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#41
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Scope for a clear thinker in cycling: a lesson from the FDA
AMuzi writes:
On 8/17/2017 2:20 PM, Doc O'Leary wrote: For your reference, records indicate that Jeff Liebermann wrote: On Wed, 16 Aug 2017 15:57:01 -0000 (UTC), Doc O'Leary wrote: For your reference, records indicate that Jeff Liebermann wrote: -snip- Maybe, but it’s tough to really know what will be the thing that *actually* makes people try transportation alternatives. Because it does generally seem to be the case that once someone buys a car, they tend to use it for everything. Whether that’s the disease or just a symptom doesn’t matter; it simply is the state of things that needs to be fundamentally changed if you expect people to use bikes more. -snippy snip- "someone buys a car, they tend to use it for everything" Seems contagious. Same thing happened when I bought my bike! I bought a hammer. -- |
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#42
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Scope for a clear thinker in cycling: a lesson from the FDA
On Thursday, August 17, 2017 at 7:33:12 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/17/2017 11:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/16/2017 9:12 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 12:20:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/15/2017 1:20 AM, Tim McNamara wrote: -snip snip- So for me, riding is a benefit. I "get" to do it. For most Americans, riding would be a detriment if they "had" to do it. Frank, there's an old adage, 'For every room in heaven, there's another just like it in hell for someone else.' -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 Krygowski will discover that the mirrored duality of heaven and hell for himself soon enough, when he starts looking for the missing air conditioning dial... Andre Jute Calvinist: my place is reserved |
#43
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Scope for a clear thinker in cycling: a lesson from the FDA
On Friday, August 18, 2017 at 2:28:32 AM UTC+1, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
About 3 years ago, we took up a collection to buy a rather elaborate treadmill for a rather obese friend. I helped put it together and program the monster. He used it at least once per day for about a month, less so after that, and abandoned it after about 4 months. After heart surgery I bought a treadmill because for a while I had to be accompanied everywhere. Years later I still use the treadmill daily when there's no cycling because of the weather. I think I'm getting full value out of it. But I had an equally expensive rower that I soon lost interest in, because I'm just not a sculler, I'm a walker and a cyclist; i have sympathy with your friend, because I understand how one can come to hate a particular form of exercise. The rower wasn't the first manner of exercise I hated; where I grew up, rugby was next to godliness, and at my first college it was compulsory; I mean that literally; when I refused to turn out for the team I later captained, the house disciplinary committee descended on me (I put two of them in hospital for falling upon me in the middle of the night, and after that they walked carefully around me and managed to let me know which night they were coming so that I would stay over with my girlfriend, which was a good outcome). God, I hated the mud and all those sweaty, non-kulturny jocks; the irony is that some of my scholarships were openly given for athletic prowess, and where jock scholarships were not permitted, ways were found to reward me lavishly for turning out for whichever sport the alumnus fancied. After the rower there was a so-called Nordic Skywalker, which is like cross-country ski-walking and exercises all your limbs at once, but the physios at the hospital and my cardiologist's team hated it because apparently it tempts people to ramp up too suddenly, and to run their heart rate too high; I used to be on it two hours a day when it was impossible to cycle, just for the pure exuberance of the thing, and because it endowed me with a sense of rhythm. The Nordic Skywalker self-destructed on cheap bearings pretty quickly; I think it was built specifically to be used three times gently and briefly, and then to sit in a garage. The bearings were plain metal and appeared to be low-grade mild steel. Andre Jute Fit |
#44
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Scope for a clear thinker in cycling: a lesson from the FDA
On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 12:59:37 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 8/16/2017 9:12 PM, Tim McNamara wrote: On Tue, 15 Aug 2017 12:20:39 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 8/15/2017 1:20 AM, Tim McNamara wrote: Bicycling is already an economical alternative to driving by at least an order of magnitude when comparing a mid-range bike with a mid-range car. Operating costs of a bike are a tiny fraction of the operating costs of a car, even when factoring the stupidly high prices of consumables like bike tires... What's the average bike sold to consumers cost- about $500 or so (I've been out of the normal new bike market for decades, so I really don't know)? Versus the average car costing about $25,000? Economics are not really the carrot one might hope for. People do not make choices in an economically coherent fashion. I think you're using too restrictive a definition of "economic." Yours seems to be counting only dollars. But at least in some discussions "economics" is used to describe human behavior in response to benefits and detriments in general, not just when counting dollars. (The _Freakonomics_ series of books goes into this idea in detail.) OK, you make a good point. I was thinking strictly dollars. But a 20 minute drive to work versus an hour bike ride or a 1 1/2 hour bus ride has definite value that influences decisions. Or being able to bring home a week's work of groceries in one's car versus maybe a day or two by bike. More on that aspect of benefits & detriments: It occurs to me that I view bicycling (at least over moderate distances) far differently than the typical American. Before retirement, I thought "I get to ride my bike to work." I liked it because I liked pretty much all bicycling (well, except in the rain), and because it kept me in shape for more bicycling. It also put me in a better mood all day. Similarly, I ride my bike to the grocery store because it's fun for me and my wife, and we go the "long" way both to enjoy a pleasant route and to get a few more miles. So for me, riding is a benefit. I "get" to do it. For most Americans, riding would be a detriment if they "had" to do it. True. The inverse of which is that I "have" to drive to work 3 of 4 days, and I hate driving. If I primarily lived some place where pleasurable driving was reasonably possible, I might have a different feeling about it. But pleasant biking can be found and I don't "have" to do it. Come to think of it, that feeling of "having" to ride my bike is why I stopped racing in 2000. |
#45
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Scope for a clear thinker in cycling: a lesson from the FDA
On Thu, 17 Aug 2017 14:20:19 -0400, Duane
wrote: Riding my bike home from work burns stress off. Driving home in traffic jams does just the opposite. +1 Make that +5 |
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