Unsafe at any speed?-Path beside Beach Rd

TimC wrote:

The way I learnt to drive was by tractor first, when I was 10 or so.
Mum was amazed when she couldn't work out how to back the trailer full
of oranges back around the corner from the edge of rows of oranges,
into one row, and I did it with ease. She reckons I did it with ease
because of all the technical lego I played with.

Lego hadn't been invented when I was a kid. Being in Holland, the bicycle
was the obvious vehicle for me. I rode at age four (training wheels had also
not been invented) and rode to my (Montessori) pre-school that same year.

In a study released recently, according to JJJ news this morning,

You listen to JJJ? Aaaarghh!

Theo

Theo Bekkers Wrote:
EuanB wrote:
Theo Bekkers Wrote:
stuff

I don't agree.

Of course you don't . :-)

Learn your road craft on a vehicle which is much less likely to kill
or maim others. Good road craft has everything to do with driving a
motor car on the road.

So when you go for your driving test in Euanland, you will first be
issued
with a pram. When you show competency at manouvring the pram, you will
progress to a tricycle, skateboard, roller blades, wheelchair, bicycle,
scooter, motorcycle, and then a 2CV, before progressing to a 4 cyl
Getz.
Did I say that? Don't think I did. What I said was that it would be a
good idea to learn your road craft on a bicycle. If you stuff up you're
much less likely to harm others and you learn how to operate a bicycle
in traffic, a useful skill.

Once copentance on a bicycle is demonstrated, then go for your car
license. What do you find so difficult to understand about that Theo?


--
EuanB

EuanB wrote:

Did I say that? Don't think I did. What I said was that it would be
a good idea to learn your road craft on a bicycle. If you stuff up
you're much less likely to harm others and you learn how to operate a
bicycle in traffic, a useful skill.

Once copentance on a bicycle is demonstrated, then go for your car
license. What do you find so difficult to understand about that Theo?

Whilst I agree with what you say above, that competence on a bicycle
certainly is desirable and a good way to learn roadcraft, I find it
difficult to understand why a person _must_ have competence on a bicycle to
obtain a driver's licence. To me, it makes less sense than having competence
riding a horse to get a licence to drive a horse and buggy.

Theo

On 2007-05-02, Theo Bekkers (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
EuanB wrote:
Once copentance on a bicycle is demonstrated, then go for your car
license. What do you find so difficult to understand about that Theo?

Whilst I agree with what you say above, that competence on a bicycle
certainly is desirable and a good way to learn roadcraft, I find it
difficult to understand why a person _must_ have competence on a bicycle to
obtain a driver's licence. To me, it makes less sense than having competence
riding a horse to get a licence to drive a horse and buggy.

Here's a good justification: if you can't aquire the competantency to
ride a bike, then you probably will never be able to aquire the
competancy to drive a car (where I define competancy as being that
which about 80% of current drivers do not currently have -- ie, the
dangerous idiots who feel it justified to overtake on double white
lines around a blind corner -- higher proportions in Greensborough).
You'll do much less damage to other people, being incompetant at the
former rather than the latter.

--
TimC
Sorry if there are error (factual or otherwise) in transmission - I'm
sending this message by manually feeding signals down the gigabit
fiber link with a laser pointer.

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 2 May 2007 16:37:29 +1000
TimC wrote:
Here's a good justification: if you can't aquire the competantency to
ride a bike, then you probably will never be able to aquire the
competancy to drive a car (where I define competancy as being that

Pity someone with poor balance. Or with a leg injury eh?

Zebee

On 2007-05-02, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
In aus.bicycle on Wed, 2 May 2007 16:37:29 +1000
TimC wrote:
Here's a good justification: if you can't aquire the competantency to
ride a bike, then you probably will never be able to aquire the
competancy to drive a car (where I define competancy as being that

Pity someone with poor balance. Or with a leg injury eh?

We already mentioned that they're be medical exceptions at the top of
this thread.

--
TimC
A debugged program is one for which you have not yet found the
conditions that make it fail. -- Jerry Ogdin

In aus.bicycle on Wed, 2 May 2007 18:27:00 +1000
TimC wrote:
On 2007-05-02, Zebee Johnstone (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
In aus.bicycle on Wed, 2 May 2007 16:37:29 +1000
TimC wrote:
Here's a good justification: if you can't aquire the competantency to
ride a bike, then you probably will never be able to aquire the
competancy to drive a car (where I define competancy as being that

Pity someone with poor balance. Or with a leg injury eh?

