Steel frames and le Tour

Scott wrote:
Well, of course. The whole
point of the discussion hinges on the fact that we're talking about
someone using a non-standard team frame DISGUISED to look as much like
the team issue bike as possible. Unless you're talking about a top
pro, where would you ever see info on what bike they're riding? You'd
never even hear about some guy on a team who just happened to have a
steel bike. That does not mean it is or isn't happening. It just
means that it would be hard to point to an example of it if it were
happening.

Those guys ride what they are paid to ride. *Especially* those guys.

Bob Schwartz

Scott writes:

While I don't think it's necessarily happening this year, given the
long and storied history of riders having their favored frames re-
badged to look like the team's bike, it's certainly not outside the
realm of possiblity that someone is riding a steel frame.

That was much easier back when they all looked like bicycles, and
all you needed to pull that off was the correct paint job and decals.

To accomplish the same look as most of today's team bikes, it would
take either a very strange (and probably extraordinarily heavy) custom
steel frame or a traditional steel frame with lots of paper-mache (or
whatever) or possibly a combination of both to do the same. A bit
difficult to see any advantages that would make it worthwhile.

On Jul 10, 1:04*pm, (A R:nen) wrote:
Scott writes:
While I don't think it's necessarily happening this year, given the
long and storied history of riders having their favored frames re-
badged to look like the team's bike, it's certainly not outside the
realm of possiblity that someone is riding a steel frame.

That was much easier back when they all looked like bicycles, and
all you needed to pull that off was the correct paint job and decals.

To accomplish the same look as most of today's team bikes, it would
take either a very strange (and probably extraordinarily heavy) custom
steel frame or a traditional steel frame with lots of paper-mache (or
whatever) or possibly a combination of both to do the same. A bit
difficult to see any advantages that would make it worthwhile.

True, but irrelevant. We're not (at least I'm not) talking about
Boonen or Bettini or DiLuca or some top guy who's every move is
scrutinized. I'm talking about the simple concept that some guy, any
guy, COULD ride a non-issue frame (even a steel one) in the middle of
the peleton and no one would notice or give half a damn if they did
notice.

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:21:47 -0700 (PDT), Scott
wrote:

The odds for any given rider using a steel frame is not
1 in 10 or 1 in 100 or whatever. It's 50/50.

Is this a joke?

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:33:37 -0700 (PDT), Scott
wrote:

The whole
point of the discussion hinges on the fact that we're talking about
someone using a non-standard team frame DISGUISED to look as much like
the team issue bike as possible. Unless you're talking about a top
pro, where would you ever see info on what bike they're riding?

I've seen disguised bikes at races I've been at in person. These were
pro bikes made by another maker of another material.

It's hard, but in some cases it's possible to spot disguised bikes in
photos. Especially if we're talking about frame materials with
significantly different tube sizes. For high-tech steel the main
tubes are way thinner than carbon and aluminum - easy to see in
quality photos. The Tour of France is one of the most followed and
photographed races in the world.

There is zero evidence of a steel frame in that race other than
someone saying "Well, it's possible."

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 12:36:14 -0600, wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:21:06 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Jul 10, 1:57*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 10:42:13 -0700 (PDT), "


Regardless of your incessant babbling, you know a lot less than you
think you do.

You're mistaken. *I know I know very little. *But the things I say I
know I'm almost always right about.

As far as you know.

R

Dear RJ,

Here's a current example of John proving how little he knows:

On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 11:25:54 -0600, wrote:

"Carl, did you ever add that seven pound weight to your bike? No? Then
shut up."
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...83b5702c4c3236

Yes, ignorance is not only bliss, but also tends to believe that it's
almost always right.

John might profit from this article:
http://www.geocities.com/sgraessle/folder1/incomp.htm

Cheers,

Carl Fogel

Dear Carl. Did I say you didn't or did I ask?

Please shut up now.

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:37:51 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Thanks for the info. Not an alloy frame to be found. I assume those
are are the "official" bikes of the team. It is still theoretically
possible that individual riders have different bikes than these, no?
(I will not argue that any of them are steel, however).

I wouldnt' be surprised to see a rider or two in their on an aluminum
frame, especially if the sponsor makes both aluminum and carbon fiber
frames.

On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 12:13:34 -0700 (PDT), Scott
wrote:

On Jul 10, 1:04*pm, (A R:nen) wrote:
Scott writes:
While I don't think it's necessarily happening this year, given the
long and storied history of riders having their favored frames re-
badged to look like the team's bike, it's certainly not outside the
realm of possiblity that someone is riding a steel frame.

That was much easier back when they all looked like bicycles, and
all you needed to pull that off was the correct paint job and decals.

To accomplish the same look as most of today's team bikes, it would
take either a very strange (and probably extraordinarily heavy) custom
steel frame or a traditional steel frame with lots of paper-mache (or
whatever) or possibly a combination of both to do the same. A bit
difficult to see any advantages that would make it worthwhile.

True, but irrelevant. We're not (at least I'm not) talking about
Boonen or Bettini or DiLuca or some top guy who's every move is
scrutinized. I'm talking about the simple concept that some guy, any
guy, COULD ride a non-issue frame (even a steel one) in the middle of
the peleton and no one would notice or give half a damn if they did
notice.

The lower down the totem pole the rider is the less chance he has of
the team letting him ride non-standard stuff.

or give half a damn if they did
notice.

You think team sponsors who are going nuts spending money to get their
name into the most televised and photographed bike race in the world
wouldnt' care if some "lower-level" rider is riding something
different?

Wow.

In article ,
Scott wrote:

Think about this... You talk about the difficulty in finding an
example of someone using a steel frame. Well, of course. The whole
point of the discussion hinges on the fact that we're talking about
someone using a non-standard team frame DISGUISED to look as much like
the team issue bike as possible. Unless you're talking about a top
pro, where would you ever see info on what bike they're riding? You'd
never even hear about some guy on a team who just happened to have a
steel bike. That does not mean it is or isn't happening. It just
means that it would be hard to point to an example of it if it were
happening.

Dude, it's not 1990... You are completely bat**** if you think
there's a steel bike in the pro peleton. It would be instantly
obvious ( thin straight tubes.... ), bikes can't be "disguised"
that much anymore.

I suspect many of the riders in the TDF have NEVER ridden a
lugged steel bike in their entire lives. Certainly, never raced
on one.

_ Booker C. Bense

On Jul 10, 1:34*pm, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:
On Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:33:37 -0700 (PDT), Scott

wrote:
The whole
point of the discussion hinges on the fact that we're talking about
someone using a non-standard team frame DISGUISED to look as much like
the team issue bike as possible. *Unless you're talking about a top
pro, where would you ever see info on what bike they're riding?

I've seen disguised bikes at races I've been at in person. These were
pro bikes made by another maker of another material. *

It's hard, but in some cases it's possible to spot disguised bikes in
photos. Especially if we're talking about frame materials with
significantly different tube sizes. *For high-tech steel the main
tubes are way thinner than carbon and aluminum - easy to see in
quality photos. The Tour of France is one of the most followed and
photographed races in the world.

There is zero evidence of a steel frame in that race other than
someone saying "Well, it's possible."

Don't make me play the 'dumbass' card on you!

No one ever said there was any evidence of a steel frame being ridden
in the Tour. You have insisted on trying to argue against a point
that no one has tried to make.