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Bonking + Bicycles



 
 
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  #31  
Old May 27th 20, 03:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
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Default Bonking + Bicycles

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 5:51:42 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 5/26/2020 7:42 PM, John B. wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2020 16:40:38 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 5/26/2020 3:24 PM, wrote:
I always laugh and chuckle when people yip and yap about bonking and running out of sugar. Ha Ha. Just people making up nonsense. Unless you are a Type 1 diabetic, or maybe maybe Type 2 also, you cannot get a low blood sugar. The human body does not allow blood sugars to fall very low. The Islets of Langerhans inside the pancreas produce the hormone insulin. This is injected into the blood stream and works with the glucose in the blood to keep the blood sugar at a fairly constant level. No matter how much you exercise and no matter how much or little you eat, the non-diabetic body is excellent at regulating the blood sugar to keep blood sugar at a very constant normal level. Your blood sugar does not go up and down in a non-diabetic. Blood sugar going up and down is similar to a person saying they stopped their heart from beating for a minute or two. Do you believe people can manually control whether their heart beats? If you do then you likely will also believe your

bl
ood sugar goes up and down.




On Saturday, May 23, 2020 at 6:07:52 PM UTC-5, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
Have any of you been on a ride where you've bonked to the point that every single pedal stroke no matter how low a gear you're in or how calm the winds are, feels like it's all you can do to get that crankarm past the 12 0'clock position?

If so, how long did it take you to recover so that you were able to ride at your normal pace again?

If you ate soon after bonking, how long did it take you to then recover enough to ride further?

Cheers


Good to know. I didn't ascribe a pathway to my
once-only-in-a-lifetime-of-riding event. Whatever happened,
it was sudden and debilitating, as much physical as mental
in that my brain was not working right.

So what is that pathway? In my case, in cool wet weather
with sustained effort for a few hours, I just ran out of
something (if not everything).


Marathon runners and (I believe) professional bicycle racers eat large
carbnohydrate heavy meals for a period before they expend effort.



Yes, that's well known.

What I think distinguishes my experience, and from others'
comments here, the general pattern for a bonk is excessive
metabolic spending, more than what's in the bank as it were.
At that time 85 miles at non-competitive speeds would not
have been a problem for me; just a ride. Fighting winds
while chilled in a wet jersey proved over whatever limit
there was.


At that point, it becomes a variety of shock -- if bad enough, it gets hard to hold anything down because the digestive tract has shut down in favor of more critical organs. I like it when I get so cold that a warm shower hurts. We are hard men! (or idiots, you pick).

-- Jay Beattie.



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  #32  
Old May 27th 20, 05:43 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Bonking + Bicycles

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 4:18:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 10:24:14 PM UTC+2, wrote:
I always laugh and chuckle when people yip and yap about bonking and running out of sugar. Ha Ha. Just people making up nonsense. Unless you are a Type 1 diabetic, or maybe maybe Type 2 also, you cannot get a low blood sugar. The human body does not allow blood sugars to fall very low. The Islets of Langerhans inside the pancreas produce the hormone insulin. This is injected into the blood stream and works with the glucose in the blood to keep the blood sugar at a fairly constant level. No matter how much you exercise and no matter how much or little you eat, the non-diabetic body is excellent at regulating the blood sugar to keep blood sugar at a very constant normal level. Your blood sugar does not go up and down in a non-diabetic. Blood sugar going up and down is similar to a person saying they stopped their heart from beating for a minute or two. Do you believe people can manually control whether their heart beats? If you do then you likely will also believe your blood sugar goes up and down.


And what causes the symptoms we call bonking and go away when we eat sugary food. Or does this also not happen?


Lou


Its called getting tired. Your muscles get tired from use. And when you stop you get rest. And maybe, possibly, you drink something and get rehydrated. But your BLOOPD SUGAR, the amount of glucose in your blood stream, remains very stable. Your endocrine system, specifically your pancreas, keeps your blood sugar very stable. It has to do that to allow your body to work properly. Remember your heart and lungs are muscles and are always working. They need a constant source of energy to function correctly. And all the rest of the cells in your body need a continuous, constant amount of sugar/energy to operate correctly. Your body, and all animal bodies, is very good at this task. All animal bodies keep blood sugars constant. Or else the animal dies.
  #33  
Old May 27th 20, 05:50 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 5:28:04 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 5/26/2020 5:40 PM, AMuzi wrote:

So what is that pathway? In my case, in cool wet weather with sustained
effort for a few hours, I just ran out of something (if not everything)..


