Saddle sore solutions?

John B. Slocomb wrote:

Rationalize it any way you wish. Then go
out for a 4 hour bike ride

First, help me rationalize that?

Why, your theory, of course.

It applied, as I said, to "commuting and
everyday road biking". If anyone plans to ride
his or her bike 4 hours a day then yes, I'd
look very closely into every option regarding
the bike, including the saddle and all
configurations that comes with it.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On 2018-07-29 16:32, jbeattie wrote:
On Sunday, July 29, 2018 at 3:36:49 PM UTC-7, Doc O'Leary wrote:
For your reference, records indicate that Joerg
wrote:

On Friday I talked to a woman who rides very little because the
saddle causes her pain after a short time.

Everyone else seems to have keyed in on getting a saddle that fits
and/or adjusting it properly so that it works well as a contact
point. So here’s my take on the issue as I’ve seen it with my
non-rider friends:

A saddle is not a seat; it’s not there for plopping your fat ass on
it for a sit. If you want something to bear your weight, use your
pedals.


A Spanish road bike pro is said to complete whole races standing in the
pedals almost all the time. Most folks including myself can't do that or
find it highly uncomfortable.


With that said, shoes can be worse than saddles. I had crippling
hot-foot today. Time to look for yet another set of insoles -- or
maybe different shoes.


I saw a rider sitting on the side of the road who seemed to have a
problem like that yesterday. Asked him whether he needed help or a tow
but he didn't. Ever since I started riding with sandals all summer that
problem is simply gone for me. I will never go back to any sort of
latching pedals, clips, loops or whatever.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On 2018-07-30 00:55, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Sat, 28 Jul 2018 12:48:03 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On Friday I talked to a woman who rides very little because the saddle
causes her pain after a short time. Most likely this is a combination of
factors, the hardness of usual road bike saddles plus the fact that road
bikes have no suspension whatsoever and hard tires.

I had a different way of looking at the problem. I didn't expect to
ever find the perfect saddle. When my butt became sore, I simply
switched to a different saddle (or different saddle position), and the
sore spot moved to another part of my anatomy. I could vary the
degree of discomfort, move the location of discomfort, but never got
rid of it completely. When my pelvis fit my ancient Brooks something
saddle (about 40 years ago), I came closest to a painless saddle.
However, as I grew older, I no longer fit the Brooks saddle, and had
to retire it.

I have a small collection of saddles obtained from garage sales, flea
markets, thrift shops, bargain bins at the LBS, and mail order
specials. What I prefer these days is a Selle Royal Freeway Moderate
Men's Xsenium Brown ICS (whatever that means):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Selle-Royal-Freeway-Moderate-Mens/dp/B002VGAWBI
which I picked up in a fit of retail therapy splurging. About $40 in
the LBS bargain bin about 10 years ago. I think I also liked the
brown color as I hoped it would be better than my other black saddles
and not scorch my butt after the bicycle had been in the sun for over
an hour.


I fondly remember my Sell Royale from decades ago. Abour four years ago
it broke and looking for another one I saw the same as in that Amazon
link, "currently unavailable" :-(


I've never bothered to ask myself, what is different about this saddle
that is lacking in others? So, I measure the surface hardness with a
hardness gauge (durometer) like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/172240656843
However, there's a problem. For hard rubber, such as tires, the
penetrator is a Shore Type A. However, for softer material, such as
padded bicycle saddles, a Type OO penetrator is best as the Type A is
pointed and sharp enough to puncture the fake leather saddle.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/yaoAAOSw2D1ZgXh8/s-l1600.jpg
I only have a Shore A penetrator, so I need to be very careful.

Saddle hardness measurements so far in the contact area for my pelvis;
Durometer Saddle
25 Selle Royal Freeway etc.
33 Vetta
35 Nashbar Velo
38 WTB Rocket
55 Selle Italia "Genuine Gel"
93 Brooks Ideale 90 (about 40 years old)
Swell. My two best saddles are the hardest and the softest, so I
can't determine if hard or soft is best. If the Brooks saddle at 93
durometer works, a saddle made from concrete, glass, or rock hard
rubber would work as well.


That is also my observation, hardness has very little to do with sores
from long rides.


