TK was exactly right. OT

ST wrote:
On 6/27/08 7:54 PM, in article , "ST"
wrote:

On 6/27/08 9:11 AM, in article ,
"Fred Fredburger" wrote:

ST wrote:

You guys are so full of crap and yourselves!

HE SAID... (and I agreed) "This biofuels **** is gonna take all the corn the
USA gives to feed the worlds hungry and they are gonna starve!!!"
Hasn't happened.

Even though you've cherry picked his statements, you still haven't come
up with one that's demonstrably true.

You are such a koolaid idiot............

http://www.un.org/News/briefings/doc...iegler.doc.htm

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...arving_people_
are_a_crime.html


U.N.: Biofuels Starving People, Are a "Crime Against Humanity"
Biofuel Growth Causing Starvation


Here is another one from a PROGRESSIVE website!

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/04/29/8595/

Published on Tuesday, April 29, 2008
by Environmental News Service

UN: Biofuel Production ŒCriminal Path¹ to Global Food Crisis


The claim was that TK was right when he said that biofuels will starve
millions.

Will starve millions. Not 'Might starve millions, under certain
conditions, if some set of bad decisions are made. Maybe. Perhaps.'

You're such a candyass.

In article
,
Bret wrote:

On Jun 28, 3:04*pm, ST wrote:
On 6/28/08 10:57 AM, in article
, "Donald Munro"

wrote:
Bret wrote:
The first article talks of a right to food whether or not it can be paid
for. I never knew you were such a liberal Stevie.

He's been assimilated into the liberal plot. Ben needs some help
with the project in Asia.

Read the article more assbag!!

The creation of ³pure fuels² or biofuels to protect the environment and
reduce oil dependence was not a bad idea, but its negative impact on hunger
would be catastrophic, Mr. Ziegler said. *When tons of maize, wheat, beans
and other food staples were converted to fuel, food prices rose and arable
land was lost to food production. *Last year, the price of wheat doubled and
of maize quadrupled.

He said that, currently, 31 of 53 African States had to import food. *As
prices rose, the poorest countries could not pay, and the poorest people,
generally living without access to subsistence farming, could not purchase
more expensive foodstuffs. *The amount of corn that needed to be burned to
make enough ethanol to fill a single car¹s fuel tank could fill a child for
an entire year.

You seem to be saying that growers have a moral obligation to produce
food no matter the market forces involved. Why do you hate market
forces? How many children could be fed with the corn used to produce
the high fructose corn syrup that you consume Stevie?

Well, the thing I don't get about this is that virtually every African
state that can't feed itself is that way due to something like civil
war, non-civil war, or being led by Robert Mugabe.

Bad domestic policy has done far more to destroy African agriculture
than ethanol.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

On Jun 28, 7:22*pm, Fred Fredburger
wrote:
ST wrote:
On 6/27/08 7:54 PM, in article , "ST"
wrote:

On 6/27/08 9:11 AM, in article ,
"Fred Fredburger" wrote:

ST wrote:

You guys are so full of crap and yourselves!

HE SAID... (and I agreed) "This biofuels **** is gonna take all the corn the
USA gives to feed the worlds hungry and they are gonna starve!!!"
Hasn't happened.

Even though you've cherry picked his statements, you still haven't come
up with one that's demonstrably true.

You are such a koolaid idiot............

http://www.un.org/News/briefings/doc...iegler.doc.htm

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...uels_starving_....
are_a_crime.html

U.N.: Biofuels Starving People, Are a "Crime Against Humanity"
Biofuel Growth Causing Starvation

Here is another one from a PROGRESSIVE website!

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/04/29/8595/

Published on Tuesday, April 29, 2008
*by Environmental News Service

UN: Biofuel Production ŒCriminal Path¹ to Global Food Crisis

The claim was that TK was right when he said that biofuels will starve
millions.

Will starve millions. Not 'Might starve millions, under certain
conditions, if some set of bad decisions are made. Maybe. Perhaps.'

