  
Old November 3rd 08, 07:08 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Kinky Cowboy
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Posts: 378
Default Looking at 700C Tufo tires

On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 07:02:21 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

I found this website recently and was looking at their 'Tufo' tires.

http://www.everybicycletire.com/Default.asp

It seems that there is a 'tubular/clincher' model and wondered if you
have an opinion on this type of tire?


Noob or troll? :-)

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included
May contain traces of nuts
Your milage may vary
  #3  
Old November 3rd 08, 07:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
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Posts: 320
Default Looking at 700C Tufo tires

On Nov 3, 12:08*pm, Kinky Cowboy wrote:
On Mon, 3 Nov 2008 07:02:21 -0800 (PST), "

wrote:
I found this website recently and was looking at their 'Tufo' tires.


http://www.everybicycletire.com/Default.asp


It seems that there is a 'tubular/clincher' model and wondered if you
have an opinion on this type of tire?


Noob or troll? :-)

Kinky Cowboy*

*Batteries not included
May contain traces of nuts
Your milage may vary


And you must be a brain surgeon.

Lewis.

*****
  #4  
Old November 3rd 08, 07:49 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
bfd
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 487
Default Looking at 700C Tufo tires

On Nov 3, 7:02*am, " wrote:
I found this website recently and was looking at their 'Tufo' tires.

http://www.everybicycletire.com/Default.asp

It seems that there is a 'tubular/clincher' model and wondered if you
have an opinion on this type of tire?

I believe these are also known as "Open Tubulars." There's a similar
discussion going on at the Serotta board. Open Tubulars are described
as:

"Its basically a clincher tire with They are clinchers made using
methods used for tubulars. They take the casing (same stuff as for
tubs) and add a bead. The tread is then glued to the inflated casing.
I have been using Challenge open tubulars for a while, and they are
pretty nice."

Torelli has a decent description of what they a

http://www.torelli.com/tech/tires.shtml

Others call these tires nothing more than a marketing ploy to get
people to buy these type of clincher tires at a higher price.

I guess it comes down to what "advantage" do you get? True tubular
tires are supposedly rounder and lighter than comparable clinchers,
especially when you take into account the rims too. Do these "Open
Tubulars" have a "rounder" profile (for better handling)? Is it
lighter? If the answer is no to either, then its a waste of money.
However, if its a yes, then maybe there are some sort of advantage.

Also, I wonder if these tires are as easy to repair as clinchers? If
not, why not just get true tubular, and all of its "benefits?"


  #5  
Old November 3rd 08, 08:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,751
Default Looking at 700C Tufo tires

someone wrote:


I found this website recently and was looking at their 'Tufo'
tires.


http://www.everybicycletire.com/Default.asp

It seems that there is a 'tubular/clincher' model and wondered if
you have an opinion on this type of tire?


I believe these are also known as "Open Tubulars." There's a
similar discussion going on at the Serotta board. Open Tubulars are
described as:


"Its basically a clincher tire with They are clinchers made using
methods used for tubulars. They take the casing (same stuff as for
tubs) and add a bead. The tread is then glued to the inflated
casing. I have been using Challenge open tubulars for a while, and
they are pretty nice."


Torelli has a decent description of what they a

http://www.torelli.com/tech/tires.shtml

That's not clear and the description of how they are made even
unclearer.

You might look in the FAQ for how round tubular tires a

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/index.html

Others call these tires nothing more than a marketing ploy to get
people to buy these type of clincher tires at a higher price.


That's what bicycling is all about these days... marketing.

I guess it comes down to what "advantage" do you get? True tubular
tires are supposedly rounder and lighter than comparable clinchers,
especially when you take into account the rims too. Do these "Open
Tubulars" have a "rounder" profile (for better handling)? Is it
lighter? If the answer is no to either, then its a waste of money.
However, if its a yes, then maybe there are some sort of advantage.


I'm not sure what you mean by "rounder". Unless it's a belted radial
casing, its cross section is round from inflation pressure.

Also, I wonder if these tires are as easy to repair as clinchers?
If not, why not just get true tubular, and all of its "benefits?"


I didn't see a cross section on that web site. Can you direct me to
one?

Jobst Brandt
  #6  
Old November 3rd 08, 09:03 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Kerry Montgomery
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 676
Default Looking at 700C Tufo tires


wrote in message
...
someone wrote:


I found this website recently and was looking at their 'Tufo'
tires.


http://www.everybicycletire.com/Default.asp

It seems that there is a 'tubular/clincher' model and wondered if
you have an opinion on this type of tire?


