Octalink ES25 replacement?

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 11:00:32 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

The BB on my MTB makes a ticking sound when warmed up, sounds similar to
a hot car engine after it is turned off. It has also develoved an ever
so slight play, just a few mils. It is an Shimano ES25 Octalink.

How long do you guys let that go before replacing?

Can anyone recommend a better quality BB for this that lasts longer than
5k miles and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

I see Octalink bottom brackets for sale for four British pounds :-)
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/c...t/rp-prod34653
About $5.00.

Although I also notice that Amazon wants 20-odd dollars for one and
e-bay has them for about $18.00

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 2017-08-11 16:52, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 11:00:32 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

The BB on my MTB makes a ticking sound when warmed up, sounds similar to
a hot car engine after it is turned off. It has also develoved an ever
so slight play, just a few mils. It is an Shimano ES25 Octalink.

How long do you guys let that go before replacing?

Can anyone recommend a better quality BB for this that lasts longer than
5k miles and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

I see Octalink bottom brackets for sale for four British pounds :-)
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/c...t/rp-prod34653
About $5.00.


I saw that as well. It's a clearance item in an odd diameter. $6.99 when
clicking the link in the US. I guess in new-speak that's called "target
group pricing" or something similar :-)


Although I also notice that Amazon wants 20-odd dollars for one and
e-bay has them for about $18.00


Yep. No problem to just buy one but considering the paltry service life
I would like to know whether there is something better than ES25 at
reasonable cost. Meaning not necessarily a $200+ Phil Woods BB.

I think I've got time. The current BB should hang on another 500-1000mi
until it screeches.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 8/11/2017 6:59 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 16:52, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 11:00:32 -0700, Joerg

wrote:

The BB on my MTB makes a ticking sound when warmed up,
sounds similar to
a hot car engine after it is turned off. It has also
develoved an ever
so slight play, just a few mils. It is an Shimano ES25
Octalink.

How long do you guys let that go before replacing?

Can anyone recommend a better quality BB for this that
lasts longer than
5k miles and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

I see Octalink bottom brackets for sale for four British
pounds :-)
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/c...t/rp-prod34653

About $5.00.


I saw that as well. It's a clearance item in an odd
diameter. $6.99 when clicking the link in the US. I guess in
new-speak that's called "target group pricing" or something
similar :-)


Although I also notice that Amazon wants 20-odd dollars
for one and
e-bay has them for about $18.00


Yep. No problem to just buy one but considering the paltry
service life I would like to know whether there is something
better than ES25 at reasonable cost. Meaning not necessarily
a $200+ Phil Woods BB.

I think I've got time. The current BB should hang on another
500-1000mi until it screeches.


Mr Slocumb tried to be helpful with a rough US value.
Today's price of 4.00 Sterling alone is US$5.20:
http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/...rom=GBP&To=USD

Plus US$1.79 delivery! Your delivered price is cheaper than
your cost of postage alone on a BB to England. Get two.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:02:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-11 15:55, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 4:26 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 14:00, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 3:04 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 12:39, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 1:00 PM, Joerg wrote:
The BB on my MTB makes a ticking sound when warmed up,
sounds similar to a hot car engine after it is turned off.
It has also develoved an ever so slight play, just a few
mils. It is an Shimano ES25 Octalink.

How long do you guys let that go before replacing?

Can anyone recommend a better quality BB for this that
lasts
longer than 5k miles and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?


Ensure the arms are not loose on the spindle first.


They are on tight. The play is also a bit sideways. If I
keep riding will it just become gradually worse or can it
fail catastrophically in the middle of nowhere?

On my last Shimano 600 BB I rode until it had about 0.1"
play in the largest chain ring and shifting trim became iffy
(old friction shifter bike). But that was an ajustable BB
where I could milk out a second life by mounting the cranks
180 degrees rotated.

What I don't like on these newfangled BBs is the left side
plastic cup. For the road bike I got a UN-55, only aluminum
on the left but at least not plastic.


