#21
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Zabel second
In article , "trg"
wrote: Actually, Voelkler wasn't doing more than his fair share of work. His greatest talent is to make it appear like he does more work he does. He's a very clever rider ("malin" in French). I am constantly reminded of the way he won the French nationals a few years back. It looks like he's giving it all he's got , but he's really holding back. Did you see how he was often last in the climb, struggling, but always managed to make it back? And then on on lap where he was behind Cano and Cano got dropped, he bridged the gap with ease. On French Eurosport there was in fact a discussion of this prompted by a viewer's question. And Jacky Durand and the other expert (Bernadeau?) basically said that he works less than the others, but makes it look like he works more, including in the World's. So if he was just a bit stronger, he'd be dangerous. He has shown moments of having pretty fair tactical smarts. Add that to good acting skills and he could be someone to watch for. I'm not all that certain he'll ever get that much stronger, though. -- tanx, Howard Never take a tenant with a monkey. remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok? |
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#22
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Zabel second
Howard Kveck wrote:
In article , RonSonic wrote: On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:33:07 GMT, Keith wrote: On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 08:27:13 -0700, "Robert Chung" wrote: Who'd'a thunk? yeah, poor guy, the excellent Swiss commentator Bertrand Dubout (I skip France2/3 and Eurosport to watch cycling on TSR now, these guys crack me up) was howling, "Zabel, le Malheureux" in his microphone ! Kinda makes you wonder how Zabel could spoil a chance like that though, Bettini certainly deserved to win after breaking loose twice, but Zabel should be able to beat him in a sprint, same goes for Valverde of course. Everybody underestimates Bettini as a sprinter. The guy has a tremendous acceleration. The only way you're going to beat him is by being a great sprinter yourself and timing it out perfectly so that he can't come around on you. That's true, but I'd add that he's a very strong sprinter at the end of a very long day. Being strong at the end of a moderately long race in the middle of a GT is one thing, but having punch at the end of 265 or more km is another thing altogether. The interesting thing for me is that he could win a race like LBL, but when he goes for similar stages in GTs, he always comes up short. It may have something to do with the kind of riders he's up against, but then again, he has won mountainous classics over Tour contenders. |
#23
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Zabel second
Sonarrat schreef: Howard Kveck wrote: In article , RonSonic wrote: On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 19:33:07 GMT, Keith wrote: On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 08:27:13 -0700, "Robert Chung" wrote: Who'd'a thunk? yeah, poor guy, the excellent Swiss commentator Bertrand Dubout (I skip France2/3 and Eurosport to watch cycling on TSR now, these guys crack me up) was howling, "Zabel, le Malheureux" in his microphone ! Kinda makes you wonder how Zabel could spoil a chance like that though, Bettini certainly deserved to win after breaking loose twice, but Zabel should be able to beat him in a sprint, same goes for Valverde of course. Everybody underestimates Bettini as a sprinter. The guy has a tremendous acceleration. The only way you're going to beat him is by being a great sprinter yourself and timing it out perfectly so that he can't come around on you. That's true, but I'd add that he's a very strong sprinter at the end of a very long day. Being strong at the end of a moderately long race in the middle of a GT is one thing, but having punch at the end of 265 or more km is another thing altogether. The interesting thing for me is that he could win a race like LBL, but when he goes for similar stages in GTs, he always comes up short. It may have something to do with the kind of riders he's up against, but then again, he has won mountainous classics over Tour contenders. It's a question of timing. After the spring classics he lacks freshness to overpower Giro and Tour contenders on classic-like stages. The Vuelta on the other hand is his preparation for the Worlds, Zurich and Lombardy. |
#24
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Zabel second
Sonarrat wrote: The interesting thing for me is that he could win a race like LBL, but when he goes for similar stages in GTs, he always comes up short. he doesn't win all the time, no one does. but he is a "big race" rider who can come up with the win even when he's the most favoured and marked (olympics, LBL, worlds). |
#25
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Zabel second