I'm curious too. It's certain that I could never ride forever even at my
strongest. (I did 200 miles in one day, but once was enough for me.)
Some sort of reservoir gets depleted as we exert ourselves, obviously.
Eating and drinking helps, but there are still limits.


I've only ridden 380 miles straight. 26-27-28 hours. Have done that several times, all in the past now. You can ride at a reasonable pace almost indefinitely. RAAM riders do it for 8 days or so with only a few hours of sleep every couple days. You can keep up moderate physical activity for a very long time.



And that's regarding just one long ride. There's also a depressing
effect I've discovered as I've aged: It seems harder and harder to train
to do long distances. It's like that reservoir that gets depleted during
a long ride also gets smaller every year.

What exactly is that reservoir? And come to think of it, how does
consistent training make it bigger? When a person gets better at long
rides by doing lots of long rides, what exactly is changing inside one's
body?



--
- Frank Krygowski


  #34  
Old May 27th 20, 06:04 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
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Default Bonking + Bicycles

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 7:59:55 PM UTC-5, news18 wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2020 13:24:12 -0700, wrote:

I always laugh and chuckle when people yip and yap about bonking and
running out of sugar. Ha Ha. Just people making up nonsense. Unless
you are a Type 1 diabetic, or maybe maybe Type 2 also, you cannot get a
low blood sugar. The human body does not allow blood sugars to fall
very low. The Islets of Langerhans inside the pancreas produce the
hormone insulin. This is injected into the blood stream and works with
the glucose in the blood to keep the blood sugar at a fairly constant
level. No matter how much you exercise and no matter how much or little
you eat, the non-diabetic body is excellent at regulating the blood
sugar to keep blood sugar at a very constant normal level. Your blood
sugar does not go up and down in a non-diabetic.


Congratulation, you know the medical theory, but in practise it can be
different. Firstly, response; if the body isn't trained/practised as
responding to sustained exercise, then it may not respond so swiftly.


Blood sugar going up
and down is similar to a person saying they stopped their heart from
beating for a minute or two.


It isn't. That is a very poor analogy. However, with training, some
people can regulate their heart and some to very slow. I still wonder
about the old people who just literally lay down and die.


Do you believe people can manually control
whether their heart beats? If you do then you likely will also believe
your blood sugar goes up and down.


It does. Just ask a diabetic. Hint, the condition of diabetes isn't just
a switch. it appearts to be a gradual slide into the condition and the
type is determined by the speed of response, if any to blood glucose
levels. Type 1 & 2 are just another division to classify the remaining
level of response. Some, older, experienced endocrynologist often talk
about five or more types/classification based on observation of patients


No. Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes are both called diabetes. But they are not really related. Type 1 is a non functioning of the pancreas producing the hormone insulin. Type 2 is the body not using the insulin produced correctly. Both can end up with the same affect.
  #35  
Old May 27th 20, 07:14 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Rolf Mantel[_2_]
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Posts: 267
Default Bonking + Bicycles

Am 27.05.2020 um 06:43 schrieb :
On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 4:18:40 PM UTC-5,
wrote:
On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 10:24:14 PM UTC+2,
wrote:
I always laugh and chuckle when people yip and yap about bonking
and running out of sugar. Ha Ha. Just people making up
nonsense. Unless you are a Type 1 diabetic, or maybe maybe Type
2 also, you cannot get a low blood sugar. The human body does
not allow blood sugars to fall very low. The Islets of
Langerhans inside the pancreas produce the hormone insulin. This
is injected into the blood stream and works with the glucose in
the blood to keep the blood sugar at a fairly constant level. No
matter how much you exercise and no matter how much or little you
eat, the non-diabetic body is excellent at regulating the blood
sugar to keep blood sugar at a very constant normal level. Your
blood sugar does not go up and down in a non-diabetic. Blood
sugar going up and down is similar to a person saying they
stopped their heart from beating for a minute or two. Do you
believe people can manually control whether their heart beats?
If you do then you likely will also believe your blood sugar goes
up and down.


