TK was exactly right. OT

On Jun 22, 1:34*pm, Bill C wrote:

*Scary thing is they are on both fringes, and do matter.

Your fringe at work:

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/25/...tant-solitary/
http://www.usdoj.gov/opr/oig-opr-inv...-hire-slip.pdf

On Jun 25, 10:22*am, Robert Chung wrote:
On Jun 22, 1:34*pm, Bill C wrote:

*Scary thing is they are on both fringes, and do matter.

Your fringe at work:

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/25/...tant-solitary/

http://www.usdoj.gov/opr/oig-opr-inv...-hire-slip.pdf

BTW, the latter link has the worst charts ever.

On Jun 25, 10:22*am, Robert Chung wrote:

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/06/25/...tant-solitary/

OTOH, they do that to themselves, too:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/washington/25epa.html

On Jun 22, 1:34*pm, Bill C wrote:

*Scary thing is they are on both fringes, and do matter.

More fringe:
http://law.shu.edu/center_policyrese...inal_61608.pdf

On Jun 25, 5:28*am, Bill C wrote:

Not sure if I would've supported buying/taking ANWR, but now that I,
through my involuntary contribution, own it, and I'm gonna pretend the
system might work, then I'm happier treating it like a painting on a
wall. Just as much fun to look at and does a lot more good though.
Once in a while, if enough of us scream at them, they actually listen.
*They took our money, they bought it, we own it.

Cool, I own ANWR. Drill it.

Cool, I own saguaro cactus. Doze it.

On Jun 25, 11:28*am, SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:
On Jun 25, 5:28*am, Bill C wrote:

Not sure if I would've supported buying/taking ANWR, but now that I,
through my involuntary contribution, own it, and I'm gonna pretend the
system might work, then I'm happier treating it like a painting on a
wall. Just as much fun to look at and does a lot more good though.
Once in a while, if enough of us scream at them, they actually listen.
*They took our money, they bought it, we own it.

Cool, I own ANWR. *Drill it.

Cool, I own saguaro cactus. *Doze it.

You'd think a slave would have a more liberal view of "property
rights". I think the Bible says it best:
"If a man smite his servant or his maid with a rod, and he die under
his hand, he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue
a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his money."

May ye reap what ye sow..
-Paul

In article
,
"Paul G." wrote:

On Jun 23, 9:50*pm, Robert Chung wrote:
On Jun 23, 9:28*pm, wrote:



On Jun 23, 10:01*pm, Robert Chung wrote:

On Jun 23, 8:24*pm, wrote:

A few things that have me perplexed:

1) the earth stopped its most recent warming cycle in 1998
2) the earth cooled enough in the last few years to give back all the
warming from the previous century
3) the oceans stopped heating roughly 7 years ago, and have begun to
cool
4) the earth's warming cycles correspond almost perfectly with solar
activity, but not so perfectly w/ human behavior or CO2 emission
levels or CO2 atmospheric levels

Perhaps the reason you're perplexed is because you haven't looked at
the data:

http://anonymous.coward.free.fr/temp...//anonymous.co...

Very pretty charts. *I suppose you'll have us believe that a 0.4
degree change in surface temperature is major, when the experts say
that it's not surface temps that matter. *Oh, wait... you're trotting
out the data that supports your believes, regardless of conflicting
data.

Hmmm.

You claimed "that the earth cooled enough in the last few years to
give back all the warming from the previous century." The first plot
showed that not to be true. The SST temperature is still almost 1
degree celsius warmer than a century ago.

Second, that's about 0.4 degrees celsius worth of warming in about 25
years -- so yeah, that's pretty major.

Third, you claimed that the Earth "stopped its most recent warming
cycle in 1998." The data show that 1998 was an extreme blip but that
warming has continued since then.

Fourth, you claim that "earth's warming cycles correspond almost
perfectly with solar activity, but not so perfectly w/ human behavior
or CO2 emission levels or CO2 atmospheric levels." The second plot
shows global sea-land temperature, solar activity, and CO2 level. I'd
say global temperature corresponds much more closely to CO2 level than
to solar activity.

No wonder you're perplexed. Denial will do that.

Right. There is no question that rising CO2 levels result in warming.

There is doubt, else why do you even have to deny it?

--
Michael Press

On Jun 25, 11:51*am, Michael Press wrote:

There is doubt, else why do you even have to deny it?

Refusing to open your e-mail because you know it contains something
unpleasant might be called denial:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/25/washington/25epa.html

On Jun 25, 1:39*pm, Robert Chung wrote:
On Jun 22, 1:34*pm, Bill C wrote:

*Scary thing is they are on both fringes, and do matter.

