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Swearing On Lives of Others



 
 
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  #21  
Old August 23rd 04, 07:59 PM
B. Lafferty
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"bobby carter" wrote in message
...

.

why
don't you state what drug testing changes you propose instead of just
sniping at random.


My position on drug use has been stated here a number of times. Do a

google
search and enlighten yourself.


your position on use-yes, but answer my accusation that you offer no
changes to current testing protocols


You're bull****ting, Bobby. If you know my position, you know the answer to
your query.


-i would like to rip your legs off but you probably
don't ride uphill very well and would decline an invitation to go

vertical
and be assed off the back.


And your dick is probably 14", right Bobby? Big balls, too?


actually no is the answer to your to your adolescent jibes. but i
evidently did hit a weak spot huh.


No. I was making fun of your adolescent comment.



oops-my time budget for dances with dunces is
up-gotta go ride. c ya.


I just got in from a really nice ride. Enjoy yours, Bobby.


enlighten me-what is a peloton pig.?


Try to figure it out. Trust me. It isn't difficult.

one last thing-don't you just hate it
when someone distracts you just when you start winding up on your sermon.
hehhehheh


What are you writing about?


--
Peloton Pigs Can Fly!


Ads
  #22  
Old August 23rd 04, 08:27 PM
OMC
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Default

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message nk.net...
"Carl Sundquist" wrote in message
...

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message
The poison is in the peloton, Bobby. It's called reality. Deal with

it
or not. Your choice. But if you do want to kill the messengers, you're
going to be a busy man. ;-)


If all you are is a messenger, then you're doing nothing to solve the
problem.


Not true. I've emailed Hein Verbruggen on many occasions about the drug
problem with no response. :-)


Now there's your proof.........Verbruggen is smarter than all of us
that respond to your tireless crap.

"OMC"
  #23  
Old August 23rd 04, 08:35 PM
B. Lafferty
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Default


"OMC" wrote in message
om...
Not true. I've emailed Hein Verbruggen on many occasions about the drug
problem with no response. :-)


Now there's your proof.........Verbruggen is smarter than all of us
that respond to your tireless crap.

"OMC"


Just remember, the "tireless crap" is only made possible by riders
continuing to use illegal, performance enhancing drugs. Of course, the
hypocrisy of riders, like Millar, denying and trashing those who admit to
doping adds to the never ending, "tireless crap." ;-)


--
Peloton Pigs--Flying Since 1991


  #24  
Old August 23rd 04, 08:45 PM
bobby carter
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nice recovery from the dick comment-very lawyerly. but still no recs for new
testing protocols. the world wonders and is awaiting your reply. will i get
a bill for your sage replies? hope not because free opinions are worth what
you pay for them. keep stroking (that's a phrase of encouragement).

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message
ink.net...

"bobby carter" wrote in message
...

.

why
don't you state what drug testing changes you propose instead of just
sniping at random.

My position on drug use has been stated here a number of times. Do a

google
search and enlighten yourself.


your position on use-yes, but answer my accusation that you offer no
changes to current testing protocols


You're bull****ting, Bobby. If you know my position, you know the answer

to
your query.


-i would like to rip your legs off but you probably
don't ride uphill very well and would decline an invitation to go

vertical
and be assed off the back.

And your dick is probably 14", right Bobby? Big balls, too?


actually no is the answer to your to your adolescent jibes. but i
evidently did hit a weak spot huh.


No. I was making fun of your adolescent comment.



oops-my time budget for dances with dunces is
up-gotta go ride. c ya.

I just got in from a really nice ride. Enjoy yours, Bobby.


enlighten me-what is a peloton pig.?


Try to figure it out. Trust me. It isn't difficult.

one last thing-don't you just hate it
when someone distracts you just when you start winding up on your

sermon.
hehhehheh


What are you writing about?


--
Peloton Pigs Can Fly!




  #25  
Old August 23rd 04, 09:20 PM
B. Lafferty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

:-)

"bobby carter" wrote in message
...
nice recovery from the dick comment-very lawyerly. but still no recs for
new
testing protocols. the world wonders and is awaiting your reply. will i
get
a bill for your sage replies? hope not because free opinions are worth
what
you pay for them. keep stroking (that's a phrase of encouragement).

