spoke key wire gauge

On Fri, 2 Jun 2017 13:36:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 10:16:34 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/2/2017 12:52 PM, wrote:
On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 6:58:24 AM UTC-7, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 6/1/2017 6:50 PM, wrote:
On Thursday, June 1, 2017 at 3:02:16 PM UTC-7, Doug Landau wrote:
On Wednesday, May 31, 2017 at 9:17:18 PM UTC-7, wrote:
O

Absolutely not. Cooling a casting the includes what could very loosely be considered spokes does NOT put additional pressure on the spokes. The entire casting shrinks equally.

You know this?

Doug - have you ever worked with casting metal? I have. You are implying that for some reason the cast spokes would cool differently than the rest of the casting - what gives you the idea that that would happen in a casting shop?

Actually, castings do not cool uniformly. Thin sections tend to cool
more rapidly than thick sections. External corners tend to cool more
quickly than internal corners, and so on. Patterns or molds are often
shaped slightly different than the final product because designers allow
for distortion that happens during cooling; and it's not unusual for a
badly-designed casting to crack on cooling due to differences in
contraction rates.


--
- Frank Krygowski

BTW - do you have the idea that in a casting shop that they pull a casting from the molds and throw it out into the snow? Many shops put castings through an assembly line with a cooling chamber that keeps you from getting cracks from irregular cooling. Hasn't anyone here ever worked in the real world?

I've worked in companies that had foundries. I've visited many other
foundries and watched many, many casting processes, and poured a few
castings myself. I don't recall ever seeing a special "cooling
chamber," although I suppose such things might be used somewhere.

Castings almost always do most of their cooling within the mold. The
mold provides a certain amount of thermal insulation from ambient.
Nonetheless, warping and residual stresses are real possibilities that
must be dealt with. Cooling is seldom completely uniform.

In the casting plant I worked in they had a long covered area of the assembly line where the castings were more or less held at a constant slow cooling so that they would not crack. As castings came out of the molds when the mold opened up they could crack immediately from the heat difference and a guy stood there with tools to pull it off. Then they would throw the casting back into the aluminum melter.

None of it was complex and it was plain that it wasn't designed by an Engineer - it was pure experience and they made casting for everything.

Having worked with castings ranging from making the "molds" to machine
the finished castings and assembling the devices, I agree that an
engineer isn't necessary to design a casting "mold" but it is
necessary to have a "mold maker" design and make the actual mold which
is a rather intricate task. Particularly if one wants want the
finished part to fit.

Of course, once the part is designed and the molds made then any
ignorant oaf can do the grunt work.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 02 Jun 2017 22:26:24 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. wrote:

I just looked at a circular spoke wrench with
6 openings that I use. It is marked 13G, 14G,
15G, and 3.2, 3.3, 3.5. The x.x openings all
measure what they are marked (mm) and the "G"
openings are the same size and directly
across the circle from the equivalent x.x
marks. In other words it fits only 3
different sizes of nipples, which are x.x mm
in width.

I love when tools are that educational!
For example the sticker on the back side of
calipers telling what drill to use.
But I suppose there is a limit to it. You know
beer bottle stickers which have a long
pretentious story telling who founded the
company etc.? If people put that on tools
they'd be the laughing stock before coffee.

Probably because tools have evolved. The first guy that used a
"hammer" probably just picked up a rock to bash a dinosaur.

Re beer. Try to discover who brewed the first batch of beer :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 9:22:01 PM UTC-4, Emanuel Berg wrote:

But the point isn't what bikes are easier or
more difficult. Rather if you spend a small
fortune on something, obviously your are very
much into it, so why not learn how to operate
it? I think that to be a natural desire...

You might think so, but people are very, very different. I've helped very
intelligent people who could not figure out how to adjust their brakes, how
to repair a chain (even though they had a chain tool!), etc. I remember
teaching a mechanical engineer how to fix a flat tire on a bike. In other
words, people vary greatly in their mechanical ability, just as they vary
in all other respects.

Vaguely related: A certain gentleman I know is very intelligent, extremely
respected by a large community, wonderfully knowledgeable regarding history,
sociology, philosophy, religion, etc.

So: He rides a Harley Davidson motorcycle, one that's quite expensive. One
year, I invited him to come with me to a museum with a special exhibit of
antique motorcycles. We rode there together on our motorcycles.

In the museum, he kept pointing to parts of the motorcycles and asking
questions; for example "What's that part right there? Is that the carburetor?"

My answer: "No, that's the battery."

- Frank Krygowski

Frank Krygowski wrote:

Vaguely related: A certain gentleman I know
is very intelligent, extremely respected by
a large community, wonderfully knowledgeable
regarding history, sociology, philosophy,
religion, etc.

Such stuff is tricky to fit into this
discussion as there is nothing to "operate".
I take it he knows books are put in
bookshelves, how to sort them alphabetically,
that they consist of chapters and paragraphs,
that three makes a triology, how to use an
index and a bookmark, what is an ISBN, how to
borrow at a library, and that books are edited
and typeset by a publishing house.
But everybody knows that, and if you don't you
are not a lamer but an imbecile...