You're such a candyass.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

We KNOW the UN and the world community would never make bad decisions,
and Brazil is giving up biofuels.
The claim is that it's already happening, coming from the UN. ****ing
internationalists want it both ways, all the time.
I'm not sold that biofuels are the cause by a long shot, but that's
the claim.

From my original link:

Britain and Europe will be forced to fundamentally rethink a central
part of their environment strategy after a government report found
that the rush to develop biofuels has played a "significant" role in
the dramatic rise in global food prices, which has left 100 million
more people without enough to eat.

The Gallagher report, due to be published next week, will trigger a
review of British and EU targets for the use of plant-derived fuels in
place of petrol and diesel, the Guardian has learned.

The study marks a dramatic reversal in the role of biofuels in the
fight against global warming. As recently as last year, corn ethanol
and biodiesel derived from vegetable oil were widely seen as important
weapons in that fight - and a central plank of Gordon Brown's green
strategy. Now even their environmental benefits are in question.

A panel of government experts, chaired by Professor Ed Gallagher, head
of the Renewable Fuels Agency, has said that far more research is
needed into the indirect impact of biofuels on land use and food
production before the government sets targets for their use in
transport.


Even granting a best case scenario, how soon do you think the policy
could be reversed? What's the growing and transportation cycle? How
about assured delivery in the middle of food riots?
Wave that magic wand and it all changes, right?
Bill C

On Jun 28, 7:56*pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote:


Well, the thing I don't get about this is that virtually every African
state that can't feed itself is that way due to something like civil
war, non-civil war, or being led by Robert Mugabe.

Bad domestic policy has done far more to destroy African agriculture
than ethanol.

--
Ryan Cousineau /
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That's something they don't want to talk about, and I got killed for
bringing up with respect to the Eritrean/Ethiopian war. This has been
a consideration that has been forcibly ignored for ages. Starving
countries are fighting wars, and the only way their armies are able to
stay in the field, and equipped is by international food aid, much of
which has been sold off to buy ammunition and arms too. It happened
with USAID and the VC, by the VC's own reports after the war. Giap
stated that at times the only way they were able to keep fighting was
by taking the aid from villages since they weren't getting enough
through from China due to the interdiction of the supply system.
Both Eritrea and Ethiopia have been found to be doing the same thing,
except even worse because they are shipping it right back out in
exchange for munitions while their people starve and it's ignored by
the UN and world community for the most part. Food is used as a weapon
quite naturally in most conflicts. Seige from ancient times on was
based on starving the enemy into giving up. Why should that change for
people at war? Treaties don't mean **** and noone but Europe, the US,
Canada, and Israel is re4ally even held to any standards.
Iran has signed every International treaty on protecting minors, and
still continues to execute minors for homosexuality and other things
regularly. I don't see any outcry to bring their leadership before the
Hague. Same for Mugabe, Castro, etc...How many Khmer Rouge have
actually been prosecuted? You can count them on fingers. One of the
Hanoi Hilton folks who tortured McCain and others is getting play for
endorsing McCain for Pres. No arrest warrant, no tough questions, just
PR. I was watching closely to see if either Amnesty, or HRW would show
any signs of outrage over the Taleban dragging those two folks out,
and summarily executing them for supposedly spying in front of 5000
cheering folks. Nowhere to be seen, but lots on Gitmo, again.
Haven't seen any calls for the UN folks to be brought before the
Hague for the rapes, human trafficking, etc...by their "peacekeepers".
All I've seen is the UN claiming blanket immunity for any actions
during UN missions, especially in respect to the massacres in the
Balkans.
So, YEP, biofuels are definitely the real problem Ryan, and you just
need to be less informed, and inquisitive.
I'm beginning to get the feeling that biofuels, in the world food
debate are taking the place that guns have in the crime debate. Easy
to point at some article while society, policy, and history are
purposely ignored.
Bill C

On 6/28/08 4:16 PM, in article
, "Bret"
wrote:

On Jun 28, 3:04*pm, ST wrote:
On 6/28/08 10:57 AM, in article
, "Donald Munro"

wrote:
Bret wrote:
The first article talks of a right to food whether or not it can be paid
for. I never knew you were such a liberal Stevie.

