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French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong



 
 
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  #111  
Old July 26th 06, 11:07 PM posted to alt.non.racism,rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles.misc
R Brickston
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Posts: 1,582
Default French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:00:36 -0700, "GaryG"
wrote:

"RonSonic" wrote in message
.. .
On 25 Jul 2006 18:05:09 -0700, "chalo colina"

wrote:

RonSonic wrote:

Chalo wrote:

_I'm_ a leftist. Zoot is a leftist. Those public figures you
mentioned may be left of _your_ position, but just because they are in
opposition to Fascism does not make them leftists. That's like

calling
someone a health fanatic because they don't want to get cancer.

If you are using the word "Fascism" to describe anything happening in

modern
American mainstream politics then you are either far ****ing out there

beyond
the radical left fringe or just an ignorant piece of **** who will say

anything
in insult of those he disagrees with.

Pol Pot was a radical leftist; I'm not.


Actually, I'd argue that deranged tyrants of all stripes are outside the
political spectrum. A Duvalier or a Saddam or a Pol Pot grew out of

entirely
different political traditions but are otherwise goons drunk on power and
paranoia. That is more important than whatever words they hang on the fact

that
they control the finances.

I'm representative of the
mainstream Left as it exists in the First World (which is to say the
EU, Commonwealth, etc.) However, if the Right in the USA insists on
shutting out and marginalizing moderate leftist discourse from the
media and public political discussion (and succeeds in its efforts to
promote squalor among a majority of the population), then in due course
a Pol-Pot-style hard leftist will arise and give them what they have
been richly asking for.


I would welcome some moderate leftist discourse. Instead we get people who

think
anyone who disagrees with them on any point is a fascist.


And from the right...anyone who disagrees with the current Trillion Dollar
Debacle is labelled as "anti-American", or a "supporter of the evildoers",
etc.

Which, ironically
enough, opens the door wide for real fascists. A creature that does not

actually
exist anywhere in the American political mainstream, right or left. They

do
occasionally surface and usually accuse their enemies of being the

fascists.

When the American Right finally reap what they have sown so far, they
can count themselves *extremely* lucky if it comes in the form of a
benevolent populist reformer like Hugo Chavez. That's what I'm rooting
for, because for the Right to get what they _actually deserve_ would
brutalize us as a nation. I'm just sayin'.


You seem to have left that Fascism thing behind. Good.

What evil do you think deserves something destructive? Have you read any

history
of this country or any other? Or do you just get the Noam Chomsky version?

In either case you really are the kind of treasonous **** we were

complaining
about having hijacked the Democrat party.

You need a refresher course on what sorts of things constitute treason,
my lad. To wit:

Lying to the country to go to war on false pretexts - treason


No, we still know the sandbox needed to be cleaned out. You may quibble

with
some point of the particulars, but of the many reasons to invade Iraq an
overwhelming sufficiency remains.


What were they "cleaning out" in Iraq? There were a lot more terrorists
present in Saudi Arabia in 2001 than in Iraq. And the diplomatic
consequences of the "sandbox cleaning" will be felt for decades (in addition
to costing trillions of dollars, tens of thousands of lives, and serving the
terrorists as a recruiting tool for years to come).

Face it, the Bush policy in Iraq will go down in history as one of the
biggest Cluster ****s ever.

GG


Stealing Federal elections by fraud and collusion - treason


What, you mean like the vote for governer of Washington that was

eventually
recounted into the "correct" outcome. Pretty much the same way someone tri

ed to
manipulate the Presidential tally in Florida. The Daley family goons

weren't
allowed to pull that one off, is that what you're upset about.

Undermining national security and international trust by violating
longstanding international treaties - treason


Oh, this is just silly. I'm sorry I cannot answer everything you make up.

Operating illegal secret prisons and torture centers in the public name
- treason

Revoking Constitutionally guaranteed basic rights for political gain -
treason


See, you are just making this stuff up. Or someone else made it up and

you're
too ignorant to know it. You don't seem dumb enough to not know better.

Speaking out against the above - not treason


You've got the right to run your mouth and say most any stupid thing that
pleases you. I'll exercise my right to point out that you have bought into

a
pile of whack from the internet fever swamps.