So: He rides a Harley Davidson motorcycle,
one that's quite expensive [...]

In the museum, he kept pointing to parts of the
motorcycles and asking questions; for example
"What's that part right there? Is that
the carburetor?"

My answer: "No, that's the battery."

Perhaps he is so succesful he just bought an
expansive HD. And perhaps he never thought
about any of that stuff until that visit to
the museum!

But, here at least, no person buys a 8000 USD
bicycle just because he is succesful and needs
a bicycle. For MCs and cars I can see it happen
tho, that people buy them really expensive
without really being into MCs or cars as an
interest/activity...

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

John B. wrote:

Probably because tools have evolved.
The first guy that used a "hammer" probably
just picked up a rock to bash a dinosaur.

Many of our tools were probably around then in
some form or another. Only the application of
an idea is so important. The idea behind the
hammer is obvious and the stone age hammers
were hammers. But not exactly as our hammers,
right? For more advanced tools this discrepancy
widens... There were probably *computers* in
the stone age as well but our computers is what
- since the transistors of the 40s-50s?

Re beer. Try to discover who brewed the first
batch of beer :-)

That would be one thing that hasn't changed
that much

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On 03/06/17 10:22, AMuzi wrote:


hah! You obviously have not flashed software upgrades on any of the
current electronic shift systems.


I've never flashed my software at any shift system.

--
JS

On Friday, June 2, 2017 at 9:47:33 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:

[1] A friend's family makes match plates for iron castings
so I have a small acquaintance with this, no direct foundry
experience.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

When I was a boy, every big scrapyard had the capability of casting at least pot iron gratings and other municipal requirements; I imagine modern health and safety may have put a stop to that. But today every city of more than modest population has a fine arts foundry attached to the art school or the tech school or the art gallery where, if you approach them right, they'll cast whatever you send a professional mold for, though I doubt they will want to cast life-critical parts like automobile wheels. Back when I was a portrait painter until I got bored with my subjects, I sculpted a few heads and bought a maquette-size electric smelter but never used it as it was just so much easier to send the moulds out to professionals who cast bronze daily and didn't have to spend time on a learning curve, as I would have.

Andre Jute
You don't want to be careless with hot metal

On Sat, 03 Jun 2017 06:05:37 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. wrote:

Probably because tools have evolved.
The first guy that used a "hammer" probably
just picked up a rock to bash a dinosaur.

Many of our tools were probably around then in
some form or another. Only the application of
an idea is so important. The idea behind the
hammer is obvious and the stone age hammers
were hammers. But not exactly as our hammers,
right? For more advanced tools this discrepancy
widens... There were probably *computers* in
the stone age as well but our computers is what
- since the transistors of the 40s-50s?

Re beer. Try to discover who brewed the first
batch of beer :-)

That would be one thing that hasn't changed
that much

Actually it has. I'm not a beer drinker but I did look up "medieval
beer making" for a friend and :way back when" they apparently didn't
use hops as I found quite a lot of recipes that included other
flavoring.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 3 Jun 2017 17:17:50 +1000, James
wrote:

On 03/06/17 10:22, AMuzi wrote:


hah! You obviously have not flashed software upgrades on any of the
current electronic shift systems.


I've never flashed my software at any shift system.

You are saying that you keep your pants on?
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 6/2/2017 11:58 PM, Emanuel Berg wrote:
Frank Krygowski wrote:

Vaguely related: A certain gentleman I know
is very intelligent, extremely respected by
a large community, wonderfully knowledgeable
regarding history, sociology, philosophy,
religion, etc.

Such stuff is tricky to fit into this
discussion as there is nothing to "operate".
I take it he knows books are put in
bookshelves, how to sort them alphabetically,
that they consist of chapters and paragraphs,
that three makes a triology, how to use an
index and a bookmark, what is an ISBN, how to
borrow at a library, and that books are edited
and typeset by a publishing house.
But everybody knows that, and if you don't you
are not a lamer but an imbecile...

So: He rides a Harley Davidson motorcycle,
one that's quite expensive [...]

In the museum, he kept pointing to parts of the
motorcycles and asking questions; for example
"What's that part right there? Is that
the carburetor?"

My answer: "No, that's the battery."

Perhaps he is so succesful he just bought an
expansive HD. And perhaps he never thought
about any of that stuff until that visit to
the museum!

But, here at least, no person buys a 8000 USD
bicycle just because he is succesful and needs
a bicycle. For MCs and cars I can see it happen
tho, that people buy them really expensive
without really being into MCs or cars as an
interest/activity...

Way back in the 1970s, a guy came into the little bike shop that I
frequented and asked what was the most expensive bicycle that he could
buy. The owner said it was a titanium bike (probably Teledyne) that had
just come out on the market.

The customer said he wanted two of them as soon as possible. According
to my friend the shop owner, the guy didn't even know that bicycles came
in different sizes.

--
- Frank Krygowski