Since it's shot and since you dislike low quality bearings
and nylon
cups, Tom Kunich is right; get a better quality version
of it.


The BB-5500 Tom suggested doesn't come in the same spindle
length. Which better one could replace the ES25 and is
compatible? The ES300 looks like it also has a plastic cap
on the left.


What length? The 5500 goes to 118mm besides the regular 110mm and 113mm.


The ES25 comes in 113mm and 121mm. I haven't taken it apart yet, wanted
to do that when I know what to buy and then order immediately after
disassembly, to minimize downtime.

I've seen the ES25 advertised in 113, 118 and 126 widths.

The BB-5500 I could only find in 109.5mm and 118mm. There were also
warnings that the spindle only accommodates older 9-speed group set cranks:

https://www.excelsports.com/main.asp...or=1&minor= 6

Quote "The pipe-billet spindle has eight 9mm deep splines and only fits
older Shimano cranks - many of the 9 speed 105 (not all), Ultegra and
Dura-Ace variety". I have a Deore M522 crank set on the MTB.

I've found that there are differences in Shimano stuff that appear at
first glance to be the exact same part. I bought a 50 tooth chain
ring, after carefully checking the bolt ring diameter, for a Tiagra
crank set. The new "105" chain ring appeared in the shop to be the
same as the Tiagra (with 2 fewer teeth, of course ) but when I came to
install it I found that the outer curves of the "spokes" was not the
same and while it fitted, and worked, it looked a bit odd.

Since then I've made it a point to limit my Shimano parts buying to
buying the correct model parts :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:59:50 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-11 16:52, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 11:00:32 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

The BB on my MTB makes a ticking sound when warmed up, sounds similar to
a hot car engine after it is turned off. It has also develoved an ever
so slight play, just a few mils. It is an Shimano ES25 Octalink.

How long do you guys let that go before replacing?

Can anyone recommend a better quality BB for this that lasts longer than
5k miles and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

I see Octalink bottom brackets for sale for four British pounds :-)
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/c...t/rp-prod34653
About $5.00.


I saw that as well. It's a clearance item in an odd diameter. $6.99 when
clicking the link in the US. I guess in new-speak that's called "target
group pricing" or something similar :-)


I believe in the grocery store marketing it is called a "loss Leader".

Although I also notice that Amazon wants 20-odd dollars for one and
e-bay has them for about $18.00


Yep. No problem to just buy one but considering the paltry service life
I would like to know whether there is something better than ES25 at
reasonable cost. Meaning not necessarily a $200+ Phil Woods BB.

Well, Chain Reaction has the ES25 BB for sterling 3.99 and the ES51
for 23.49 so you can change five ES25 BB's for the price of one ES51
:-)

I also see an ES300 for $16.68 and there are also Shimano Dura-Ace
Octalink BB's and although I don't know whether they fit, Dura-Ace is
usually considered as very high quality.


I think I've got time. The current BB should hang on another 500-1000mi
until it screeches.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 2017-08-11 19:38, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:02:43 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-11 15:55, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 4:26 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 14:00, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 3:04 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 12:39, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 1:00 PM, Joerg wrote:
The BB on my MTB makes a ticking sound when warmed up,
sounds similar to a hot car engine after it is turned off.
It has also develoved an ever so slight play, just a few
mils. It is an Shimano ES25 Octalink.

How long do you guys let that go before replacing?

Can anyone recommend a better quality BB for this that
lasts
longer than 5k miles and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?


Ensure the arms are not loose on the spindle first.


They are on tight. The play is also a bit sideways. If I
keep riding will it just become gradually worse or can it
fail catastrophically in the middle of nowhere?

On my last Shimano 600 BB I rode until it had about 0.1"
play in the largest chain ring and shifting trim became iffy
(old friction shifter bike). But that was an ajustable BB
where I could milk out a second life by mounting the cranks
180 degrees rotated.