I believe these are also known as "Open Tubulars." There's a
similar discussion going on at the Serotta board. Open Tubulars are
described as:


"Its basically a clincher tire with They are clinchers made using
methods used for tubulars. They take the casing (same stuff as for
tubs) and add a bead. The tread is then glued to the inflated
casing. I have been using Challenge open tubulars for a while, and
they are pretty nice."


Torelli has a decent description of what they a

http://www.torelli.com/tech/tires.shtml

That's not clear and the description of how they are made even
unclearer.

You might look in the FAQ for how round tubular tires a

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/index.html

Others call these tires nothing more than a marketing ploy to get
people to buy these type of clincher tires at a higher price.


That's what bicycling is all about these days... marketing.

I guess it comes down to what "advantage" do you get? True tubular
tires are supposedly rounder and lighter than comparable clinchers,
especially when you take into account the rims too. Do these "Open
Tubulars" have a "rounder" profile (for better handling)? Is it
lighter? If the answer is no to either, then its a waste of money.
However, if its a yes, then maybe there are some sort of advantage.


I'm not sure what you mean by "rounder". Unless it's a belted radial
casing, its cross section is round from inflation pressure.

Also, I wonder if these tires are as easy to repair as clinchers?
If not, why not just get true tubular, and all of its "benefits?"


I didn't see a cross section on that web site. Can you direct me to
one?

Jobst Brandt


Here's a link to Tufo site showing a cross section of their tubular
clincher (which looks like a tubular with beads added):
http://www.tufonorthamerica.com/tiretypes.php
"Open tubular" doesn't mean the Tufo style tire to everyone, here's a link
to DedaT
http://www.dedatre.com/rsc_en.php
Unfortunately, it doesn't show a cross section, but I have some of these
tires - they are clincher tires, just supposedly made with the same high
standards and thread count as tubulars.
Here is a link showing a cross section of the DedaTRE - it's the 5th item
down the page:
http://tinyurl.com/5fulk8

Kerry


  #7  
Old November 3rd 08, 09:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
bfd
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 487
Default Looking at 700C Tufo tires

On Nov 3, 11:32*am, wrote:
I didn't see a cross section on that web site. *Can you direct me to
one?

Here's the only picture I've found of the Challenge "Open tubular"
ti

http://tinyurl.com/562n9m

Here's my favorite description of these tires (marketing, ya gotta luv
it!)

"The Challenge Criterium Nerone Clincher is a handmade open tubular
that rides… like a tubular. Like a Clement tubular. Clement tubulars.
Those two words used to leave racers speechless. The Criterium Seta
was considered by many the acme of quality, the tires you saved for
race days, the tires that were stored covered and airless for hopes of
extending their useful life, the tires you lovingly washed after each
race, air dried, and then packed away again.

Clement was bought by Pirelli and they moved everything to Thailand.
Rubber comes from Thailand, so they, and many tire makers, figured
they'd save money by making tires near the source. And, like many
conglomerates, Pirelli realized that the bike world is not a huge
business. They folded the Clement operation.

Like a phoenix, Challenge tires rose from the ashes of those Thai
facilities. Between the Italian distributor and the Thai
manufacturers, they resurrected the tires. Like the good old days, the
tires are still handmade. Also, like the good old days, the legendary
tread is still glued by hand to the casing after the casing has been
tensioned. Many believe that a tread made separate from casing rides
better and with less rolling resistance because it doesn't get
deformed by the inflation of the tire.

The Criterium Nerone Clincher utilizes the same tread as both the
legendary and contemporary Criterium Seta. Longitudinal ribs down the
center, with herringbone on either side. In keeping up with the times,
Challenge offers the tires both as tubulars and open tubulars. "Open"
meaning the casing isn't stitched to itself like a sew-up, i.e. an
open tubular is a clincher. Challenge has also eschewed the cotton
casing for polyester. The casing is still corespun, resulting in a
thin, light, flexible case that is super-supple. The thread count is
300 threads per inch (TPI), which in cycling circles is considered a
fine casing. Also keeping up with the times, the sidewalls are colored
black (Nerone) instead of the traditional tan (or "natural").

To give the tire better flat protection, a thin 300TPI corespun
polyester belt, the same material that makes the casing, is glued
above the casing and below the tread. It is also glued on when the
casing is under pressure. They call this their Puncture Protection
System (PPS), giving a little more protection under the tread while
leaving the sidewalls thin and supple.

The Challenge Criterium Nerone Clincher is an open tubular design. The
tire measures 700 x 23mm wide. It has Challenge's Puncture Protection
System (PPS). The casing is corespun polyester. The beads are made
from Kevlar. The tire casing has 300 threads per inch (TPI). The tire
has a Black tread and Black casing. The weight is 210g."