"B. Lafferty" wrote in message
ink.net...

"bobby carter" wrote in message
...

.

why
don't you state what drug testing changes you propose instead of
just
sniping at random.

My position on drug use has been stated here a number of times. Do a
google
search and enlighten yourself.

your position on use-yes, but answer my accusation that you offer no
changes to current testing protocols


You're bull****ting, Bobby. If you know my position, you know the answer

to
your query.


-i would like to rip your legs off but you probably
don't ride uphill very well and would decline an invitation to go
vertical
and be assed off the back.

And your dick is probably 14", right Bobby? Big balls, too?

actually no is the answer to your to your adolescent jibes. but i
evidently did hit a weak spot huh.


No. I was making fun of your adolescent comment.



oops-my time budget for dances with dunces is
up-gotta go ride. c ya.

I just got in from a really nice ride. Enjoy yours, Bobby.

enlighten me-what is a peloton pig.?


Try to figure it out. Trust me. It isn't difficult.

one last thing-don't you just hate it
when someone distracts you just when you start winding up on your

sermon.
hehhehheh


What are you writing about?


--
Peloton Pigs Can Fly!






  #26  
Old August 23rd 04, 11:44 PM
TritonRider
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

From: Bob Schwartz

One commonality between Andy, Kyle, and the guy Warren get his advice from
is that they are all less well off financially than that other Italian
doctor. He charges a high premium for his advice. In addition there is
other baggage involved in working with him in that lots of people (not
just Lafferty) will assume you are doping. Voet said as much in his book.
The value of the advice you get from him has to outweigh the cost and
other factors involved in working with him.

So if LANCE is getting legal training advice from Ferrari then he must
be getting advice that is significantly more valuable than that available
from Testa. Or Andy or Kyle. Because the cost, by a number of measures,
is way higher.

It is really an economic decision.

Bob Schwartz



I agree with almost everything except your conclusion that it's based on
money. From everything I've read about Lance it seems he is VERY stubborn once
he makes up his mind, and considers loyalty to be HUGE. So I have no problem
seeing him standing up for, and defending Ferrari even if he isn't getting much
out of it at this point. I think the fact that a huge portion of cycling wants
him to dump Ferrari probably makes him even more determined to stand by him, at
least until the roof falls in.
I haven't met him, but I don't think people who have met him casually KNOW
him. There's a ton of info on his personality out there, and I've heard from
some people who do KNOW him so I think I've got a decent read on his
personality.
Still just guessing though.
Bill C
  #27  
Old August 24th 04, 12:24 AM
Benjamin Weiner
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Posts: n/a
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"B. Lafferty" wrote:
"bobby carter" wrote:


did i miss something here? did i mention anything about killing anyone?


It's just a figure of speech, Bobby. Try not to be as literal as a three
year old.



Speaking of figures of speech, "I swear on the life of my sainted aunt"
(or grave, or mother, etc) is one of those figures of speech.

Hey, look at what Google turned up:

http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=683

"Chapter 27 ends the book of Levitcus with a price valuation of different
people and animals. It apparently was a custom in Torah times to swear
'on the life' of a family member or an owned beast. The Torah provides
the actual 'cost' in silver for each relative based on gender and age."

Who knew Tyler was such a Biblical scholar???
  #28  
Old August 24th 04, 12:38 AM
B. Lafferty
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Benjamin Weiner" wrote in message
om...
"B. Lafferty" wrote:
"bobby carter" wrote:


did i miss something here? did i mention anything about killing anyone?


It's just a figure of speech, Bobby. Try not to be as literal as a three
year old.



Speaking of figures of speech, "I swear on the life of my sainted aunt"
(or grave, or mother, etc) is one of those figures of speech.

Hey, look at what Google turned up:

http://www.jewishgates.com/file.asp?File_ID=683

"Chapter 27 ends the book of Levitcus with a price valuation of different
people and animals. It apparently was a custom in Torah times to swear
'on the life' of a family member or an owned beast. The Torah provides
the actual 'cost' in silver for each relative based on gender and age."

