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#111
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French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:00:36 -0700, "GaryG"
wrote: "RonSonic" wrote in message .. . On 25 Jul 2006 18:05:09 -0700, "chalo colina" wrote: RonSonic wrote: Chalo wrote: _I'm_ a leftist. Zoot is a leftist. Those public figures you mentioned may be left of _your_ position, but just because they are in opposition to Fascism does not make them leftists. That's like calling someone a health fanatic because they don't want to get cancer. If you are using the word "Fascism" to describe anything happening in modern American mainstream politics then you are either far ****ing out there beyond the radical left fringe or just an ignorant piece of **** who will say anything in insult of those he disagrees with. Pol Pot was a radical leftist; I'm not. Actually, I'd argue that deranged tyrants of all stripes are outside the political spectrum. A Duvalier or a Saddam or a Pol Pot grew out of entirely different political traditions but are otherwise goons drunk on power and paranoia. That is more important than whatever words they hang on the fact that they control the finances. I'm representative of the mainstream Left as it exists in the First World (which is to say the EU, Commonwealth, etc.) However, if the Right in the USA insists on shutting out and marginalizing moderate leftist discourse from the media and public political discussion (and succeeds in its efforts to promote squalor among a majority of the population), then in due course a Pol-Pot-style hard leftist will arise and give them what they have been richly asking for. I would welcome some moderate leftist discourse. Instead we get people who think anyone who disagrees with them on any point is a fascist. And from the right...anyone who disagrees with the current Trillion Dollar Debacle is labelled as "anti-American", or a "supporter of the evildoers", etc. Which, ironically enough, opens the door wide for real fascists. A creature that does not actually exist anywhere in the American political mainstream, right or left. They do occasionally surface and usually accuse their enemies of being the fascists. When the American Right finally reap what they have sown so far, they can count themselves *extremely* lucky if it comes in the form of a benevolent populist reformer like Hugo Chavez. That's what I'm rooting for, because for the Right to get what they _actually deserve_ would brutalize us as a nation. I'm just sayin'. You seem to have left that Fascism thing behind. Good. What evil do you think deserves something destructive? Have you read any history of this country or any other? Or do you just get the Noam Chomsky version? In either case you really are the kind of treasonous **** we were complaining about having hijacked the Democrat party. You need a refresher course on what sorts of things constitute treason, my lad. To wit: Lying to the country to go to war on false pretexts - treason No, we still know the sandbox needed to be cleaned out. You may quibble with some point of the particulars, but of the many reasons to invade Iraq an overwhelming sufficiency remains. What were they "cleaning out" in Iraq? There were a lot more terrorists present in Saudi Arabia in 2001 than in Iraq. And the diplomatic consequences of the "sandbox cleaning" will be felt for decades (in addition to costing trillions of dollars, tens of thousands of lives, and serving the terrorists as a recruiting tool for years to come). Face it, the Bush policy in Iraq will go down in history as one of the biggest Cluster ****s ever. GG Stealing Federal elections by fraud and collusion - treason What, you mean like the vote for governer of Washington that was eventually recounted into the "correct" outcome. Pretty much the same way someone tri ed to manipulate the Presidential tally in Florida. The Daley family goons weren't allowed to pull that one off, is that what you're upset about. Undermining national security and international trust by violating longstanding international treaties - treason Oh, this is just silly. I'm sorry I cannot answer everything you make up. Operating illegal secret prisons and torture centers in the public name - treason Revoking Constitutionally guaranteed basic rights for political gain - treason See, you are just making this stuff up. Or someone else made it up and you're too ignorant to know it. You don't seem dumb enough to not know better. Speaking out against the above - not treason You've got the right to run your mouth and say most any stupid thing that pleases you. I'll exercise my right to point out that you have bought into a pile of whack from the internet fever swamps. You also seem to have missed my earlier assessment of the Democratic Party as a pack of scoundrels, toadies, and collaborators. I wouldn't vote for a Democrat in a typical election even if they gave me three more votes to spend on a Green. So I am clearly not what's wrong with the Democrats. What's wrong with the Democrats is that they are the "good cop" in a colossal con game to end what meager few opportunities for democracy still exist in this corrupt system. Oh bull****. There are not overarching conspiracies and grand con games. There are often unfortunate historical trends and popular hysterias. Those are more to be feared than your whatever the hell it is, illuminati, trilateralists or whatever smack they've got where you come from. Okay, so you don't vote Democrat. I'll hope they get the memo and stop trying to appeal to you. Go burn a flag or something. Go burn some books or something. FOAD while you're at it. Actually I'd recommend keeping and reading the books. Especially the old ones. Try some. Ron Chalo Bottom Line: Liberals are pussies. Amnesty for terrorists that kill Americans? Constitutional rights for terrorists that kill Americans? |