It's 1AM. Time to give up before I fall asleep at the keyboard.


I wouldn't wake up in the morning if I did that :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 08:06:33 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-07-30 00:55, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Selle-Royal-Freeway-Moderate-Mens/dp/B002VGAWBI

I fondly remember my Sell Royale from decades ago. Abour four years ago
it broke and looking for another one I saw the same as in that Amazon
link, "currently unavailable" :-(

Yep. I wanted to buy myself a spare, but couldn't find one. It was
probably discontinued just before I bought mine, which is possibly why
it was in the bargain bin. I found this on eBay, which looks very
close but is not exactly the same:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/322005271958

Swell. My two best saddles are the hardest and the softest, so I
can't determine if hard or soft is best. If the Brooks saddle at 93
durometer works, a saddle made from concrete, glass, or rock hard
rubber would work as well.

That is also my observation, hardness has very little to do with sores
from long rides.

I haven't done any long rides for many years, so this is all new to
me. I'm also on blood thinners (Plavix and aspirin) where any manner
of impact or abrasion will produce a bruise, which is useful for
locating where the saddle needs more padding or less surface friction.

It's 1AM. Time to give up before I fall asleep at the keyboard.

I wouldn't wake up in the morning if I did that :-)

Suring summer, I get about 5 to 6 hrs sleep at night, and about 1 hr
just after lunch. If I sleep for more than 8 hrs at night, I'm groggy
and sleeping through most of the next day. My brain also functions
best under cover of darkness, when the distractions are minimal.
During winter, I hibernate, or at least sleep more hours at night.
Yes, I know this is rather odd.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 16:39:40 +0200, Emanuel Berg
wrote:

John B. Slocomb wrote:

Rationalize it any way you wish. Then go
out for a 4 hour bike ride

First, help me rationalize that?

Why, your theory, of course.

It applied, as I said, to "commuting and
everyday road biking". If anyone plans to ride
his or her bike 4 hours a day then yes, I'd
look very closely into every option regarding
the bike, including the saddle and all
configurations that comes with it.

But a 4 hour ride is not really a long ride. I would imagine that most
readers here have done 4 hour rides. I used to do one every Sunday
morning.

On 2018-07-30 09:02, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 08:06:33 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

On 2018-07-30 00:55, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Selle-Royal-Freeway-Moderate-Mens/dp/B002VGAWBI

I fondly remember my Sell Royale from decades ago. Abour four years ago
it broke and looking for another one I saw the same as in that Amazon
link, "currently unavailable" :-(

Yep. I wanted to buy myself a spare, but couldn't find one. It was
probably discontinued just before I bought mine, which is possibly why
it was in the bargain bin. I found this on eBay, which looks very
close but is not exactly the same:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/322005271958


Genuine Selle Royale saddles used to be a lot more expensive than that ...

Regarding gel I wonder whether that could be a solution for this rider.
At least in TV ads they tout gel as a major benefit in insoles of shoes,
for people who develop pains there.


Swell. My two best saddles are the hardest and the softest, so I
can't determine if hard or soft is best. If the Brooks saddle at 93
durometer works, a saddle made from concrete, glass, or rock hard
rubber would work as well.

That is also my observation, hardness has very little to do with sores
from long rides.

I haven't done any long rides for many years, so this is all new to
me. I'm also on blood thinners (Plavix and aspirin) where any manner
of impact or abrasion will produce a bruise, which is useful for
locating where the saddle needs more padding or less surface friction.


My rides aren't super-long anymore but as I gradually retire I am upping
my miles. Currently it's around 40mi for a weekday ride. Depends on the
turf, gnarlier trail rides on the MTB are sometimes under 20mi but those
are tough miles, with me drenched in sweat and consuming more than a
gallon of water.


It's 1AM. Time to give up before I fall asleep at the keyboard.

I wouldn't wake up in the morning if I did that :-)

Suring summer, I get about 5 to 6 hrs sleep at night, and about 1 hr
just after lunch. If I sleep for more than 8 hrs at night, I'm groggy
and sleeping through most of the next day. My brain also functions
best under cover of darkness, when the distractions are minimal.
During winter, I hibernate, or at least sleep more hours at night.
Yes, I know this is rather odd.


