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Beware of Lone Peak Packs Non-Warranty



 
 
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  #11  
Old December 5th 08, 09:19 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
Mike Jacoubowsky
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Posts: 1,452
Default Another Lifetime Non-Warranty

"Tim McNamara" wrote in message
...
In article ,
SMS wrote:

Ecnerwal wrote:
Well, I don't know if the blame is with the LBS or Arizona
Innovations, but I've been trying to get a "lifetime warranted"
floor pump repaired, replaced or credited (since AZ Inno does not
seem to make actual pumps anymore, just CO2 fill systems, which are
of no interest to me) for over 6 months now. Nothing.


Maybe the lesson here is to shop at REI. They'll make good on
warranties that the manufacturer doesn't want to honor, or more
likely they force the manufacturer to honor the warranty.


Most likely REI just eats the cost and sells the item for pennies on
the
dollar at the monthly "scratch and dent" sale. REI has a "100%
satisfaction" policy.

The warranty is part of the value of a product from Arkel or LonePeak
since luggage products often have straps and buckles that fail. You
pay for the warranty in the high price of the item.


Or at least you thought you did.


Most better shops try to deal only with companies that take care of
things that shouldn't have happened. That's one of the reasons we don't
deal with a major company known for wheels, because their idea of
"customer service" when something goes wrong is abysmal. As it is we eat
it from time to time on product that went bad where either the
manufacturer might not be in business or simply doesn't take care of
things (and perhaps for that reason we no longer sell the product).
Life's too short to deal with suppliers that don't stand behind their
product. Sometimes something might be so popular that you think you have
to, but doing so just "enables" such companies to continue to not take
care of their customers.

Please note that I'm not making a case for "100% satisfaction" no matter
what. If something happens that shouldn't under reasonable use, fine.
But some people will put products through use that they weren't designed
for, and often were even warned ahead of time that it was inappropriate
for the task. Being excessively lenient on such things increases the
costs for everybody.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


Ads
  #12  
Old December 5th 08, 10:26 AM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Another Lifetime Non-Warranty

Tim McNamara wrote:

Most likely REI just eats the cost and sells the item for pennies on the
dollar at the monthly "scratch and dent" sale. REI has a "100%
satisfaction" policy.


The used gear sales I've seen at REI usually aren't more than 50% off. I
doubt if they lose money, considering their margins, especially if it's
clothing or accessories. A little different on hard goods. They bin
their returns, and some do go back to the manufacturer for credit or
repair, and some are sold as seconds or damaged goods.

The warranty is part of the value of a product from Arkel or LonePeak
since luggage products often have straps and buckles that fail. You
pay for the warranty in the high price of the item.


Or at least you thought you did.


I've had some stores honor warranties. Sears is very good about
Craftsman tool warranties. That's a case of the tool not being of all
that great quality, but the warranty making up for it.
  #13  
Old December 5th 08, 04:25 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
slide
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Posts: 55
Default Beware of Lone Peak Packs Non-Warranty

Andre Jute wrote:


What a stupid, stupid thing for Lone Peak to do. They've just
motivated you to put on the permanent record that their word is no
good. They were actually at the top of my list for replacement
luggage, as my old Trek bag is no longer made, but now they're right
off it, and their claim (or agent's claim -- I saw it on ebay) that no
case of failed stitching is known is exposed as untrue. -- Andre Jute


Why is everybody here so quick to take the OP's word on this
transaction? Perhaps the strap was caught in a spoke & the OP forgot
that or his wife caught it and said nothing.

Condemning a company w/o inspecting the strap or hearing the POV of the
company strikes me as grossly unfair.
  #14  
Old December 5th 08, 05:15 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
SMS
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Posts: 9,477
Default Beware of Lone Peak Packs Non-Warranty

slide wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:


What a stupid, stupid thing for Lone Peak to do. They've just
motivated you to put on the permanent record that their word is no
good. They were actually at the top of my list for replacement
luggage, as my old Trek bag is no longer made, but now they're right
off it, and their claim (or agent's claim -- I saw it on ebay) that no
case of failed stitching is known is exposed as untrue. -- Andre Jute


Why is everybody here so quick to take the OP's word on this
transaction? Perhaps the strap was caught in a spoke & the OP forgot
that or his wife caught it and said nothing.

Condemning a company w/o inspecting the strap or hearing the POV of the
company strikes me as grossly unfair.


It's really immaterial how the strap came off. There was nothing to
inspect because the strap was gone. At the beginning of the ride, all
four straps were attached and buckled. At the end of the ride, one of
the straps was gone. Maybe it _did_ come apart and get caught in the
spokes, so maybe it was a defective plastic buckle that caused the
problem, I don't know. I was on the same ride, and I noticed it at the
end of the ride when we went to take the bag off.

