A Cycling & bikes forum. CycleBanter.com

Go Back   Home » CycleBanter.com forum » rec.bicycles » Techniques
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old August 12th 17, 08:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,453
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On 2017-08-12 12:03, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 10:31:51 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 17:45, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 7:23 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/11/2017 8:00 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/11/2017 5:55 PM, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 15:05, sms wrote:
https://bikesiliconvalley.org/wp-content/uploads/170808-5B-Alta-Level-of-Traffic-Stress-Knowles.pdf





This was one of the presentations at the Silicon Valley
Bicycle
Coalition Bike Summit.

Slide 6 is especially telling. No surprise that the U.S.
has the lowest
number of bicycle travel in terms of distance, and the
highest death rate.


No surprise to me whatsoever. I lived in three of those
countries, Germany, Netherlands and US and can see why the
numbers on slide 6 are what they are.

When I had to ride from where I lived in the Netherlands
(Vaals) to Maastricht I could pretty much set my 12-speed
bike on the bike path, put it in 12th gear and hammer those
20 miles. I did the same distance here (Cameron Park to
Folsom) yesterday for an errand. Aside from mixing in with
fast traffic at times which some potentially interested
cyclists don't like I also had to hack it across a dirt
field for half a mile, including crossing a muddy creek and
lifting the bike over some low fences. Hardly anyone would
be willing to do the latter. On the way back it was mostly
along a county road with 55mph traffic, ok but not
exactly fun.


But there's no end to that argument.

People who live at a bus stop and work at another think
buses are wonderful. But resources are finite and so for
some people they are merely inconvenient but for most
people buses are not useful in any way.

I have a couple friends who do like buses. I rode yesterday
with a guy who likes to use the bus to get out toward a
distant bike trail. But when we first moved to town and had
just one car, I looked into riding a bus the seven or so
miles to work. It would have taken far longer than just
biking the whole way.

But for most people, I think this Onion article is accurate:
http://www.theonion.com/article/repo...ublic-tra-1434



"Take the bus. I'll be glad you did." ;-)


Yes, that's one of their all-time best.

My point, though, is that a paved kiddie path from every residence to
every destination is ridiculous.


Those are not kiddie paths and they do almost go from residence to
destination in the Netherlands. The only way to experience this is to
actually stay there a few weeks and ride all the time.

When I worked in Hengelo we rented a house sight-unseen and split the
cost between four people. When I got there it turned out to have a bike
path right in front and the company also had a bike path system
connector straight into a massive bicycle parking lot. At one section we
had three lanes on the bike path while car drivers only had two. Having
grown up in Germany I was pleasantly surprised but the three others who
grew up in the Netherlands considered that to be normal.

You don't need it to every house. Folsom is an example how to do it
correctly. They have built a network of bike paths going through nearly
all residential and many commercial areas. Most destinations require a
few hundred yards of street riding but that is on low-traffic streets.
Except in some inner city areas but the very skittish could always hop
off and push the bike on a sidewalk for a few yards (I always ride in
the street).


Stevenage and Milton Keynes and other "new towns" in Britain are also
examples of how to do it correctly. One can bicycle from anywhere to anywhere
without interacting with cars. Except almost nobody bothers. It's easier
to drive.


There are communities that do the implementation correctly and there are
those which don't. Constantly lamenting the latter is not helpful. One
has to look at the successful ones and there are whole countries who
were successful. Stop criticizing everything and book a nice long
bicycle vacation in the Netherlands. Or Denmark.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
Ads
  #22  
Old August 12th 17, 08:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,183
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 7:45:41 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 16:52, sms wrote:
On 8/11/2017 4:37 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 6:54:57 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
Snipped

When I had to ride from where I lived in the Netherlands (Vaals) to
Maastricht I could pretty much set my 12-speed bike on the bike path,
put it in 12th gear and hammer those 20 miles. I did the same distance
here (Cameron Park to Folsom) yesterday for an errand. Aside from mixing
in with fast traffic at times which some potentially interested cyclists
don't like I also had to hack it across a dirt field for half a mile,
including crossing a muddy creek and lifting the bike over some low
fences. Hardly anyone would be willing to do the latter. On the way back
it was mostly along a county road with 55mph traffic, ok but not exactly
fun.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Lifting a bike over low fences? Sounds a lot like trespassing onto
private land.