What I don't like on these newfangled BBs is the left side
plastic cup. For the road bike I got a UN-55, only aluminum
on the left but at least not plastic.


Since it's shot and since you dislike low quality bearings
and nylon
cups, Tom Kunich is right; get a better quality version
of it.


The BB-5500 Tom suggested doesn't come in the same spindle
length. Which better one could replace the ES25 and is
compatible? The ES300 looks like it also has a plastic cap
on the left.


What length? The 5500 goes to 118mm besides the regular 110mm and 113mm.


The ES25 comes in 113mm and 121mm. I haven't taken it apart yet, wanted
to do that when I know what to buy and then order immediately after
disassembly, to minimize downtime.

I've seen the ES25 advertised in 113, 118 and 126 widths.


That is weird, never seen that here in the US. Maybe there is a Thai
model and a US model :-)


The BB-5500 I could only find in 109.5mm and 118mm. There were also
warnings that the spindle only accommodates older 9-speed group set cranks:

https://www.excelsports.com/main.asp...or=1&minor= 6

Quote "The pipe-billet spindle has eight 9mm deep splines and only fits
older Shimano cranks - many of the 9 speed 105 (not all), Ultegra and
Dura-Ace variety". I have a Deore M522 crank set on the MTB.

I've found that there are differences in Shimano stuff that appear at
first glance to be the exact same part. I bought a 50 tooth chain
ring, after carefully checking the bolt ring diameter, for a Tiagra
crank set. The new "105" chain ring appeared in the shop to be the
same as the Tiagra (with 2 fewer teeth, of course ) but when I came to
install it I found that the outer curves of the "spokes" was not the
same and while it fitted, and worked, it looked a bit odd.

Since then I've made it a point to limit my Shimano parts buying to
buying the correct model parts :-)


I never cared about the aesthetics of my bikes. As long as it could be
made to fit and work with acceptable reliability it was ok. Which has
also meant using non-bicycle parts on bicycles because those are almost
by default more reliable.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 11/08/17 22:04, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 12:39, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 1:00 PM, Joerg wrote:
The BB on my MTB makes a ticking sound when warmed up, sounds
similar to a hot car engine after it is turned off. It has also
develoved an ever so slight play, just a few mils. It is an
Shimano ES25 Octalink.

How long do you guys let that go before replacing?

Can anyone recommend a better quality BB for this that lasts
longer than 5k miles and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?


Ensure the arms are not loose on the spindle first.


They are on tight. The play is also a bit sideways. If I keep riding
will it just become gradually worse or can it fail catastrophically
in the middle of nowhere?

On my last Shimano 600 BB I rode until it had about 0.1" play in the
largest chain ring and shifting trim became iffy (old friction
shifter bike). But that was an ajustable BB where I could milk out a
second life by mounting the cranks 180 degrees rotated.

What I don't like on these newfangled BBs is the left side plastic
cup. For the road bike I got a UN-55, only aluminum on the left but
at least not plastic.

The UN-55 is the Canine Wobblers of BBs imho. Cottered, Octalink,
Outboard, have all failed me over the years, but never a UN-55. Ok,
they do eventually wear out with year long commuting, but I reckon on
10-15k miles. That said, the last was on the 10K side of things. Bit
disappointed tbh, but the Shimano outboard ones I used to change
annually and I had stability issues with the Octalink. That said, I
still do have one Octalink, and it seems ok and 3k miles, but them's is
dry miles...

On 2017-08-11 17:11, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 6:59 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 16:52, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 11:00:32 -0700, Joerg

wrote:

The BB on my MTB makes a ticking sound when warmed up,
sounds similar to
a hot car engine after it is turned off. It has also
develoved an ever
so slight play, just a few mils. It is an Shimano ES25
Octalink.

How long do you guys let that go before replacing?

Can anyone recommend a better quality BB for this that
lasts longer than
5k miles and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

I see Octalink bottom brackets for sale for four British
pounds :-)
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/c...t/rp-prod34653


About $5.00.