Come on, all-black, 300 tpi, 210g, and a Puncture Protection System
(PPS), what's not to like?
  #8  
Old November 3rd 08, 10:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,751
Default Looking at 700C Tufo tires

Kerry Montgomery wrote:

I found this website recently and was looking at their 'Tufo'
tires.


http://www.everybicycletire.com/Default.asp

It seems that there is a 'tubular/clincher' model and wondered if
you have an opinion on this type of tire?


I believe these are also known as "Open Tubulars." There's a
similar discussion going on at the Serotta board. Open Tubulars are
described as:


"Its basically a clincher tire with They are clinchers made using
methods used for tubulars. They take the casing (same stuff as for
tubs) and add a bead. The tread is then glued to the inflated
casing. I have been using Challenge open tubulars for a while, and
they are pretty nice."


Torelli has a decent description of what they a


http://www.torelli.com/tech/tires.shtml

That's not clear and the description of how they are made even
unclearer.


You might look in the FAQ for how round tubular tires a


http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/index.html

Others call these tires nothing more than a marketing ploy to get
people to buy these type of clincher tires at a higher price.


That's what bicycling is all about these days... marketing.


I guess it comes down to what "advantage" do you get? True tubular
tires are supposedly rounder and lighter than comparable clinchers,
especially when you take into account the rims too. Do these "Open
Tubulars" have a "rounder" profile (for better handling)? Is it
lighter? If the answer is no to either, then its a waste of money.
However, if its a yes, then maybe there are some sort of advantage.


I'm not sure what you mean by "rounder". Unless it's a belted radial
casing, its cross section is round from inflation pressure.


Also, I wonder if these tires are as easy to repair as clinchers?
If not, why not just get true tubular, and all of its "benefits?"


I didn't see a cross section on that web site. Can you direct me to
one?


Here's a link to Tufo site showing a cross section of their tubular
clincher (which looks like a tubular with beads added):


http://www.tufonorthamerica.com/tiretypes.php

I suspect this is artists rendition allowance, there being no visible
seam in this tire and no way of making it as an endless toroidal
tube. I doubt that they have such a beast, but then no one has shown
me one either.

"Open tubular" doesn't mean the Tufo style tire to everyone, here's a link
to DedaT


http://www.dedatre.com/rsc_en.php

That doesn't do much more than not show how it is done.

Unfortunately, it doesn't show a cross section, but I have some of these
tires - they are clincher tires, just supposedly made with the same high
standards and thread count as tubulars.


Here is a link showing a cross section of the DedaTRE - it's the 5th item
down the page:


http://tinyurl.com/5fulk8

No cigar!

Maybe you can describe how the casing is closed after inserting the
tube and how the seam looks. Do you have one of the rim strips shown in:

http://www.dedatre.com/flap_en.php

Jobst Brandt
  #9  
Old November 3rd 08, 10:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,751
Default Looking at 700C Tufo tires

someone wrote:

I didn't see a cross section on that web site. Â*Can you direct me
to one?


Here's the only picture I've found of the Challenge "Open tubular"
ti


http://tinyurl.com/562n9m

Here's my favorite description of these tires (marketing, ya gotta
luv it!)


"The Challenge Criterium Nerone Clincher is a handmade open tubular
that rides… like a tubular. Like a Clement tubular. Clement
tubulars. Those two words used to leave racers speechless. The
Criterium Seta was considered by many the acme of quality, the tires
you saved for race days, the tires that were stored covered and
airless for hopes of extending their useful life, the tires you
lovingly washed after each race, air dried, and then packed away
again.


Clement was bought by Pirelli and they moved everything to Thailand.
Rubber comes from Thailand, so they, and many tire makers, figured
they'd save money by making tires near the source. And, like many
conglomerates, Pirelli realized that the bike world is not a huge
business. They folded the Clement operation.


Like a phoenix, Challenge tires rose from the ashes of those Thai
facilities. Between the Italian distributor and the Thai
manufacturers, they resurrected the tires. Like the good old days,
the tires are still handmade. Also, like the good old days, the
legendary tread is still glued by hand to the casing after the
casing has been tensioned. Many believe that a tread made separate
from casing rides better and with less rolling resistance because it
doesn't get deformed by the inflation of the tire.


The Criterium Nerone Clincher utilizes the same tread as both the
legendary and contemporary Criterium Seta. Longitudinal ribs down
the center, with herringbone on either side. In keeping up with the
times, Challenge offers the tires both as tubulars and open
tubulars. "Open" meaning the casing isn't stitched to itself like a
sew-up, i.e. an open tubular is a clincher. Challenge has also
eschewed the cotton casing for polyester. The casing is still
corespun, resulting in a thin, light, flexible case that is
super-supple. The thread count is 300 threads per inch (TPI), which
in cycling circles is considered a fine casing. Also keeping up
with the times, the sidewalls are colored black (Nerone) instead of
the traditional tan (or "natural").