What is it with you that you have such difficulty riding where so
mqany others ride without fear? Oh I know, a fw others share your
fears and thus bicycvling is extremely dangerous.


In the area Joerg is referring to, the issue is that not many others
ride, because of fear of riding on US50, a legitimate fear.
.


Bicycles are not allowed on Hwy 50, that's the key problem. If you want
to go to Intel, Kaiser, Costco, Home Depot et cetera the only way is to
hack it across a field, he

https://goo.gl/maps/RZyYFr7MCTT2

There is now a gate and various habitat fences. I guess they are fixing
to put in developments and a road. Meaning the ride will be over soon.
The only alternative is White Rock Road which is close to suicidal for a
cyclist. Well, then I'll use the car until they are done, after which
hopefully that new road with have a bike lane because it's going to be a
race track.


I would never move to a place like that if I was interested in
transportational cycling.


Sometimes it's good to move somewhere and then help estabishing a
cycling culture, also pushing for an infrastructure. Else it'll never
get expanded.

For cyclists we already have much better options than we did 5-10 years
ago. However, one must be able to handle a mountain bike.

http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/CoachLane1.JPG

We can now ride all the way to Walmart, brewpubs and other places in
Placerville on mostly dirt roads and singletrack though some of it isn't
for the faint of heart. Works for me. I simply adjusted my spending of
money to businesses that can be reached that way. Heck, even one of my
clients and a software engineer I network with are located directly on
that trail.

The downside is that I am going through a lot of rear tires. Oh well.


Another problem is that when they finish you have to know how to find your way through residential areas to find the bike paths. The north side of Mt. Diablo is that way. Also I went with a group up Twin Peaks in San Francisco and damn if I can find the way again since those are service roads and not public.
  #23  
Old August 12th 17, 08:20 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,183
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 8:00:45 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 10:45:41 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
Snipped
We can now ride all the way to Walmart, brewpubs and other places in
Placerville on mostly dirt roads and singletrack though some of it isn't
for the faint of heart. Works for me. I simply adjusted my spending of
money to businesses that can be reached that way. Heck, even one of my
clients and a software engineer I network with are located directly on
that trail.

The downside is that I am going through a lot of rear tires. Oh well.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/


I can ride all the way from London Ontario Canada to Ottawa Ontario Canada and i can do it without going onto dirt roads or bicycle paths/trails if I want to. There are many, many places in Ontario Canada where i can ride a bicycle too without having to use bicycle paths or trails.

I find many bicycle lanes, paths and trails to be very hazardous to use due to their extremely poor design (poor sight lines for example; being in the door zone, or being on the right side of a right turning motor vehicle lane) or because they are MUP/MUT.

If I were to ride only in designated bicycle lanes or one segregated bicycle paths then I'd be doing very little bicycling because we don not have segregated bicycle paths here and for that I'm very thankful. I can hop on my bicycle and go to where I want to be (even if it''s a hundred plus miles away) by using, GASP!, paved roads shared with motor vehicles.

Maybe YOU need segregated bicycling facilities in order to ride your bicycle but thousands of us do not nor do we constantly push for such segregated facilities.


In San Francisco in many places where there are "bicycle lanes" I've watched someone in an SUV open a door which extended far beyond the bike lane.
  #24  
Old August 12th 17, 08:22 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,183
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 11:03:59 AM UTC-7, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 15:55:02 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

lifting the bike over some low
fences


Exactly how low? I don't think I could lift my bike over a fence much
above knee high, and I can't think of a use for a fence that low --
confining turtles? A symbolic boundary marker?

Of course I *am* seventy-six, female, and have a damaged rotator cuff.
But there is also the problem of getting *me* over the fence without
damaging it. When I was eight, I could climb a fence at the corner
post, but at a hundred and sixty-eight pounds, fence-climbing is right
out, unless it is built like a ladder. I think I *have* seen a board
panel in a wire fence, but can't remember when and where.


Joy, with all the racks and bags you carry Godzilla couldn't lift your bike over a low fence.
  #25  
Old August 12th 17, 08:24 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,183
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 12:02:34 PM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-12 10:03, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 15:55:02 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

lifting the bike over some low
fences


Exactly how low? I don't think I could lift my bike over a fence much
above knee high, and I can't think of a use for a fence that low --
confining turtles? A symbolic boundary marker?


