Another reason economists are dorks!

(Chalo) wrote:

Mark Hickey wrote

(Chalo) wrote:

I think it's implausible that
the US govt has any intention to set up a democratic system for some
brown folks whom they only ever intended to economically exploit.

My, my, my... feeling cynical today, are we? Have you read something
indicating we're keeping their oil revenue? No? Hmmmm.....

"We"? No, not me; not you. Halliburton. Kellogg Brown & Root.
Bechtel. Shrubby's friends, IOW. For, ahem, "services rendered".

And you think that any company with any (long since severed)
relationships to anyone in high office should disqualify themselves
from doing the kind of work they do (and do more of than anyone else)
for the government? Hoo boy, that's a tough one.

I heard a lot of bitching about the contracts being let to KB&R, but
haven't seen anything about any impropriety. Lots of inuendo, but no
numbers. Doncha think if there were ANY irregularities they'd be
paraded around on every left-leaning front page in the country?

--and substituting a worse one, that shoots innocent folks in the
streets without warning and can't even keep the lights on? Not much.

"A worse one", huh? You might want to take a reality pill, Chalo.

Under Saddam, an Iraqi could have a reasonable expectation of *driving
somewhere* without being machinegunned into chum because some heavily
armed 18-year-old mongoloid got flinchy.

I'm glad you respect our fighting men and women who are putting their
lives on the line, Chalo. Citizens do occasionally get killed when
other citizens attack US soldiers. The Iraqis can stop 100% of that
from happening if they really want to. Citizens in the US
occasionally get killed when thugs shoot it out with police. Does
that make cops "mongoloids" as well? Should the cops leave all the
major cities?

Read the news-- the real news, like from outside the USA. Civilians
are getting murdered every day by "our" boys over there-- folks that
even the occupation forces do not accuse of any wrongdoing. They are
just the latest part of the mountain of "collateral damage" inflicted
so that the US govt can control the petroleum economy.

Any indication that they're trying to do that? No? Hmmmm. Do you
have any idea how much scrutiny the Iraqi oil revenues are receiving
right now? Have you heard a peep about any US wrong-doing in
conjunction with them? I haven't.

Then there's
the pervasive unfounded detention (and often torture) of ordinary
civilians who probably managed to avoid trouble for years under
Saddam. Add to this the, um, "confiscation" of money and other
property turned up in random searches of civilians by US soldiers.
Fox News won't tell you about it, but it's there.

Yeah, those cases with MILLIONS OF US DOLLARS were some little old
widow's life savings, right? And I guess you could consider all of
Saddam's houses "private property" - but who cares? They're so tacky
I'm surprised the grunts can get to sleep in them.

I just don't see anything Saddam was accused of that isn't being
perpetrated by Americans in Iraq as we speak.

Show me mass graves with hundreds of thousands of men, women and
children and then we'll talk. Show me the gassing of entire villages.
Show me the organized rape.

If you think the US military is as scary as Saddam, explain why there
were NO protests in the decades under Saddam, but frequent ones under
US military rule.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

Kevan Smith /\/\

wrote:

Ever heard of the Cultural Revolution? How many _millions_ did that kill?
Saddam
was a piker compared to Mao. And in recent memory, I can recall Tianamen
Square.
That certainly was a nice way to deal with people wanting freedom, eh?

Hmmm....
Cultural Revolution- '66 through '68
Driving force- Mao Tse Dung (died Sept '76)
Tiananmen Square- April through June '89
Driving force- Crackdown on dissidents by Deng Xiaoping (died Feb '97)

Will someone please hand Kevan that time travel machine?

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Kevan Smith /\/\

wrote:

Well, how about you? Where's your big clamor to go into China, which is far
worse a regime than Saddam could have ever dreamed? In fact, where's your
outcry
against being allies with the brutal, murders-his-own-people dictator of
Pakistan, Pervez Musharef, who overthrew a democratically elected government?

It seems Kevan isn't really against a Pax Americana. He just wants to be in
charge of the enemies list.

Regards,
Bob Hunt

Is there no political newsgroup somewhere for this discourse? I starve
for bicycling content!

Well, I picked a 1975 or so Raleigh Record Ace out of the trash on
my way home from work, I'll get good use out of the parts, Weinmann
centerpulls in perfect condition, Raleigh branded Sun Tour ders, a
nice alloy stem and bars.

No cranks, wheels or seatpost, I think someone was stripping it
and went home for tools. Some important bolts were missing.

But the real prize is the frame. A lugged 65 cm job in black with
silver head tube and seat tube panel, really slick with the metal
head badge and all, a little scratched but no rust.

Lugwork pretty nice, paint ditto, not too heavy for a fixie or
beater.

Only problem is the size. 65 cm wasn't a typo, yes, its a 25 1/2
inch frame. I won't be riding this bike soon, but it's just the
right size for Osama bin Laden.

And you thought this wasn't a political post.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
in.edu__________

"Chalo" wrote


Under Saddam, an Iraqi could have a reasonable expectation of *driving
somewhere* without being machinegunned into chum because some heavily
armed 18-year-old mongoloid got flinchy.

Spoken by someone that truly has no clue, and has never actually had to
defend anything.
"...heavily armed 18-year-old mongoloid...". Give me a break...