You also seem to have missed my earlier assessment of the Democratic
Party as a pack of scoundrels, toadies, and collaborators. I wouldn't
vote for a Democrat in a typical election even if they gave me three
more votes to spend on a Green. So I am clearly not what's wrong with
the Democrats. What's wrong with the Democrats is that they are the
"good cop" in a colossal con game to end what meager few opportunities
for democracy still exist in this corrupt system.


Oh bull****. There are not overarching conspiracies and grand con games.

There
are often unfortunate historical trends and popular hysterias. Those are

more to
be feared than your whatever the hell it is, illuminati, trilateralists or
whatever smack they've got where you come from.

Okay, so you don't vote Democrat. I'll hope they get the memo and stop

trying to
appeal to you.

Go burn a flag or something.

Go burn some books or something. FOAD while you're at it.


Actually I'd recommend keeping and reading the books. Especially the old

ones.
Try some.

Ron

Chalo



Bottom Line: Liberals are pussies. Amnesty for terrorists that kill
Americans? Constitutional rights for terrorists that kill Americans?
Ads
  #112  
Old July 27th 06, 12:28 AM posted to alt.non.racism,rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles.misc
RonSonic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,658
Default French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 07:00:36 -0700, "GaryG" wrote:


I would welcome some moderate leftist discourse. Instead we get people who

think
anyone who disagrees with them on any point is a fascist.


And from the right...anyone who disagrees with the current Trillion Dollar
Debacle is labelled as "anti-American", or a "supporter of the evildoers",
etc.


Not really. There's a lot of room for important discussion that is not being
used.

No, we still know the sandbox needed to be cleaned out. You may quibble with
some point of the particulars, but of the many reasons to invade Iraq an
overwhelming sufficiency remains.


What were they "cleaning out" in Iraq? There were a lot more terrorists
present in Saudi Arabia in 2001 than in Iraq. And the diplomatic
consequences of the "sandbox cleaning" will be felt for decades (in addition
to costing trillions of dollars, tens of thousands of lives, and serving the
terrorists as a recruiting tool for years to come).

Face it, the Bush policy in Iraq will go down in history as one of the
biggest Cluster ****s ever.


At some point the status quo of the middle east had to change. The preference
for "stability" had created an untenable situation. Iraq was turning into
another North Korea and one of those is already too many. As expensive as the
war in Iraq has been, it was undertaken knowing it would be costly and with the
understanding that inaction would be worse.

Of those terrorists living in Saudi Arabia, did they have the guy who mixed the
bomb for the world trade center living on an expense account? Didn't think so.

Ron



GG


Stealing Federal elections by fraud and collusion - treason


What, you mean like the vote for governer of Washington that was

eventually
recounted into the "correct" outcome. Pretty much the same way someone tri

ed to
manipulate the Presidential tally in Florida. The Daley family goons

weren't
allowed to pull that one off, is that what you're upset about.

Undermining national security and international trust by violating
longstanding international treaties - treason


Oh, this is just silly. I'm sorry I cannot answer everything you make up.

Operating illegal secret prisons and torture centers in the public name
- treason

Revoking Constitutionally guaranteed basic rights for political gain -
treason


See, you are just making this stuff up. Or someone else made it up and

you're
too ignorant to know it. You don't seem dumb enough to not know better.

Speaking out against the above - not treason


You've got the right to run your mouth and say most any stupid thing that
pleases you. I'll exercise my right to point out that you have bought into

a
pile of whack from the internet fever swamps.

You also seem to have missed my earlier assessment of the Democratic
Party as a pack of scoundrels, toadies, and collaborators. I wouldn't
vote for a Democrat in a typical election even if they gave me three
more votes to spend on a Green. So I am clearly not what's wrong with
the Democrats. What's wrong with the Democrats is that they are the
"good cop" in a colossal con game to end what meager few opportunities
for democracy still exist in this corrupt system.


Oh bull****. There are not overarching conspiracies and grand con games.

There
are often unfortunate historical trends and popular hysterias. Those are

more to
be feared than your whatever the hell it is, illuminati, trilateralists or
whatever smack they've got where you come from.

Okay, so you don't vote Democrat. I'll hope they get the memo and stop

trying to
appeal to you.