About 2ft, those orange habitat delimiters. There is construction
pending and they want to keep the bulldozers out of that. As usual,
hikers and cyclist are of zero importance to those folks. This is why it
is good that we have rules in most jurisdictions around here that bike
lanes or paths must be built when new developments go in. Folsom often
even requires class I. If they didn't then the builders would not spend
one red cent on that.


Of course I *am* seventy-six, female, and have a damaged rotator cuff.
But there is also the problem of getting *me* over the fence without
damaging it. When I was eight, I could climb a fence at the corner
post, but at a hundred and sixty-eight pounds, fence-climbing is right
out, unless it is built like a ladder. I think I *have* seen a board
panel in a wire fence, but can't remember when and where.


I am a tad heavier but I have no problem lifting a bike and myself over
a regular cattle fence. Sometimes that is needed when a gate is
recalcitrant (but without trespassing). Or when I have to climb over to
open a latch from the inside to get a runaway farm animal back in.

Chronic rotator cuff issues can prevent that but other than that it's
mostly a matter of training. Being female shouldn't make a difference.
My sister was always the better tree climber compared to us boys.


I will say that around here the road crews are as polite and considerate as possible. Of course they do have a job to complete within their contracted time.
  #26  
Old August 12th 17, 08:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,453
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On 2017-08-12 12:08, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 10:45:41 AM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 16:52, sms wrote:


I would never move to a place like that if I was interested in
transportational cycling.


Indeed. I chose my residence carefully, so transporational cycling was possible.
Joerg should have done the same.

Sometimes it's good to move somewhere and then help estabishing a
cycling culture, also pushing for an infrastructure. Else it'll never
get expanded.


So what have you done to establish a cycling culture there? All we've heard
about is whining that riding there is dangerous.


Going to meeting, providing input, helping keep MTB trails open, and so
on. But most of all getting people on those trails because if they
aren't used they'll go away some day.

Riding on the trails is not dangerous. Riding on White Rock Road is.

https://goo.gl/maps/KRw6mqgnBrw

It's hard to say how much the constant nagging by the various parties
including myself achieves. Fact is, now that Folsom expands south of Hwy
50 they have spec'd a class I bike facility with connection to the trail
system into the plan. That will finally connect the El Dorado Trail to
the Folsom bike path system and then on to the river trail to
Sacramento. And on to Davis. As I always thought it should be.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #27  
Old August 12th 17, 08:41 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joerg[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,453
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On 2017-08-12 12:18, wrote:
On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 7:45:41 AM UTC-7, Joerg wrote:
On 2017-08-11 16:52, sms wrote:
On 8/11/2017 4:37 PM, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Friday, August 11, 2017 at 6:54:57 PM UTC-4, Joerg wrote:
Snipped

When I had to ride from where I lived in the Netherlands
(Vaals) to Maastricht I could pretty much set my 12-speed
bike on the bike path, put it in 12th gear and hammer those
20 miles. I did the same distance here (Cameron Park to
Folsom) yesterday for an errand. Aside from mixing in with
fast traffic at times which some potentially interested
cyclists don't like I also had to hack it across a dirt field
for half a mile, including crossing a muddy creek and lifting
the bike over some low fences. Hardly anyone would be willing
to do the latter. On the way back it was mostly along a
county road with 55mph traffic, ok but not exactly fun.

-- Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Lifting a bike over low fences? Sounds a lot like trespassing
onto private land.

What is it with you that you have such difficulty riding where
so mqany others ride without fear? Oh I know, a fw others share
your fears and thus bicycvling is extremely dangerous.

In the area Joerg is referring to, the issue is that not many
others ride, because of fear of riding on US50, a legitimate
fear.
.




Bicycles are not allowed on Hwy 50, that's the key problem. If you want
to go to Intel, Kaiser, Costco, Home Depot et cetera the only way
is to hack it across a field, he

https://goo.gl/maps/RZyYFr7MCTT2

There is now a gate and various habitat fences. I guess they are
fixing to put in developments and a road. Meaning the ride will be
over soon. The only alternative is White Rock Road which is close
to suicidal for a cyclist. Well, then I'll use the car until they
are done, after which hopefully that new road with have a bike lane
because it's going to be a race track.