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#112
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French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:00:36 -0700, "GaryG" wrote:
I would welcome some moderate leftist discourse. Instead we get people who think anyone who disagrees with them on any point is a fascist. And from the right...anyone who disagrees with the current Trillion Dollar Debacle is labelled as "anti-American", or a "supporter of the evildoers", etc. Not really. There's a lot of room for important discussion that is not being used. No, we still know the sandbox needed to be cleaned out. You may quibble with some point of the particulars, but of the many reasons to invade Iraq an overwhelming sufficiency remains. What were they "cleaning out" in Iraq? There were a lot more terrorists present in Saudi Arabia in 2001 than in Iraq. And the diplomatic consequences of the "sandbox cleaning" will be felt for decades (in addition to costing trillions of dollars, tens of thousands of lives, and serving the terrorists as a recruiting tool for years to come). Face it, the Bush policy in Iraq will go down in history as one of the biggest Cluster ****s ever. At some point the status quo of the middle east had to change. The preference for "stability" had created an untenable situation. Iraq was turning into another North Korea and one of those is already too many. As expensive as the war in Iraq has been, it was undertaken knowing it would be costly and with the understanding that inaction would be worse. Of those terrorists living in Saudi Arabia, did they have the guy who mixed the bomb for the world trade center living on an expense account? Didn't think so. Ron GG Stealing Federal elections by fraud and collusion - treason What, you mean like the vote for governer of Washington that was eventually recounted into the "correct" outcome. Pretty much the same way someone tri ed to manipulate the Presidential tally in Florida. The Daley family goons weren't allowed to pull that one off, is that what you're upset about. Undermining national security and international trust by violating longstanding international treaties - treason Oh, this is just silly. I'm sorry I cannot answer everything you make up. Operating illegal secret prisons and torture centers in the public name - treason Revoking Constitutionally guaranteed basic rights for political gain - treason See, you are just making this stuff up. Or someone else made it up and you're too ignorant to know it. You don't seem dumb enough to not know better. Speaking out against the above - not treason You've got the right to run your mouth and say most any stupid thing that pleases you. I'll exercise my right to point out that you have bought into a pile of whack from the internet fever swamps. You also seem to have missed my earlier assessment of the Democratic Party as a pack of scoundrels, toadies, and collaborators. I wouldn't vote for a Democrat in a typical election even if they gave me three more votes to spend on a Green. So I am clearly not what's wrong with the Democrats. What's wrong with the Democrats is that they are the "good cop" in a colossal con game to end what meager few opportunities for democracy still exist in this corrupt system. Oh bull****. There are not overarching conspiracies and grand con games. There are often unfortunate historical trends and popular hysterias. Those are more to be feared than your whatever the hell it is, illuminati, trilateralists or whatever smack they've got where you come from. Okay, so you don't vote Democrat. I'll hope they get the memo and stop trying to appeal to you. Go burn a flag or something. Go burn some books or something. FOAD while you're at it. Actually I'd recommend keeping and reading the books. Especially the old ones. Try some. Ron Chalo |
#113
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French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong
In article ,
RonSonic wrote: for "stability" had created an untenable situation. Iraq was turning into another North Korea and one of those is already too many. As expensive as the you are truly brain washed. or just plain stupid. the war in iraq was justified by doctored intelligence. even republicans with brains recognized it now. where are the wmd? the "mushroom cloud" and the rest of the lies? (poor colin powell who ruined what was left of his reputation with his speech to the u.n.) iraq a new north korea!? you realy live in a hole. war in Iraq has been, it was undertaken knowing it would be costly and with false. they said the revenues of oil will pay for the war and reconstruction. it's on record. Of those terrorists living in Saudi Arabia, did they have the guy who mixed you are so confused, misinformed, lied to, and asking for more. Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com |
#114
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French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong
In article
. com, " wrote: Michael Press wrote: " wrote: empress of the radical left" meme? Saying it is not necessary to study the culture, it is enough to live in it, sounds like it is itself a conclusion drawn from study of the culture. Let's distinguish culture and popular culture. The former must be studied, the latter is experienced. The former is Euclid, history of events, geography, plastic arts, masters of the language, religious ideals, natural history, technology, and the like. One cannot help but be aware of popular culture. How does one deal with it? By taking it seriously? Ideas, catch-phrases, songs, moral issues, political slogans, joke cycles, advertising jingles ... Popular culture is like one overarching laugh-track. Who studies popular culture, why, and what have they done for me? I say `live creatively in it'. Look behind the curtain and keep a level head. Rule of thumb: the more something is repeated, the more it cries out for investigation. As for culture I do not want metaphors, I want the thing itself. Knowing geometry is to change oneself, whereas the content of the Pythagorean theorem is just one more fact. What do various religious texts say, divorced from what religious leaders say they mean? How do I view famous paintings, and what is going on in them? Memorizing passages from master writers changes me. I think that a better comparison for meme is `contagion', but that is not salable. -- Michael Press |