Go burn a flag or something.

Go burn some books or something. FOAD while you're at it.


Actually I'd recommend keeping and reading the books. Especially the old

ones.
Try some.

Ron

Chalo


  #113  
Old July 27th 06, 01:07 AM posted to alt.non.racism,rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles.misc
M. Bakunin
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Posts: 82
Default French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong

In article ,
RonSonic wrote:

for "stability" had created an untenable situation. Iraq was turning into
another North Korea and one of those is already too many. As expensive as the


you are truly brain washed. or just plain stupid. the war in iraq was
justified by doctored intelligence. even republicans with brains
recognized it now. where are the wmd? the "mushroom cloud" and the rest
of the lies? (poor colin powell who ruined what was left of his
reputation with his speech to the u.n.)
iraq a new north korea!? you realy live in a hole.

war in Iraq has been, it was undertaken knowing it would be costly and with


false. they said the revenues of oil will pay for the war and
reconstruction. it's on record.

Of those terrorists living in Saudi Arabia, did they have the guy who mixed


you are so confused, misinformed, lied to, and asking for more.

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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  #114  
Old July 27th 06, 01:21 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Michael Press
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,100
Default French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong

In article
. com,
" wrote:

Michael Press wrote:
" wrote:
empress of the radical left" meme?


Saying it is not necessary to study the culture, it is
enough to live in it, sounds like it is itself a conclusion
drawn from study of the culture.


Let's distinguish culture and popular culture. The former
must be studied, the latter is experienced. The former is
Euclid, history of events, geography, plastic arts,
masters of the language, religious ideals, natural
history, technology, and the like.

One cannot help but be aware of popular culture. How does
one deal with it? By taking it seriously? Ideas,
catch-phrases, songs, moral issues, political slogans,
joke cycles, advertising jingles ... Popular culture is
like one overarching laugh-track. Who studies popular
culture, why, and what have they done for me? I say `live
creatively in it'. Look behind the curtain and keep a
level head. Rule of thumb: the more something is repeated,
the more it cries out for investigation.

As for culture I do not want metaphors, I want the thing
itself. Knowing geometry is to change oneself, whereas the
content of the Pythagorean theorem is just one more fact.
What do various religious texts say, divorced from what
religious leaders say they mean? How do I view famous
paintings, and what is going on in them? Memorizing
passages from master writers changes me.

I think that a better comparison for meme is `contagion',
but that is not salable.

--
Michael Press
  #115  
Old July 27th 06, 02:29 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
RonSonic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,658
Default French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong

On Thu, 27 Jul 2006 00:21:20 GMT, Michael Press wrote:

In article
.com,
" wrote:

Michael Press wrote:
" wrote:
empress of the radical left" meme?

Saying it is not necessary to study the culture, it is
enough to live in it, sounds like it is itself a conclusion
drawn from study of the culture.


Let's distinguish culture and popular culture. The former
must be studied, the latter is experienced. The former is
Euclid, history of events, geography, plastic arts,
masters of the language, religious ideals, natural
history, technology, and the like.

One cannot help but be aware of popular culture. How does
one deal with it? By taking it seriously? Ideas,
catch-phrases, songs, moral issues, political slogans,
joke cycles, advertising jingles ... Popular culture is
like one overarching laugh-track. Who studies popular
culture, why, and what have they done for me? I say `live
creatively in it'. Look behind the curtain and keep a
level head. Rule of thumb: the more something is repeated,
the more it cries out for investigation.

As for culture I do not want metaphors, I want the thing
itself. Knowing geometry is to change oneself, whereas the
content of the Pythagorean theorem is just one more fact.
What do various religious texts say, divorced from what
religious leaders say they mean? How do I view famous
paintings, and what is going on in them? Memorizing
passages from master writers changes me.

I think that a better comparison for meme is `contagion',
but that is not salable.


As I recall that was the original conception of meme, an idea or outlook that
spread from one to another. Part of the appeal was the idea of "viral marketing"
that one could inject an idea, a meme into the zeitgeist and have it spread.