We are all odd in one way or another.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

John B. Slocomb wrote:

But a 4 hour ride is not really a long ride.
I would imagine that most readers here have
done 4 hour rides. I used to do one every
Sunday morning.

Yes, I've done them as well. And that's when
you start to think more about your gear.
This isn't to say that the inventory saddles
still shouldn't do for most people, of course.

--
underground experts united
http://user.it.uu.se/~embe8573

On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 10:16:33 -0700, Joerg
wrote:

Genuine Selle Royale saddles used to be a lot more expensive than that ...

Yep, but I don't think that applies to discontinued low end products.
Plenty of other Selle Royale saddles on eBay at similar low prices:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=selle+royal+freeway
I did some digging and couldn't find any evidence of counterfeit Selle
saddles at low prices.

Regarding gel I wonder whether that could be a solution for this rider.
At least in TV ads they tout gel as a major benefit in insoles of shoes,
for people who develop pains there.

Inscribed in the sacred scrolls of Sheldon Brown:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/saddles.html
A common buzzword in saddle construction is "gel", which is
often touted as a cure-all. The material known as "gel" is
a particular type of closed-cell foam, in which the air
bubbles are at higher than normal pressure. The fact that
a given saddle says "GEL" in big letters has no correlation
with how comfortable it is...it's basically hype.

So it was written, so it must be.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 17:47:45 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

The future is here.
https://www.sq-lab.com/en/sqlab-ergonomics/sqlab-concepts/sqlab-the-way-to-the-perfect-saddle.html

Bah Humbug. Too complexicated. All that is needed is to first
digitize the riders butt, clean up the lumps and bumps on a computah,
and make a plaster or urethane foam casting. The saddle is then
molded from the casting or machined from the digitized data, providing
a perfect fit that distributes the riders weight evenly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kwmif4HbhfE
Admittedly, it would look a bit strange, but the perfect saddle fit
would make the inevitable ridicule from other riders worth tolerating.
Once the perfect saddle has been built and tested, it's easy enough to
make additional identical saddles.

If that's not good enough, how about a bicycle "water saddle"? I used
to have a water bed until the cost of electricity and my worthless cat
stretching his claws, conspired to make it uneconomical and leaky. I
suspect a "water saddle" would be just as comfortable. It could also
double as a water bottle in an emergency.

If that's not good enough, perhaps a toilet seat (inspired) bicycle
saddle?
http://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20051011/toilet-seat-inspires-bicyclists-big-idea
https://www.ismseat.com


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On 7/30/2018 9:04 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 30 Jul 2018 17:47:45 -0700 (PDT), jbeattie
wrote:

The future is here.
https://www.sq-lab.com/en/sqlab-ergonomics/sqlab-concepts/sqlab-the-way-to-the-perfect-saddle.html

Bah Humbug. Too complexicated. All that is needed is to first
digitize the riders butt, clean up the lumps and bumps on a computah,
and make a plaster or urethane foam casting. The saddle is then
molded from the casting or machined from the digitized data, providing
a perfect fit that distributes the riders weight evenly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kwmif4HbhfE
Admittedly, it would look a bit strange, but the perfect saddle fit
would make the inevitable ridicule from other riders worth tolerating.
Once the perfect saddle has been built and tested, it's easy enough to
make additional identical saddles.

If that's not good enough, how about a bicycle "water saddle"? I used
to have a water bed until the cost of electricity and my worthless cat
stretching his claws, conspired to make it uneconomical and leaky. I
suspect a "water saddle" would be just as comfortable. It could also
double as a water bottle in an emergency.

If that's not good enough, perhaps a toilet seat (inspired) bicycle
saddle?
http://www.heraldtribune.com/news/20051011/toilet-seat-inspires-bicyclists-big-idea
https://www.ismseat.com



Been done.

The Shimizu-Jacobs Cool Gear liquid center saddle:

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.as...15612&Enum=106

The improved model, with tubular CP* titanium rails, was the
coolest thing ever, for a moment. Wayne Stetina rode the
final 15K or so standing up- for a national championship
victory- after his rails cracked.

*predated any of our modern Ti alloys

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971