Read the news-- the real news, like from outside the USA.

http://www.memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD54603 Al-Balat July 24, 2003.
Not in Defense of Saddam

Al-Balat(The Royal Court), which is published by the Iraqi National
Coalition, reflects the views of Sherif Hussein, who is a claimant to the
throne. The editor-in-chief of the publication decried the fact that Iraqis
did not find it in themselves to punish the looters and the thieves who
destroyed the country, and said that "if only the Iraqis had learnt from
Western democracy and conducted a general referendum among all citizens,
except the looters and their relatives, and asked them for their verdict on
those who destroyed the country in such an evil and barbaric manner [meaning
Saddam's sons]. they would have screamed: 'Death. Death to all those who
brought shame on the country and harmed its people.' [The Iraqis] wish that
Iraq could have put an end to all mass graves with one last big mass grave
for the looters. Baghdad was about to realize that in 1991, but the
opportunity dissipated in the face of savagery." The article continued,
stating that "no one can defend Saddam and clear him of the [crimes of]
mass-graves. and perhaps the Iraqis have been saturated with murder to the
point that they may not want to kill even one looter. but the laws of the
universe -according to the article - decree death to whoever harms the
motherland and society and if "defending the country is a sacred
responsibility, then fighting those who betray it is more than sacred."

Pete

The bonobo, the closest genetic relative to man, is naturally peaceful and
non-aggressive.

they are constantly f***ing. If Marx wrote about that maybe I woulda gone to
class once or twice.

R

Mark Hickey wrote:

And that's why Fox is killing the network
news - people do get tired of getting only one side.

No, it's because people can't tell the difference between news and
info-tainment. Rent a video of "Network" and see where Rupert got
his ideas for Fox "News".
--
terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/

"Kevan Smith" /\/\ wrote


OK, you too. Falun Gong. Fetch.

Not knowing a whole lot about this group, except for persecution by the
Chinese government, I went and looked.

Either a peaceful quasi-Buddhist sect,
http://www.falundafa.org/eng/index_en.htm or a racist UFO cult
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/f02.html .

Depends on how far you are into it.

[liberal snippage, which is not really conducive to the whole concept, but
we can't copy the whole thing here... follows]

http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/flg_3.htm#1
1. Xinxing's Inner Meaning

The "xinxing" referred to in Falun Gong cannot be fully encompassed by
"virtue" alone. It encompasses much more than virtue. It encompasses many
different facets of things, including those of virtue. Virtue is only one
manifestation of one's xinxing, so using only virtue to understand the
meaning of xinxing is inadequate. Xinxing encompasses how to deal with the
two matters of gain and loss.

3. Simultaneous Cultivation of Zhen, Shan, and Ren

Our cultivation way cultivates Zhen, Shan, and Ren simultaneously. "Zhen" is
about telling the truth, doing truthful things, returning to one's origin
and true self, and ultimately becoming a true person. "Shan" is about
developing great compassion, doing good things, and saving people. We
particularly emphasize the ability of Ren. Only with Ren can one cultivate
to become a person with great virtue. Ren is a very powerful thing and
transcends Zhen and Shan. Throughout the entire cultivation process you are
asked to forbear, to watch your xinxing, and to exercise self-control.

or...

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/f02.html
In Li's view, the races are not to be intermingled. Mixed-race children, he
notes, are a symptom of societal decline. A race has its own particular
''biosphere,'' and whenever children are born of a mixed-race relationship,
they are ''defective persons.'' Li contends that heaven itself is
segregated.

But Mr. Li has also told Western reporters that humanity will soon be wiped
out, that space aliens are on Earth trying to replace human beings with
clones and that he is invested with supernatural powers allowing him to move
through dimensions. He also criticizes rock 'n'roll, science and
homosexuality.

Li's rambling dissertation, http://www.falundafa.org/eng/books.htm , has
only added to accusations that Falun Gong is a cult. Li writes he can
personally heal disease and that his followers can stop speeding cars using
the powers of his teachings. He writes that the Falun Gong emblem exists in
the bellies of practitioners, who can see through the celestial eyes in
their foreheads. Li believes ''humankind is degenerating and demons are
everywhere''-extraterrestrials are everywhere, too-and that Africa boasts a
2-billion-year-old nuclear reactor. He also says he can fly. "

Ssome good thoughts, but also some wildly off the wall stuff.

Pete
Your job is complete, Kevan. You got some of us to go look.

"Kevan Smith" /\/\ wrote in message
...
On 01 Aug 2003 04:41:00 GMT, (R15757) from AOL
http://www.aol.com
wrote:

The bonobo, the closest genetic relative to man, is naturally peaceful
and
non-aggressive.

they are constantly f***ing. If Marx wrote about that maybe I woulda gone
to
class once or twice.

Yep. And if two males fight, they get all guilty and make up by
masturbating
each other.

Check please!

Waiter, There's SOMETHING In My Soup Bill

"The Actual Pete" wrote:

Your job is complete, Kevan. You got some of us to go look.

In fact I was personally leafletted by Falun Gong practicioners
in front of the very coffee shop to which I earlier alluded.

Until I saw Pete's post I thought nothing of it, in fact I just
thanked the leafletter, a presumably Chinese woman of earnest
demeanor, for her gift.

Which I promptly shoved into my pannier and thought no more about.

Now here come Pete and Kevan arguing, and I suddenly remember that
in my very pannier, in my direct possession, is important information
that a REAL Falun Gong person pressed upon me!

Imagine my surprise. Imagine my additional surprise to find that
it is still there.

I have before me two double-sided leaflets detailing the abuses of
Chinese government against the Falun Gong. They are a little the
worse for wear but I can read them fine.

I discover that if I want more information I can call Lisa Fan at
(703) 541-5567 or Kith at (202) 256-4705.

If the Falun Gong can hand me leaflets before I have my coffee,
my hat's off to them, I absolutely never got even a Christmas card
from Jiang Zemin.

--

_______________________ALL AMIGA IN MY MIND_______________________
------------------"Buddy Holly, the Texas Elvis"------------------
in.edu__________