I would never move to a place like that if I was interested in
transportational cycling.


Sometimes it's good to move somewhere and then help estabishing a
cycling culture, also pushing for an infrastructure. Else it'll
never get expanded.

For cyclists we already have much better options than we did 5-10
years ago. However, one must be able to handle a mountain bike.

http://analogconsultants.com/ng/bike/CoachLane1.JPG

We can now ride all the way to Walmart, brewpubs and other places
in Placerville on mostly dirt roads and singletrack though some of
it isn't for the faint of heart. Works for me. I simply adjusted my
spending of money to businesses that can be reached that way. Heck,
even one of my clients and a software engineer I network with are
located directly on that trail.

The downside is that I am going through a lot of rear tires. Oh
well.


Another problem is that when they finish you have to know how to find
your way through residential areas to find the bike paths. The north
side of Mt. Diablo is that way. Also I went with a group up Twin
Peaks in San Francisco and damn if I can find the way again since
those are service roads and not public.


Similar in our area. I recently showed all this stuff to a local
cyclist. He lives here for about five years, longer than I cycle in this
area and he is more hardcore than I am. Does all his grocery shopping
via bike and trailer, things like that. Yet he didn't know those "silent
routes". A lot of times he'd say "Wow, I never knew this was here!".

I found most of this via satellite photos. It's not on any map. Even
when you switch to "Show bike routes" most of the local MTB trails do
not show up at all.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/
  #28  
Old August 12th 17, 10:19 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8,480
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 7:03:59 PM UTC+1, Joy Beeson wrote:
On Fri, 11 Aug 2017 15:55:02 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

lifting the bike over some low
fences


Exactly how low? I don't think I could lift my bike over a fence much
above knee high, and I can't think of a use for a fence that low --
confining turtles? A symbolic boundary marker?

Of course I *am* seventy-six, female, and have a damaged rotator cuff.
But there is also the problem of getting *me* over the fence without
damaging it. When I was eight, I could climb a fence at the corner
post, but at a hundred and sixty-eight pounds, fence-climbing is right
out, unless it is built like a ladder. I think I *have* seen a board
panel in a wire fence, but can't remember when and where.


--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/


Hmm. For today's ride I met a chum at an art store on the very edge of town.. It's in an industrial estate and the art store staff close the gate at their end when they finish work (they don't open on Saturdays so today the gate was closed all day). At the other end of the industrial estate there is no gate at all, just the entrance road. My chum rode through the industrial estate, up into the parking lot beside the gate (which is inset, well clear of the passing road) and lifted his bike over the wall before I, just arriving from the other side, could dismount to help him. He's 74 or 75. Didn't seem to stress him out, either: he was chatting away while he did it, and afterwards, and we immediately rode up a steep, long hill.

Andre Jute
You're only as old as your mistress thinks you are -- Honoré de Balzac
  #29  
Old August 13th 17, 03:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Joy Beeson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 977
Default Stress Analysis in the Design of Bicycle Infrastructure

On Sat, 12 Aug 2017 12:02:42 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

I am a tad heavier but I have no problem lifting a bike and myself over
a regular cattle fence.



A hundred and sixty pounds of downward pressure on a wire designed to
resist in an entirely different direction, and to share the load with
a bunch of other wires . . . well, it's extremely rude to do it even
if the damage isn't immediately apparent.

But the boundary-marker fences you describe don't sound like much more
impediment than a curb.

Perhaps less than a railroad. I've been known to get to the Crazy Egg
by taking a footpath from 100 N into their parking lot. Ballast is
not easy to walk on.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at comcast dot net
 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bicycle Light Theft & Bicycle Parking Infrastructure sms Techniques 18 March 10th 17 11:51 PM
Bicycle Infrastructure and Safety: Death in PDX Jay Beattie Techniques 20 May 26th 12 02:30 AM
Cycle Infrastructure Design Paul Luton[_2_] UK 15 November 2nd 08 06:29 PM
Sprocket design and analysis bicycle_disciple Techniques 3 October 2nd 06 04:57 PM
How2 design ergo handle and stress on the arm/elbow teachndad Unicycling 7 November 22nd 04 09:19 AM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:34 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2017 CycleBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.