wrote in message s.com... Sonarrat wrote: The interesting thing for me is that he could win a race like LBL, but when he goes for similar stages in GTs, he always comes up short. he doesn't win all the time, no one does. but he is a "big race" rider who can come up with the win even when he's the most favoured and marked (olympics, LBL, worlds). Moreover, a 2-4 km power climb in the Ardenne is substantially different than a 60 minute, 15 km climb in the Dolomites. Riders talk about it in interviews often; the extra hour of racing in a classic makes a huge difference in who can win. Sastre, Leipheimer, Landis, Kloden, Basso and that ilk are great climbers but are never going to be a realistic threat in the final run in to the finish of a classic. Using LBL and Lombardia as the 'mountainous classic' examples we see that: LBL - prior to Vinokourov's victory in 05 and Valverde this year, you need to go back to Hinault in 1980 for a GT guy to win it. This assumes we don't count the two dopers (Hamilton 2003; Berzin 1994) or Sean Kelly (1984 and 1989) who won in Spain but was he really a true threat to actually win the TdF or Giro? Lombardia also only has widely scattered GT men. Cunego in 2004, Rumsas in 2000 (he was clean wasn't he?), Jalabert (1997), Rominger (1992) and finally Hinault in 1984. -Mike |
#26
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Zabel second
Keith wrote:
Kinda makes you wonder how Zabel could spoil a chance like that though, Bettini certainly deserved to win after breaking loose twice, but Zabel should be able to beat him in a sprint, same goes for Valverde of course. I have a good picture of Bettini chilling at the back of the pack on the first hill of the fourth lap (1 meg) and a short video of the final sprint from the 300 meter line, where Bettini is still in fourth position (33.5 megs). I'll send them to the first person who can host them. I was about 10 meters from the Bettini fan club when they heard the news. I think his mom almost kissed me. |
#27
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Zabel second
Kyle Legate wrote:
I was about 10 meters from the Bettini fan club when they heard the news. I think his mom almost kissed me. Have you been there long enough to pass the Gringioni test of foreign language fluency? http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...d95c7dae74017b Bob Schwartz |
#28
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Zabel second
In article , Sonarrat wrote:
The interesting thing for me is that he could win a race like LBL, but when he goes for similar stages in GTs, he always comes up short. It may have something to do with the kind of riders he's up against, but then again, he has won mountainous classics over Tour contenders. Kenny and Amit both gave good reasons for this, but I'll add that there really aren't many stages in a GT that actually compare to a classic. The length and the typs of climbs are different (usually). Mike Owens also gave a good reason why your choice for the Belgian team, Wim van Huffel, wasn't a realistic choice. He's good at the sustained climbs seen in a GT, but those guys rarely can make up enough ground on guys who're good at repeatedly doing the short, sharp climbs that are found in a circuit race like Worlds. -- tanx, Howard Never take a tenant with a monkey. remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok? |
#29
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Zabel second
Bob Schwartz wrote:
Kyle Legate wrote: I was about 10 meters from the Bettini fan club when they heard the news. I think his mom almost kissed me. Have you been there long enough to pass the Gringioni test of foreign language fluency? http://groups.google.com/group/rec.b...d95c7dae74017b Bob Schwartz I admit, I've been cutting classes, but I do recognise a mistake in the referenced post. Subconsciously, I must be fluent but I feel dirty speaking German. |
#30
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Zabel second
Howard Kveck schreef: In article , Sonarrat wrote: The interesting thing for me is that he could win a race like LBL, but when he goes for similar stages in GTs, he always comes up short. It may have something to do with the kind of riders he's up against, but then again, he has won mountainous classics over Tour contenders. Kenny and Amit both gave good reasons for this, but I'll add that there really aren't many stages in a GT that actually compare to a classic. The length and the typs of climbs are different (usually). Agreed. What is het highest climb in a classic? The Jaizkibel? The Jaizekibel is even a climb they do with the big gear. There is no classics climb that compares to a 1st category Tour climb. But on the other hand i would like to see how e.g. the Koppenberg affects GT riders like Ullrich or Cunego. That's a climb that really cutts of a rider's legs. Not only the type of climbs, there are simply no stages with a 260km distance. I truely believe in this 200km mark where classics riders distinguish themselves from the stage riders. A GT stage has like an average distance between 180 and 200km. Only a single flat stage can sometimes be 240km long. Kenny |
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