We already mentioned that they're be medical exceptions at the top of
this thread.

If you are going to make major blanket statements, might be an idea to
make your own exceptions...

Because without that, your statement is nonsense. Riding a bicycle is
a physical skill not a mental one. You can see kids perfectly able to
ride bicycles who have no traffic sense at all.

Having driven a car for some years does not, it seems, give someone
more than minimal competence in traffic riding a motorcycle. They can
read the traffic at traffic speeds better than a complete novice but
there are other variables they don't quite manage.

I find that riding a bicycle doesn't seem to be the same as driving a
car. Speeds are different, what I'm looking for is different, the
decisions I take are different. I think the best bet is to train
people for what they are doing, not something a bit like it if you
squint.

Zebee

On Wed, 02 May 2007 12:32:45 +0800, Theo Bekkers wrote:

Why not a mandatory electric wheelchair? One of those Gopher things. I
have owned one for ten years but my mother-in-law rides it.

Theo, why do your family's vehicles always pop up in these threads?
--
Dave Hughes |
I think it's a beautiful day to go to the zoo and feed the ducks.
To the lions. -- Brian Kantor

On 2007-05-02, Dave (aka Bruce)
was almost, but not quite, entirely unlike tea:
On Wed, 02 May 2007 12:32:45 +0800, Theo Bekkers wrote:

Why not a mandatory electric wheelchair? One of those Gopher things. I
have owned one for ten years but my mother-in-law rides it.

Theo, why do your family's vehicles always pop up in these threads?

Was this one made by Mercedes?

--
TimC
All science is either physics or stamp collecting.
-- Ernest Rutherford

"Theo Bekkers" wrote in message
...
Plodder wrote:
"Bleve" wrote

Or maybe we're at cross porpoises? Maybe rooman *isn't* suggesting
that CA can, without a significant change in its charter, administer
and train road riding safety trainers and examiners?

Ah, we're back to the ambiguity of "compulsory/mandatory". I'm not
necessarily in favour of "compulsory licence/training for cyclists" I
am in favour of compulsory/mandatory bicycle training as a part of
driver training. Whether someone does or doesn't become a cyclist is
their choice, but if they want to learn to drive a car, first they
must learn about riding a bicycle. My thinking is that it will help
make the upcoming crop of drivers more bicycle aware. That's why I
think it would be relatively simple for the state road licencing
people to administer.

Perhaps while they're at it, they can teach them to be good pedestrians as
well. And, whilst we have them confined to the classroom, we can teach
them to say please and thank you, not use the word orientated because
oriented is the correct usage, cover their mouth when they sneeze, let the
missus have the remote control sometimes, and a lot of other social things
that would be nice but have little or no relation to driving a motor car
on the road.

Maybe, just maybe, we could encourage parents to teach their children some
roadcraft and leave bicycle training to them.

Theo

And why not have bogan dad teach little mullet-boy to drive too, and do away
with those pesky tests? I know, I know; you learned to drive your uncle's
ute on the farm when you were three months old and only had to drive around
the block from the cop shop to the pub to get your licence. Times have moved
on.

I've never felt threatened while riding my bike by someone driving a car who
sneezed without covering their mouth. I have felt endangered by people
driving as though they have no idea about how to treat other road users.

I agree that, ideally, road sharing is a social game. However, we all need
to share an understanding of the game rules. The best way to acheive that
understanding is to all be taught pretty well the same set of rules.

We unleash kids on bicycles without road rule training - remember, they are
not taught road rules until they apply for a driving licence. Why not start
road rule training on the transport available to them (bicycles) at school
and ensure their knowledge is reasonable (weasel word!) when they apply for
permission to drive a motor vehicle?

I'm trying to work out how "...a lot of other social things that would be
nice but have little or no relation to driving a motor car on the road." is
the same as teaching people bicycle skills and road use. Doesn't knowing how
to respond to other traffic (including bicyles) have some relation to
driving a motor car on the road? Perhaps you're confusing the idea of
driving a motor vehicle (making it go/stop/turn, etc) with shared road use.
There's a world of difference.

me