I saw that as well. It's a clearance item in an odd
diameter. $6.99 when clicking the link in the US. I guess in
new-speak that's called "target group pricing" or something
similar :-)


Although I also notice that Amazon wants 20-odd dollars
for one and
e-bay has them for about $18.00


Yep. No problem to just buy one but considering the paltry
service life I would like to know whether there is something
better than ES25 at reasonable cost. Meaning not necessarily
a $200+ Phil Woods BB.

I think I've got time. The current BB should hang on another
500-1000mi until it screeches.


Mr Slocumb tried to be helpful with a rough US value.
Today's price of 4.00 Sterling alone is US$5.20:
http://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/...rom=GBP&To=USD

Plus US$1.79 delivery! Your delivered price is cheaper than your cost of
postage alone on a BB to England. Get two.


However, 73mm won't fit which is all they've got and then I'd only have
two paper weights.

But yes, if I can't find anything better than ES25 or ES300 I'll get two
and consider them yet another fast-wear items, along with tires, chains,
cassettes and brake pads.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 11:56:37 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 11:48, wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 11:00:27 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
The BB on my MTB makes a ticking sound when warmed up, sounds similar to
a hot car engine after it is turned off. It has also develoved an ever
so slight play, just a few mils. It is an Shimano ES25 Octalink.

How long do you guys let that go before replacing?

Can anyone recommend a better quality BB for this that lasts longer than
5k miles and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Shimano-BB-5....c100506.m3226

Cost three times what the ES25 does and I've never had one fail.


$40 is perfectly ok. Unfortunately their available spindle lengths do
not fit the ES25. ES300 has very close to the same spindle lengths, I
just don't know whether they are any better than ES25.

I believe that the widest available in the ES-25 is 121. The 5500 is available in a 118 and it's my guess that it would fit right on.

On 2017-08-11 19:59, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 16:59:50 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2017-08-11 16:52, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 11:00:32 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

The BB on my MTB makes a ticking sound when warmed up, sounds similar to
a hot car engine after it is turned off. It has also develoved an ever
so slight play, just a few mils. It is an Shimano ES25 Octalink.

How long do you guys let that go before replacing?

Can anyone recommend a better quality BB for this that lasts longer than
5k miles and doesn't cost an arm and a leg?

I see Octalink bottom brackets for sale for four British pounds :-)
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/c...t/rp-prod34653
About $5.00.


I saw that as well. It's a clearance item in an odd diameter. $6.99 when
clicking the link in the US. I guess in new-speak that's called "target
group pricing" or something similar :-)


I believe in the grocery store marketing it is called a "loss Leader".


I meant different prices for different regions or people. One big player
recently got into trouble for that which netted them a not-so-honorary
mention in the Wall Street Journal.

Then there is dynamic pricing where if you click too often on an item
its price suddenly ratchets up. I immediately head to a competitor if
any store does that to me.



Although I also notice that Amazon wants 20-odd dollars for one and
e-bay has them for about $18.00


Yep. No problem to just buy one but considering the paltry service life
I would like to know whether there is something better than ES25 at
reasonable cost. Meaning not necessarily a $200+ Phil Woods BB.

Well, Chain Reaction has the ES25 BB for sterling 3.99 and the ES51
for 23.49 so you can change five ES25 BB's for the price of one ES51
:-)


I don't care if it's $10, $20 or $30. As long as it fits and I don't
have to change those things like underwear.


I also see an ES300 for $16.68 and there are also Shimano Dura-Ace
Octalink BB's and although I don't know whether they fit, Dura-Ace is
usually considered as very high quality.


It may be time to write to Shimano, hoping they'll answer. To me this
flurry of model numbers is confusing and not all are 100% compatible.
The cranks have to fit and the chain line should remain roughly the same.

I was hoping that someone had the same issue with paltry ES25 lifetime
and could tell me "Here, buy that one, lasts a lot longer" (and where it
fits well).

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/