More fringe:http://law.shu.edu/center_policyrese...legend_final_6...

The lunatics are running the asylum. In the DOD in particular we are
seeing the results of two decades of promotion via politics,
bootlicking, pencil whipping, and burying anything negative. Lots and
lots of folks are cheering the start at cleaning out the top of the
AF. We all got to watch lots of really good, capable folks leave the
military, including some Academy grads because they couldn't deal with
the BS going on. The mission and the people have been so far down the
ladder it's incredible, and now it's really showing in the contracting
failures, the total collapse of the systems around the nuclear
weapons, the huge increase, as a percentage, in PTSD, etc...Anyone who
dared bring up the problems, and concerns over the last couple of
decades in particular was killing their careers.
Before Bush it was just making things look good to get ahead, now
it's that combined with blind support for what Bush wants, no matter
the cost and destruction it is wreaking on our own people.
Wes Clarke was the most political General in history. His career was
made by playing with politicians and getting them to exert pressure
for him. From what I'm seeing now, and I don't have first hand
knowledge of these folks, they are far worse in that regard than he
was. The only thing that seems to matter now to keeping your job/
getting promoted is to not only go with the totally ****ed up flow,
but work your ass off to promote it.
Seems to be the case across the government with the Bush clowns too.
It'ds gonna take decades, or more, of dedicated hard work, and massive
resources to fix the disaster these ****heads have caused.
Am I supposed to argue that the extremist fringe hasn't got control
of the executive branch and all that goes with it? I'd need a ****load
of skunky beer, and a loaded crack pipe to even begin to think about
it.
Bill C

On Jun 25, 2:45*pm, "Paul G." wrote:
On Jun 25, 11:28*am, SLAVE of THE STATE wrote:

On Jun 25, 5:28*am, Bill C wrote:

Not sure if I would've supported buying/taking ANWR, but now that I,
through my involuntary contribution, own it, and I'm gonna pretend the
system might work, then I'm happier treating it like a painting on a
wall. Just as much fun to look at and does a lot more good though.
Once in a while, if enough of us scream at them, they actually listen..
*They took our money, they bought it, we own it.

Cool, I own ANWR. *Drill it.

Cool, I own saguaro cactus. *Doze it.

You'd think a slave would have a more liberal view of "property
rights". I think the Bible says it best:
"If a man smite his servant or his maid with a rod, and he die under
his hand, he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue
a day or two, he shall not be punished; for he is his money."

May ye reap what ye sow..
-Paul

That's the thing about democracy, the mob gets to rule, and in this
case I hope we outvote/outpressure you and the exploit it folks. It's
pretty simple, If we leave it alone now we always have that option in
the future. Once they get their hands on it, it's ****ed over for good
and can't be put back, and they sure as hell aren't going to pay to
fix it. On top of that SCOTUS just said they get a free pass pretty
much with Exxon Valdez.

http://www.trcp.org/pr_061808.aspx

TRCP Sues Interior Department over Mismanaged Wyoming Energy Project
Multiple violations of federal law drive sportsmen's group to action
on Pinedale Anticline, currently targeted for greatly expanded
drilling and development
WASHINGTON — The Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership today
filed suit in U.S. District Court against the Department of the
Interior over its mishandling of energy development on the Pinedale
Anticline natural gas development project in southwestern Wyoming.

The TRCP suit contends that the Bureau of Land Management failed to
implement "adaptive environmental management" and mitigation
requirements as committed to in the decision documents for the project
area, which encompasses approximately 200,000 acres of the Green River
Basin in Sublette County, Wyo. The sportsmen's group does not want to
halt development in the Pinedale Anticline. The TRCP supports
responsible energy development coupled with determined efforts to
sustain fish and wildlife resources throughout the course of
development activities.

In formulating the plan for development of the Pinedale project eight
years ago, the BLM committed itself and industry to processes that the
agency concluded were essential to develop the region in an
environmentally sensitive manner that complied with BLM obligations
under federal law. The TRCP contends that these adaptive environmental
management procedures, which attempted to address concerns regarding
wildlife, air quality and water quality as they arose, have failed.
The BLM violations have resulted in serious damage to wildlife
populations in and around the Pinedale Anticline.

"The government points to the Pinedale Anticline project as a model of
responsible development," said TRCP President and CEO George Cooper.
"But when we actually look at this fractured landscape and the
shrinking wildlife populations, we see the effects of a model that is
seriously flawed."

lots more there
http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/25/news...ex.htm?cnn=yes

Hoorah for big government. We need more of it. That's the solution.
Bill C