He's been assimilated into the liberal plot. Ben needs some help
with the project in Asia.

Read the article more assbag!!

The creation of ³pure fuels² or biofuels to protect the environment and
reduce oil dependence was not a bad idea, but its negative impact on hunger
would be catastrophic, Mr. Ziegler said. *When tons of maize, wheat, beans
and other food staples were converted to fuel, food prices rose and arable
land was lost to food production. *Last year, the price of wheat doubled and
of maize quadrupled.

He said that, currently, 31 of 53 African States had to import food. *As
prices rose, the poorest countries could not pay, and the poorest people,
generally living without access to subsistence farming, could not purchase
more expensive foodstuffs. *The amount of corn that needed to be burned to
make enough ethanol to fill a single car¹s fuel tank could fill a child for
an entire year.

You seem to be saying that growers have a moral obligation to produce
food no matter the market forces involved. Why do you hate market
forces? How many children could be fed with the corn used to produce
the high fructose corn syrup that you consume Stevie?

Jesus you guys are dolts! That is what the article says.

On 6/28/08 4:17 PM, in article ,
"Fred Fredburger" wrote:

ST wrote:
On 6/27/08 9:11 AM, in article ,
"Fred Fredburger" wrote:

ST wrote:

You guys are so full of crap and yourselves!

HE SAID... (and I agreed) "This biofuels **** is gonna take all the corn
the
USA gives to feed the worlds hungry and they are gonna starve!!!"
Hasn't happened.

Even though you've cherry picked his statements, you still haven't come
up with one that's demonstrably true.


You are such a koolaid idiot............

http://www.un.org/News/briefings/doc...iegler.doc.htm

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...arving_people_
are_a_crime.html


U.N.: Biofuels Starving People, Are a "Crime Against Humanity"
Biofuel Growth Causing Starvation


You should read your own links.

"Jean Ziegler, Special Rapporteur on the Right to Food, reported that
biofuel could have a catastrophic negative impact on world hunger. "

Do you know what the word "could" means? It's not the same thing as "did".

I know, I'm being too subtle for you again.

Keep on trying to weasle out assbag!
This **** is all over the internet news!

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA0806/S00413.htm

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...mment.biofuels

The western appetite for biofuels is causing starvation in the poor world

On Jun 28, 4:56*pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote:

Well, the thing I don't get about this is that virtually every African
state that can't feed itself is that way due to something like civil
war, non-civil war, or being led by Robert Mugabe.

Bad domestic policy has done far more to destroy African agriculture
than ethanol.

You know as much about African agriculture as you do about economics.
The fundamental problem with Africa's food production, especially in
Sub-Saharan Africa, is poor soil fertility, exacerbated by climate
patterns that aren't conducive to most of the modern high-yield crops.

On 6/28/08 4:22 PM, in article ,
"Fred Fredburger" wrote:

ST wrote:
On 6/27/08 7:54 PM, in article , "ST"
wrote:

On 6/27/08 9:11 AM, in article ,
"Fred Fredburger" wrote:

ST wrote:

You guys are so full of crap and yourselves!

HE SAID... (and I agreed) "This biofuels **** is gonna take all the corn
the
USA gives to feed the worlds hungry and they are gonna starve!!!"
Hasn't happened.

Even though you've cherry picked his statements, you still haven't come
up with one that's demonstrably true.

You are such a koolaid idiot............

http://www.un.org/News/briefings/doc...iegler.doc.htm

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...arving_people_
are_a_crime.html


U.N.: Biofuels Starving People, Are a "Crime Against Humanity"
Biofuel Growth Causing Starvation


Here is another one from a PROGRESSIVE website!

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/04/29/8595/

Published on Tuesday, April 29, 2008
by Environmental News Service

UN: Biofuel Production ŒCriminal Path¹ to Global Food Crisis


The claim was that TK was right when he said that biofuels will starve
millions.

Will starve millions. Not 'Might starve millions, under certain
conditions, if some set of bad decisions are made. Maybe. Perhaps.'