I must have just talked to a low level employee who was told to look for
reasons that the warranty didn't apply, and come up with explanations as
to what must have happened. It's not the $12.50 (plus another $6 I spent
to send it to them) though if I had known that I'd be charged I probably
would have bought the materials at REI and fixed it myself.
  #15  
Old December 5th 08, 05:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
Bill Sornson[_3_]
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Posts: 254
Default Another Lifetime Non-Warranty

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

Most better shops try to deal only with companies that take care of
things that shouldn't have happened. That's one of the reasons we
don't deal with a major company known for wheels, because their idea
of "customer service" when something goes wrong is abysmal.


Starts with 'E' and ends with 'aston'? (Or is it 'M' and 'avic'? Horror
story there, too.)

Bill "spent $170 repairing $450 rear wheel with maybe 8,000 miles on it" S.


  #16  
Old December 5th 08, 05:27 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
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Posts: 10,422
Default Beware of Lone Peak Packs Non-Warranty

On Dec 5, 3:25*pm, slide wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:

What a stupid, stupid thing for Lone Peak to do. They've just
motivated you to put on the permanent record that their word is no
good. They were actually at the top of my list for replacement
luggage, as my old Trek bag is no longer made, but now they're right
off it, and their claim (or agent's claim -- I saw it on ebay) that no
case of failed stitching is known is exposed as untrue. -- Andre Jute


Why is everybody here so quick to take the OP's word on this
transaction? Perhaps the strap was caught in a spoke & the OP forgot
that or his wife caught it and said nothing.

Condemning a company w/o inspecting the strap or hearing the POV of the
company strikes me as grossly unfair.


You would be right, except I've in one sense or another known Scharfie
for years. It's a matter of character. He doesn't have the imagination
to lie. Furthermore, he's a wannabe bicycling product promoter -- see
his site -- so he doesn't say anything bad about any bike product
purveyor until the said purveyor pulls a major rip or actually kills
someone.

So, in a sense, Scharfie is special, in that his character is on
public display, and has been for years. He's an irritating ******* at
times, but dishonest or malicioious, nah, no one will believe that.
And you can bet Mrs Scharff is as dull as her husband -- ever met an
electronics engineer with an exciting wife?

But there is a sense in which all this is irrelevant. Mike J told us
that as a trader he eats a good bit of bad product that manufacturers
don't stand behind, right up to the limit of obvious abuse. That's the
right thing to do. I bet that over the years the word-of-mouth has
added slowly but steadily to Mike's business.

Whatever Lone Peak thought of Scarfie's undone strap, for 12 bucks
(which presumably includes a little profit, so less) they should have
eaten it. That's a hundred grand's worth of damage he did them today,
minimum; they're probably too small a business, or too inexperienced,
to understand what just happened to them, but manufacturers and
traders in general would do well to remember that the net is a
permanent archive, continuously accessible to future customers.
Nothing fair about that kind of empowerment, of course, but people
will adapt.

Andre Jute
Once upon a time a man in a gray flannel suit
  #17  
Old December 5th 08, 05:29 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
slide
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 55
Default Beware of Lone Peak Packs Non-Warranty

SMS wrote:
slide wrote:


Condemning a company w/o inspecting the strap or hearing the POV of
the company strikes me as grossly unfair.


It's really immaterial how the strap came off. There was nothing to
inspect because the strap was gone. At the beginning of the ride, all
four straps were attached and buckled. At the end of the ride, one of
the straps was gone. Maybe it _did_ come apart and get caught in the
spokes, so maybe it was a defective plastic buckle that caused the
problem, I don't know. I was on the same ride, and I noticed it at the
end of the ride when we went to take the bag off.

I must have just talked to a low level employee who was told to look for
reasons that the warranty didn't apply, and come up with explanations as
to what must have happened. It's not the $12.50 (plus another $6 I spent
to send it to them) though if I had known that I'd be charged I probably
would have bought the materials at REI and fixed it myself.


Steven,

Look. I do not consider you unreliable or a kook. It's just that I'm
leery of condemning a company or individual w/o hearing from them.

Here you are confabulating exchanges within the company which you could
not have known about. Would you like if the company posted first that
some lunatic named Steven ..... conspired with his wife to fake a
warranty claim?

Here I agree with the posters that it was pretty silly & bad biz for the
company to deny you w/o obvious misuse which you say wasn't there.
However, I'm unwilling to say that the company failed to see something
material which caused it to deny warranty.