#115
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French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong
On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:21:20 GMT, Michael Press wrote:
In article .com, " wrote: Michael Press wrote: " wrote: empress of the radical left" meme? Saying it is not necessary to study the culture, it is enough to live in it, sounds like it is itself a conclusion drawn from study of the culture. Let's distinguish culture and popular culture. The former must be studied, the latter is experienced. The former is Euclid, history of events, geography, plastic arts, masters of the language, religious ideals, natural history, technology, and the like. One cannot help but be aware of popular culture. How does one deal with it? By taking it seriously? Ideas, catch-phrases, songs, moral issues, political slogans, joke cycles, advertising jingles ... Popular culture is like one overarching laugh-track. Who studies popular culture, why, and what have they done for me? I say `live creatively in it'. Look behind the curtain and keep a level head. Rule of thumb: the more something is repeated, the more it cries out for investigation. As for culture I do not want metaphors, I want the thing itself. Knowing geometry is to change oneself, whereas the content of the Pythagorean theorem is just one more fact. What do various religious texts say, divorced from what religious leaders say they mean? How do I view famous paintings, and what is going on in them? Memorizing passages from master writers changes me. I think that a better comparison for meme is `contagion', but that is not salable. As I recall that was the original conception of meme, an idea or outlook that spread from one to another. Part of the appeal was the idea of "viral marketing" that one could inject an idea, a meme into the zeitgeist and have it spread. Ron |
#116
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French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong
On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:07:26 -0500, "M. Bakunin" wrote:
In article , RonSonic wrote: for "stability" had created an untenable situation. Iraq was turning into another North Korea and one of those is already too many. As expensive as the you are truly brain washed. or just plain stupid. the war in iraq was justified by doctored intelligence. even republicans with brains recognized it now. where are the wmd? the "mushroom cloud" and the rest of the lies? (poor colin powell who ruined what was left of his reputation with his speech to the u.n.) iraq a new north korea!? you realy live in a hole. war in Iraq has been, it was undertaken knowing it would be costly and with false. they said the revenues of oil will pay for the war and reconstruction. it's on record. Of those terrorists living in Saudi Arabia, did they have the guy who mixed you are so confused, misinformed, lied to, and asking for more. Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com Statement on U.S. Led Military Strike Against Iraq As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process. The responsibility of the United States in this conflict is to eliminate weapons of mass destruction, to minimize the danger to our troops and to diminish the suffering of the Iraqi people. The citizens of Iraq have suffered the most for Saddam Hussein's activities; sadly, those same citizens now stand to suffer more. I have supported efforts to ease the humanitarian situation in Iraq and my thoughts and prayers are with the innocent Iraqi civilians, as well as with the families of U.S. troops participating in the current action. I believe in negotiated solutions to international conflict. This is, unfortunately, not going to be the case in this situation where Saddam Hussein has been a repeat offender, ignoring the international community's requirement that he come clean with his weapons program. While I support the President, I hope and pray that this conflict can be resolved quickly and that the international community can find a lasting solution through diplomatic means. |
#117
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French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong
"M. Bakunin" wrote:
In article , RonSonic wrote: Instead we get people who think anyone who disagrees with them on any point is a fascist. Maybe in this case it is justified: by-passing or ignoring the Constitution and the law of the lands to achieve their goal certainly qualify. Your opinion, apparently not shared by anyone who could actually bring charges if there was a basis. Look at establishing military tribunal to judge people out of their jurisdiction, I guess we were "out of our jurisdiction" when we took POWs in WWII as well? I predict the administration will be given the authority to hold a military tribunal for the POWs they hold, all nice and legal. They certainly don't deserve the rights of a US citizen. normalizing 'rendition', so torture can be used, Just how far below the threshold of Geneva Convention techniques does the US have to stay to keep you happy? spying on U.S. citizens inside the U.S.A., So let me get your opinion on this... if a phone call comes in from overseas from someone who's a known Al Qaeda contact, you don't think we should be listening to it? Would it really surprise you to learn that most people think that's NOT a problem? etc... etc... add up the bull**** "you're with us or