To give the tire better flat protection, a thin 300TPI corespun
polyester belt, the same material that makes the casing, is glued
above the casing and below the tread. It is also glued on when the
casing is under pressure. They call this their Puncture Protection
System (PPS), giving a little more protection under the tread while
leaving the sidewalls thin and supple.


The Challenge Criterium Nerone Clincher is an open tubular design.
The tire measures 700 x 23mm wide. It has Challenge's Puncture
Protection System (PPS). The casing is corespun polyester. The
beads are made from Kevlar. The tire casing has 300 threads per
inch (TPI). The tire has a Black tread and Black casing. The
weight is 210g."


Come on, all-black, 300 TPI, 210g, and a Puncture Protection System
(PPS), what's not to like?


What is this "core spun" jargon, an how do they come upon 300 TPI?
That requires a thread of 0.00333" diameter and makes sidewalls 0.070"
thick. That's the thickness of a couple of sheets of copier paper.

Jobst Brandt
  #10  
Old November 3rd 08, 10:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
bfd
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 487
Default Looking at 700C Tufo tires

On Nov 3, 1:28*pm, wrote:
someone wrote:
I didn't see a cross section on that web site. *Can you direct me
to one?

Here's the only picture I've found of the Challenge "Open tubular"
ti


*http://tinyurl.com/562n9m





Here's my favorite description of these tires (marketing, ya gotta
luv it!)
"The Challenge Criterium Nerone Clincher is a handmade open tubular
that rides… like a tubular. Like a Clement tubular. Clement
tubulars. *Those two words used to leave racers speechless. The
Criterium Seta was considered by many the acme of quality, the tires
you saved for race days, the tires that were stored covered and
airless for hopes of extending their useful life, the tires you
lovingly washed after each race, air dried, and then packed away
again.
Clement was bought by Pirelli and they moved everything to Thailand.
Rubber comes from Thailand, so they, and many tire makers, figured
they'd save money by making tires near the source. *And, like many
conglomerates, Pirelli realized that the bike world is not a huge
business. *They folded the Clement operation.
Like a phoenix, Challenge tires rose from the ashes of those Thai
facilities. *Between the Italian distributor and the Thai
manufacturers, they resurrected the tires. *Like the good old days,
the tires are still handmade. *Also, like the good old days, the
legendary tread is still glued by hand to the casing after the
casing has been tensioned. *Many believe that a tread made separate
from casing rides better and with less rolling resistance because it
doesn't get deformed by the inflation of the tire.
The Criterium Nerone Clincher utilizes the same tread as both the
legendary and contemporary Criterium Seta. *Longitudinal ribs down
the center, with herringbone on either side. *In keeping up with the
times, Challenge offers the tires both as tubulars and open
tubulars. *"Open" meaning the casing isn't stitched to itself like a
sew-up, i.e. *an open tubular is a clincher. *Challenge has also
eschewed the cotton casing for polyester. *The casing is still
corespun, resulting in a thin, light, flexible case that is
super-supple. *The thread count is 300 threads per inch (TPI), which
in cycling circles is considered a fine casing. *Also keeping up
with the times, the sidewalls are colored black (Nerone) instead of
the traditional tan (or "natural").
To give the tire better flat protection, a thin 300TPI corespun
polyester belt, the same material that makes the casing, is glued
above the casing and below the tread. *It is also glued on when the
casing is under pressure. *They call this their Puncture Protection
System (PPS), giving a little more protection under the tread while
leaving the sidewalls thin and supple.
The Challenge Criterium Nerone Clincher is an open tubular design.
The tire measures 700 x 23mm wide. *It has Challenge's Puncture
Protection System (PPS). *The casing is corespun polyester. *The
beads are made from Kevlar. *The tire casing has 300 threads per
inch (TPI). *The tire has a Black tread and Black casing. *The
weight is 210g."
Come on, all-black, 300 TPI, 210g, and a Puncture Protection System
(PPS), what's not to like?


What is this "core spun" jargon, an how do they come upon 300 TPI?
That requires a thread of 0.00333" diameter and makes sidewalls 0.070"
thick. *That's the thickness of a couple of sheets of copier paper.

Well, if you read the text closely, you'll see that "corespun" is one
word! Further, it is defined as (my favorite), "resulting in a thin,
light, flexible case that is super-supple."

Obviously, you failed to take any marketing classes in college.
Therefore, "NO SOUP FOR YOU!"
 




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