You're such a candyass.


You are a ****in stuckup yuppie asshole! Do your own search and read all the
news! You sound like a graduate of Henry the fairy debate school.

This is proof you progressive assholes really do NOT care about people, you
care about socialist ideals! Almost ALL of the systems of government in
recent history that have killed MILLIONS of it citizens on purpose of
through policies have been based on SOCIALIST systems!!

As you can tell....... I have no patience for you yuppie windbags.

On 6/28/08 4:56 PM, in article
], "Ryan
Cousineau" wrote:

In article
,
Bret wrote:

On Jun 28, 3:04*pm, ST wrote:
On 6/28/08 10:57 AM, in article
, "Donald Munro"

wrote:
Bret wrote:
The first article talks of a right to food whether or not it can be paid
for. I never knew you were such a liberal Stevie.

He's been assimilated into the liberal plot. Ben needs some help
with the project in Asia.

Read the article more assbag!!

The creation of ³pure fuels² or biofuels to protect the environment and
reduce oil dependence was not a bad idea, but its negative impact on hunger
would be catastrophic, Mr. Ziegler said. *When tons of maize, wheat, beans
and other food staples were converted to fuel, food prices rose and arable
land was lost to food production. *Last year, the price of wheat doubled and
of maize quadrupled.

He said that, currently, 31 of 53 African States had to import food. *As
prices rose, the poorest countries could not pay, and the poorest people,
generally living without access to subsistence farming, could not purchase
more expensive foodstuffs. *The amount of corn that needed to be burned to
make enough ethanol to fill a single car¹s fuel tank could fill a child for
an entire year.

You seem to be saying that growers have a moral obligation to produce
food no matter the market forces involved. Why do you hate market
forces? How many children could be fed with the corn used to produce
the high fructose corn syrup that you consume Stevie?

Well, the thing I don't get about this is that virtually every African
state that can't feed itself is that way due to something like civil
war, non-civil war, or being led by Robert Mugabe.

Bad domestic policy has done far more to destroy African agriculture
than ethanol.

DING! DING! DING!! You are correct!
I thought the USA was the only bad government!

That is one of the reasons the USA is the BIGGEST supporter of the poor and
needy than any other country in the world! BUT!! Now we are taking half of
those crops we export to those countries for food and BURNING it to make
ethanol for some utopian progressive ideals?!?!?!

And now......... It contributes greatly to the starvation of millions!

On Jun 28, 4:56*pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article
,





*Bret wrote:
On Jun 28, 3:04*pm, ST wrote:
On 6/28/08 10:57 AM, in article
, "Donald Munro"

wrote:
Bret wrote:
The first article talks of a right to food whether or not it can be paid
for. I never knew you were such a liberal Stevie.

He's been assimilated into the liberal plot. Ben needs some help
with the project in Asia.

Read the article more assbag!!

The creation of ³pure fuels² or biofuels to protect the environment and
reduce oil dependence was not a bad idea, but its negative impact on hunger
would be catastrophic, Mr. Ziegler said. *When tons of maize, wheat, beans
and other food staples were converted to fuel, food prices rose and arable
land was lost to food production. *Last year, the price of wheat doubled and
of maize quadrupled.

He said that, currently, 31 of 53 African States had to import food. *As
prices rose, the poorest countries could not pay, and the poorest people,
generally living without access to subsistence farming, could not purchase
more expensive foodstuffs. *The amount of corn that needed to be burned to
make enough ethanol to fill a single car¹s fuel tank could fill a child for
an entire year.

You seem to be saying that growers have a moral obligation to produce
food no matter the market forces involved. Why do you hate market
forces? How many children could be fed with the corn used to produce
the high fructose corn syrup that you consume Stevie?

Well, the thing I don't get about this is that virtually every African
state that can't feed itself is that way due to something like civil
war, non-civil war, or being led by Robert Mugabe.



Dumbass -


That is a good observation. The fundamental problem in many African
nations is political instability/anarchy. It is a feature which, if
present, overrides all others.


thanks,

K. Gringioni.