against us", "the axis of evil", the "crusade", the systematic smear campaigns against anyone who dare to speak up, and you may get a clue of why people with some kind of political education call them fascists. If you had a political education, or had actually lived in a fascist state, I suspect you'd know better than to try to make the comparison. Democracy? This is the biggest hoax of all time in the USA of the 21st century. It's not a democracy, it's a PLUTOCRACY. Energy policy written by energy companies, health policies written by pharmaceutical companies and health providers, personal bankruptcy laws written by banks and credit card companies, tax cut for the wealthiest (like if their greed will push them to re-invest in the sake of national interest!), etc... etc... Sigh... I've never heard of a society where the rich and influential commerce kings have influence on the government - how unique to the Bush administration! LOL. Smells like germany 1936. You were saying something about "having a political education", then you go and say something like that. Which is it? Or was it a "political indoctrination"? With the mass so stupid that they don't even realize that their freedom is taken away, piece by piece, So tell me, what freedoms have YOU personally lost in the last five years? Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $795 ti frame |
#118
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French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong
Chalo wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote: There's a very fine but definite line between people like you who call Bush an idiot (granted he's a horrible speaker and yet he's been elected POTUS /twice/) "Elected". With the help of some massive election fraud and the intervention of a traitorous Supreme Court. I guess the PRI candidates in Mexico purported to be "elected" all those years too. I tend to believe in lots of little election fraud, rather than the big push theory myself. I think the rather vicious disenfranchisement of minorities during the registration periods, and the very slimey blocking of the franchise done by falsely putting many black voters on the felon roles in the Florida elections the first time around were particularly effective. and those who hate him so much that they actively undermine nearly everything he does. The far-far left (Soros, Sheehan, Moore... Chalo LOL ) is high-jacking the Democratic party; no brainwashing required to see that. Soros isn't "far-far left", he's just smart and rich, with the perspective that comes from knowing what goes on outside the US. Now, now, anyone who realizes that one should not bind the mouth of the kine that treads the grain is obviously up to no good. -- Dane Buson - "The chief obstacle to the progress of the human race is the human race." -Don Marquis |
#119
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French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong
RonSonic wrote:
On 24 Jul 2006 21:01:27 -0700, "Chalo" wrote: _I'm_ a leftist. Zoot is a leftist. Those public figures you mentioned may be left of _your_ position, but just because they are in opposition to Fascism does not make them leftists. That's like calling someone a health fanatic because they don't want to get cancer. If you are using the word "Fascism" to describe anything happening in modern American mainstream politics then you are either far ****ing out there beyond the radical left fringe or just an ignorant piece of **** who will say anything in insult of those he disagrees with. " ... the word ???Fascism??? is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal punishment, fox hunting, bullfighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941 Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what else." -- George Orwell See, and that's the problem with using a nice technical political term that really means something to the effect of: "Fascism is also typified by totalitarian attempts to impose state control over all aspects of life: political, social, cultural, and economic. The fascist state regulates and controls (as opposed to nationalizing) the means of production. Fascism exalts the nation, state, or race as superior to the individuals, institutions, or groups composing it. Fascism uses explicit populist rhetoric; calls for a heroic mass effort to restore past greatness; and demands loyalty to a single leader, often to the point of a cult of personality." Well, we certainly seem to be hitting a lot of high points on the list: Demand loyalty to a single leader - check Cult of personality - check Explicit populist rhetoric - check Exalting the nation - check In either case you really are the kind of treasonous **** we were complaining about having hijacked the Democrat party. Ah, raising the tone of the discussion. Excellent. Go burn a flag or something. But, but, all I have on hand are Gay Rainbow flags... I'm almost positive there's a joke in there somewhere. -- Dane Buson - "There is of course also Advocaat, aka 'alcoholic custard', which is the proverbial dessert topping and floor wax. Especially if you've got a bottle with a dodgy lid and then eagerly follow the instructions to shake before use. "Ah. Alcoholic bukkake." - responding to Peter in asr |
#120
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French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong
RonSonic wrote:
At some point the status quo of the middle east had to change. The preference for "stability" had created an untenable situation. Iraq was turning into another North Korea and one of those is already too many. As expensive as the war in Iraq has been, it was undertaken knowing it would be costly We were told that it would pay for itself with oil money. and with the understanding that inaction would be worse. MIS-understanding, you must mean. Robert |
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