And what causes the symptoms we call bonking and go away when we
eat sugary food. Or does this also not happen?


Its called getting tired. Your muscles get tired from use. And when
you stop you get rest. And maybe, possibly, you drink something and
get rehydrated. But your BLOOPD SUGAR, the amount of glucose in your
blood stream, remains very stable. Your endocrine system,
specifically your pancreas, keeps your blood sugar very stable. It
has to do that to allow your body to work properly. Remember your
heart and lungs are muscles and are always working. They need a
constant source of energy to function correctly. And all the rest of
the cells in your body need a continuous, constant amount of
sugar/energy to operate correctly. Your body, and all animal bodies,
is very good at this task. All animal bodies keep blood sugars
constant. Or else the animal dies.


Animals do not exceed their sustainable efforts for days on end, humans
are able to. On a race from Berlin to Vienna in the 1850's, the human
runner won because the horse died of exhaustion.


  #36  
Old May 27th 20, 07:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
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Posts: 1,131
Default Bonking + Bicycles

On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:04:52 -0700, wrote:

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 7:59:55 PM UTC-5, news18 wrote:
On Tue, 26 May 2020 13:24:12 -0700,
wrote:

I always laugh and chuckle when people yip and yap about bonking and
running out of sugar. Ha Ha. Just people making up nonsense.
Unless you are a Type 1 diabetic, or maybe maybe Type 2 also, you
cannot get a low blood sugar. The human body does not allow blood
sugars to fall very low. The Islets of Langerhans inside the
pancreas produce the hormone insulin. This is injected into the
blood stream and works with the glucose in the blood to keep the
blood sugar at a fairly constant level. No matter how much you
exercise and no matter how much or little you eat, the non-diabetic
body is excellent at regulating the blood sugar to keep blood sugar
at a very constant normal level. Your blood sugar does not go up and
down in a non-diabetic.


Congratulation, you know the medical theory, but in practise it can be
different. Firstly, response; if the body isn't trained/practised as
responding to sustained exercise, then it may not respond so swiftly.


Blood sugar going up
and down is similar to a person saying they stopped their heart from
beating for a minute or two.


It isn't. That is a very poor analogy. However, with training, some
people can regulate their heart and some to very slow. I still wonder
about the old people who just literally lay down and die.


Do you believe people can manually control whether their heart beats?
If you do then you likely will also believe your blood sugar goes up
and down.


It does. Just ask a diabetic. Hint, the condition of diabetes isn't
just a switch. it appearts to be a gradual slide into the condition and
the type is determined by the speed of response, if any to blood
glucose levels. Type 1 & 2 are just another division to classify the
remaining level of response. Some, older, experienced endocrynologist
often talk about five or more types/classification based on observation
of patients


No. Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes are both called diabetes. But they are
not really related. Type 1 is a non functioning of the pancreas
producing the hormone insulin. Type 2 is the body not using the insulin
produced correctly. Both can end up with the same affect.


Are you saying that they are caused by two entirely different sets of
genes?
  #38  
Old May 27th 20, 11:42 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
news18
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Posts: 1,131
Default Bonking + Bicycles

On Wed, 27 May 2020 08:58:18 +0200, Rolf Mantel wrote:

Am 27.05.2020 um 08:34 schrieb news18:
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:04:52 -0700, wrote:

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 7:59:55 PM UTC-5, news18 wrote:


Just ask a diabetic. Hint, the condition of diabetes isn't just a
switch. it appearts to be a gradual slide into the condition and the
type is determined by the speed of response, if any to blood glucose
levels. Type 1 & 2 are just another division to classify the
remaining level of response. Some, older, experienced endocrynologist
often talk about five or more types/classification based on
observation of patients

No. Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes are both called diabetes. But they
are not really related. Type 1 is a non functioning of the pancreas
producing the hormone insulin. Type 2 is the body not using the
insulin produced correctly. Both can end up with the same affect.


Are you saying that they are caused by two entirely different sets of
genes?