Ron
  #116  
Old July 27th 06, 03:50 AM posted to alt.non.racism,rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles.misc
R Brickston
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,582
Default French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong

On Wed, 26 Jul 2006 19:07:26 -0500, "M. Bakunin" wrote:

In article ,
RonSonic wrote:

for "stability" had created an untenable situation. Iraq was turning into
another North Korea and one of those is already too many. As expensive as the


you are truly brain washed. or just plain stupid. the war in iraq was
justified by doctored intelligence. even republicans with brains
recognized it now. where are the wmd? the "mushroom cloud" and the rest
of the lies? (poor colin powell who ruined what was left of his
reputation with his speech to the u.n.)
iraq a new north korea!? you realy live in a hole.

war in Iraq has been, it was undertaken knowing it would be costly and with


false. they said the revenues of oil will pay for the war and
reconstruction. it's on record.

Of those terrorists living in Saudi Arabia, did they have the guy who mixed


you are so confused, misinformed, lied to, and asking for more.

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
----------------------------------------------------------
** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
----------------------------------------------------------
http://www.usenet.com



Statement on U.S. Led Military Strike Against Iraq

As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware
that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue
of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in
the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a
threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the
weapons inspection process.

The responsibility of the United States in this conflict is to
eliminate weapons of mass destruction, to minimize the danger to our
troops and to diminish the suffering of the Iraqi people. The citizens
of Iraq have suffered the most for Saddam Hussein's activities; sadly,
those same citizens now stand to suffer more. I have supported efforts
to ease the humanitarian situation in Iraq and my thoughts and prayers
are with the innocent Iraqi civilians, as well as with the families of
U.S. troops participating in the current action.

I believe in negotiated solutions to international conflict. This is,
unfortunately, not going to be the case in this situation where Saddam
Hussein has been a repeat offender, ignoring the international
community's requirement that he come clean with his weapons program.
While I support the President, I hope and pray that this conflict can
be resolved quickly and that the international community can find a
lasting solution through diplomatic means.
  #117  
Old July 27th 06, 04:21 AM posted to alt.non.racism,rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles.misc
Mark Hickey
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Posts: 1,083
Default French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong

"M. Bakunin" wrote:

In article ,
RonSonic wrote:

Instead we get people who think
anyone who disagrees with them on any point is a fascist.


Maybe in this case it is justified: by-passing or ignoring the
Constitution and the law of the lands to achieve their goal certainly
qualify.


Your opinion, apparently not shared by anyone who could actually bring
charges if there was a basis.

Look at establishing military tribunal to judge people out of
their jurisdiction,


I guess we were "out of our jurisdiction" when we took POWs in WWII as
well? I predict the administration will be given the authority to
hold a military tribunal for the POWs they hold, all nice and legal.
They certainly don't deserve the rights of a US citizen.

normalizing 'rendition', so torture can be used,


Just how far below the threshold of Geneva Convention techniques does
the US have to stay to keep you happy?

spying on U.S. citizens inside the U.S.A.,


So let me get your opinion on this... if a phone call comes in from
overseas from someone who's a known Al Qaeda contact, you don't think
we should be listening to it? Would it really surprise you to learn
that most people think that's NOT a problem?

etc... etc... add up the
bull**** "you're with us or against us", "the axis of evil", the
"crusade", the systematic smear campaigns against anyone who dare to
speak up, and you may get a clue of why people with some kind of
political education call them fascists.


If you had a political education, or had actually lived in a fascist
state, I suspect you'd know better than to try to make the comparison.

Democracy? This is the biggest hoax of all time in the USA of the 21st
century. It's not a democracy, it's a PLUTOCRACY. Energy policy written
by energy companies, health policies written by pharmaceutical companies
and health providers, personal bankruptcy laws written by banks and
credit card companies, tax cut for the wealthiest (like if their greed
will push them to re-invest in the sake of national interest!), etc...
etc...


Sigh... I've never heard of a society where the rich and influential
commerce kings have influence on the government - how unique to the
Bush administration! LOL.

Smells like germany 1936.


You were saying something about "having a political education", then
you go and say something like that. Which is it? Or was it a
"political indoctrination"?

With the mass so stupid that they don't even
realize that their freedom is taken away, piece by piece,


So tell me, what freedoms have YOU personally lost in the last five
years?