Who knew Tyler was such a Biblical scholar???


The question begs--Who's worth more, Haven or Tugboat?


  #29  
Old August 24th 04, 01:16 AM
warren
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Posts: n/a
Default

In article , Bob Schwartz
wrote:

TritonRider wrote:
From: warren


7. Anyone that has talked to an Italian doctor.

7a. Tell public that your contact with Italian doctor was innocent
seeking of legal training advice.

Just because Ferrari knows a lot about doping and has probably helped
riders do it does not mean he can't still provide valuable training
advice. The rider chooses for himself whether or not to accept any
advice provided. Or did you mean some other Italian doctor? All I get
from the one I know is legal training advice.


I'm pretty sure that Andy and Kyle could get together to come up with a hell
of a doping program if they chose to, so does that mean we are all suspect
for
talking to them?
Bill C


One commonality between Andy, Kyle, and the guy Warren get his advice from
is that they are all less well off financially than that other Italian
doctor. He charges a high premium for his advice. In addition there is
other baggage involved in working with him in that lots of people (not
just Lafferty) will assume you are doping. Voet said as much in his book.
The value of the advice you get from him has to outweigh the cost and
other factors involved in working with him.

So if LANCE is getting legal training advice from Ferrari then he must
be getting advice that is significantly more valuable than that available
from Testa. Or Andy or Kyle. Because the cost, by a number of measures,
is way higher.

It is really an economic decision.


I won't divulge the prices paid to Max for his advice but I will say
that pro riders in Europe pay him a significant amount for each month.
Just because Ferrari is higher profile to you says nothing about what
each guy is worth, or paid. Remember that Max is paid by one of the top
riders (Cioni) on a top team, and was paid well by Mapei before that.

The thing with Lance and Ferrari is relatively simple and there are
several reasons why Lance would work with Ferrari.

There are not an abundance of guys like Ferrari that are available to
coach individual riders like Lance because most of the other
well-qualified guys are working full time for a European pro team, or
in Max's case, he is a full-time MD at UC Davis Sports Medicine, and if
he stopped doing that he'd accept one of the several standing offers he
has to coach a top pro team. So basically, Lance can only work with who
is available.

Second, Lance and Ferrari know each other well, and for a long time and
this makes their whole process more effective.

Finally, Ferrari has a relatively high interest in pushing the envelope
for what is legal or ethical means for an athlete and this approach is
probably attractive to Lance, even if Lance draws a line below that for
himself that most of us would agree with.

-WG
  #30  
Old August 24th 04, 01:22 AM
TritonRider
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Posts: n/a
Default

From: warren

I won't divulge the prices paid to Max for his advice but I will say
that pro riders in Europe pay him a significant amount for each month.
Just because Ferrari is higher profile to you says nothing about what
each guy is worth, or paid. Remember that Max is paid by one of the top
riders (Cioni) on a top team, and was paid well by Mapei before that.

The thing with Lance and Ferrari is relatively simple and there are
several reasons why Lance would work with Ferrari.

There are not an abundance of guys like Ferrari that are available to
coach individual riders like Lance because most of the other
well-qualified guys are working full time for a European pro team, or
in Max's case, he is a full-time MD at UC Davis Sports Medicine, and if
he stopped doing that he'd accept one of the several standing offers he
has to coach a top pro team. So basically, Lance can only work with who
is available.

Second, Lance and Ferrari know each other well, and for a long time and
this makes their whole process more effective.

Finally, Ferrari has a relatively high interest in pushing the envelope
for what is legal or ethical means for an athlete and this approach is
probably attractive to Lance, even if Lance draws a line below that for
himself that most of us would agree with.

-WG





I can't dipute any of this and generally agree, but it also doesn't reduce my
feeling that Lance would go to the mat for Ferrari based on their realtionship.
I think that there are a ton of reasons for Lance to continue the realtionship
that has nothing to do with doping, as he has stated.
Thanks Warren
Bill C
 




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