Type 1 is a genetic defect with typical onset in teenage years. Type 2
diabetes is more a lifestyle or nutrition-related "old-age" effect with
typical onset in the 40's, only recent wide-spread obesity has brought
type 2 diabetes with early onset.


Those are the sterotypes advanced by medical interests. Not to say they
might be factors for some people, but sadly, there are anerexic (sp?)
type 2 that are not explained by the above.

  #39  
Old May 27th 20, 12:07 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Rolf Mantel[_2_]
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Posts: 267
Default Bonking + Bicycles

Am 27.05.2020 um 12:42 schrieb news18:
On Wed, 27 May 2020 08:58:18 +0200, Rolf Mantel wrote:

Am 27.05.2020 um 08:34 schrieb news18:
On Tue, 26 May 2020 22:04:52 -0700, wrote:

On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 7:59:55 PM UTC-5, news18 wrote:


Just ask a diabetic. Hint, the condition of diabetes isn't just a
switch. it appearts to be a gradual slide into the condition and the
type is determined by the speed of response, if any to blood glucose
levels. Type 1 & 2 are just another division to classify the
remaining level of response. Some, older, experienced endocrynologist
often talk about five or more types/classification based on
observation of patients

No. Type 1 and Type 2 diabetes are both called diabetes. But they
are not really related. Type 1 is a non functioning of the pancreas
producing the hormone insulin. Type 2 is the body not using the
insulin produced correctly. Both can end up with the same affect.

Are you saying that they are caused by two entirely different sets of
genes?


Type 1 is a genetic defect with typical onset in teenage years. Type 2
diabetes is more a lifestyle or nutrition-related "old-age" effect with
typical onset in the 40's, only recent wide-spread obesity has brought
type 2 diabetes with early onset.


Those are the sterotypes advanced by medical interests. Not to say they
might be factors for some people, but sadly, there are anerexic (sp?)
type 2 that are not explained by the above.


Anorexia seems to screw up the regulation circuits just as much as
over-supply of glucogen. In both scenarios, the body triggers massive
insuline creation with little effect on blood sugar levels, which
somehow appears to trigger auto-immune reactions; at least this was the
"explanation that even you Mathematicians can understand" in a
presentation about mathematical models of pancreatig beta cells some 25
years ago, IIRC.

Rolf

  #40  
Old May 27th 20, 02:36 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default Bonking + Bicycles

On 5/26/2020 11:43 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 4:18:40 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, May 26, 2020 at 10:24:14 PM UTC+2, wrote:
I always laugh and chuckle when people yip and yap about bonking and running out of sugar. Ha Ha. Just people making up nonsense. Unless you are a Type 1 diabetic, or maybe maybe Type 2 also, you cannot get a low blood sugar. The human body does not allow blood sugars to fall very low. The Islets of Langerhans inside the pancreas produce the hormone insulin. This is injected into the blood stream and works with the glucose in the blood to keep the blood sugar at a fairly constant level. No matter how much you exercise and no matter how much or little you eat, the non-diabetic body is excellent at regulating the blood sugar to keep blood sugar at a very constant normal level. Your blood sugar does not go up and down in a non-diabetic. Blood sugar going up and down is similar to a person saying they stopped their heart from beating for a minute or two. Do you believe people can manually control whether their heart beats? If you do then you likely will also believe your

blood sugar goes up and down.


And what causes the symptoms we call bonking and go away when we eat sugary food. Or does this also not happen?


Lou


Its called getting tired. Your muscles get tired from use. And when you stop you get rest. And maybe, possibly, you drink something and get rehydrated. But your BLOOPD SUGAR, the amount of glucose in your blood stream, remains very stable. Your endocrine system, specifically your pancreas, keeps your blood sugar very stable. It has to do that to allow your body to work properly. Remember your heart and lungs are muscles and are always working. They need a constant source of energy to function correctly. And all the rest of the cells in your body need a continuous, constant amount of sugar/energy to operate correctly. Your body, and all animal bodies, is very good at this task. All animal bodies keep blood sugars constant. Or else the animal dies.


I'm not an expert on physiology but fatigue and bonk are not
the same thing.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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