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $795 ti frame
  #118  
Old July 27th 06, 05:13 AM posted to alt.non.racism,rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles.misc
Dane Buson
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Posts: 1,340
Default French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong

Chalo wrote:
Bill Sornson wrote:

There's a very fine but definite line between people like you who
call Bush an idiot (granted he's a horrible speaker and yet he's been
elected POTUS /twice/)


"Elected". With the help of some massive election fraud and the
intervention of a traitorous Supreme Court. I guess the PRI
candidates in Mexico purported to be "elected" all those years too.


I tend to believe in lots of little election fraud, rather than the big
push theory myself. I think the rather vicious disenfranchisement of
minorities during the registration periods, and the very slimey blocking
of the franchise done by falsely putting many black voters on the felon
roles in the Florida elections the first time around were particularly
effective.

and those who hate him so much that they actively undermine nearly
everything he does. The far-far left (Soros, Sheehan, Moore... Chalo
LOL ) is high-jacking the Democratic party; no brainwashing required
to see that.


Soros isn't "far-far left", he's just smart and rich, with the
perspective that comes from knowing what goes on outside the US.


Now, now, anyone who realizes that one should not bind the mouth of the
kine that treads the grain is obviously up to no good.

--
Dane Buson -
"The chief obstacle to the progress of the human race
is the human race." -Don Marquis
  #119  
Old July 27th 06, 05:25 AM posted to alt.non.racism,rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles.misc
Dane Buson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,340
Default French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong

RonSonic wrote:
On 24 Jul 2006 21:01:27 -0700, "Chalo" wrote:

_I'm_ a leftist. Zoot is a leftist. Those public figures you
mentioned may be left of _your_ position, but just because they are in
opposition to Fascism does not make them leftists. That's like calling
someone a health fanatic because they don't want to get cancer.


If you are using the word "Fascism" to describe anything happening in modern
American mainstream politics then you are either far ****ing out there beyond
the radical left fringe or just an ignorant piece of **** who will say anything
in insult of those he disagrees with.


" ... the word ???Fascism??? is almost entirely meaningless. In
conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I
have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, Social Credit, corporal
punishment, fox hunting, bullfighting, the 1922 Committee, the 1941
Committee, Kipling, Gandhi, Chiang Kai-Shek, homosexuality, Priestley's
broadcasts, Youth Hostels, astrology, women, dogs and I do not know what
else." -- George Orwell

See, and that's the problem with using a nice technical political term
that really means something to the effect of:

"Fascism is also typified by totalitarian attempts to impose state
control over all aspects of life: political, social, cultural, and
economic. The fascist state regulates and controls (as opposed to
nationalizing) the means of production. Fascism exalts the nation,
state, or race as superior to the individuals, institutions, or groups
composing it. Fascism uses explicit populist rhetoric; calls for a
heroic mass effort to restore past greatness; and demands loyalty to a
single leader, often to the point of a cult of personality."

Well, we certainly seem to be hitting a lot of high points on the list:

Demand loyalty to a single leader - check
Cult of personality - check
Explicit populist rhetoric - check
Exalting the nation - check

In either case you really are the kind of treasonous **** we were complaining
about having hijacked the Democrat party.


Ah, raising the tone of the discussion. Excellent.

Go burn a flag or something.


But, but, all I have on hand are Gay Rainbow flags...

I'm almost positive there's a joke in there somewhere.

--
Dane Buson -
"There is of course also Advocaat, aka 'alcoholic custard', which is the
proverbial dessert topping and floor wax. Especially if you've got a bottle
with a dodgy lid and then eagerly follow the instructions to shake before use.
"Ah. Alcoholic bukkake." -
responding to Peter in asr
  #120  
Old July 27th 06, 05:58 AM posted to alt.non.racism,rec.bicycles.racing,rec.bicycles.misc
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 822
Default French Get A Dose Of The New Lance Armstrong

RonSonic wrote:

At some point the status quo of the middle east had to change. The preference
for "stability" had created an untenable situation. Iraq was turning into
another North Korea and one of those is already too many. As expensive as the
war in Iraq has been, it was undertaken knowing it would be costly


We were told that it would pay for itself with oil money.

and with the
understanding that inaction would be worse.


MIS-understanding, you must mean.

Robert

 




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