-paul
  #18  
Old December 5th 08, 05:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
slide
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 55
Default Beware of Lone Peak Packs Non-Warranty

Andre Jute wrote:
On Dec 5, 3:25 pm, slide wrote:



Condemning a company w/o inspecting the strap or hearing the POV of the
company strikes me as grossly unfair.


You would be right, except I've in one sense or another known Scharfie
for years. It's a matter of character. He doesn't have the imagination
to lie. Furthermore, he's a wannabe bicycling product promoter -- see
his site -- so he doesn't say anything bad about any bike product
purveyor until the said purveyor pulls a major rip or actually kills
someone.

So, in a sense, Scharfie is special, in that his character is on
public display, and has been for years. He's an irritating ******* at
times, but dishonest or malicioious, nah, no one will believe that.
And you can bet Mrs Scharff is as dull as her husband -- ever met an
electronics engineer with an exciting wife?

But there is a sense in which all this is irrelevant. Mike J told us
that as a trader he eats a good bit of bad product that manufacturers
don't stand behind, right up to the limit of obvious abuse. That's the
right thing to do. I bet that over the years the word-of-mouth has
added slowly but steadily to Mike's business.

Whatever Lone Peak thought of Scarfie's undone strap, for 12 bucks
(which presumably includes a little profit, so less) they should have
eaten it. That's a hundred grand's worth of damage he did them today,
minimum; they're probably too small a business, or too inexperienced,
to understand what just happened to them, but manufacturers and
traders in general would do well to remember that the net is a
permanent archive, continuously accessible to future customers.
Nothing fair about that kind of empowerment, of course, but people
will adapt.

Andre Jute
Once upon a time a man in a gray flannel suit


per my reply to Steven, I'm not questioning his integrity. It's only on
general principles that I don't accept any story from just one side.

I agree with Mike J & you that the company was stupid to refuse warranty
here unless obvious and gross mis use was obvious. I take Steven's word
that there wasn't
  #19  
Old December 5th 08, 06:18 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
Andre Jute[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,422
Default Beware of Lone Peak Packs Non-Warranty

On Dec 5, 4:40*pm, slide wrote:
Andre Jute wrote:
On Dec 5, 3:25 pm, slide wrote:


Condemning a company w/o inspecting the strap or hearing the POV of the
company strikes me as grossly unfair.


You would be right, except I've in one sense or another known Scharfie
for years. It's a matter of character. He doesn't have the imagination
to lie. Furthermore, he's a wannabe bicycling product promoter -- see
his site -- so he doesn't say anything bad about any bike product
purveyor until the said purveyor pulls a major rip or actually kills
someone.


So, in a sense, Scharfie is special, in that his character is on
public display, and has been for years. He's an irritating ******* at
times, but dishonest or malicioious, nah, no one will believe that.
And you can bet Mrs Scharff is as dull as her husband -- ever met an
electronics engineer with an exciting wife?


But there is a sense in which all this is irrelevant. Mike J told us
that as a trader he eats a good bit of bad product that manufacturers
don't stand behind, right up to the limit of obvious abuse. That's the
right thing to do. I bet that over the years the word-of-mouth has
added slowly but steadily to Mike's business.


Whatever Lone Peak thought of Scarfie's undone strap, for 12 bucks
(which presumably includes a little profit, so less) they should have
eaten it. That's a hundred grand's worth of damage he did them today,
minimum; they're probably too small a business, or too inexperienced,
to understand what just happened to them, but manufacturers and
traders in general would do well to remember that the net is a
permanent archive, continuously accessible to future customers.
Nothing fair about that kind of empowerment, of course, but people
will adapt.


Andre Jute
Once upon a time a man in a gray flannel suit


per my reply to Steven, I'm not questioning his integrity.


I couldn't care less if you questioned Scarfie's integrity; my point
was only that I don't, not on any gentlemanly principle but because
judging character is my business (I'm a novelist). There are a lot of
people of very doubtful integrity on RBT, starting with the dishonest
political rationalizations of the wannabe pinkos, but such
dishonesties are very selective. I don't imagine the same people would
steal money. No one is perfectly honest when his self-image is at
risk.

It's only on
general principles that I don't accept any story from just one side.


Yes, I agree. Kangaroo courts are distasteful. But it would be another
big mistake for this small company to come here and start trading
blows. It's a lose-lose situation for them. They should instead work
to avoid putting themselves in the same situation ever again. (Still
unfair, but practical.)

I agree with Mike J & you that the company was stupid to refuse warranty
here unless obvious and gross mis use was obvious. I take Steven's word
that there wasn't


Are you familiar with the work of John Rawls? At the most basic, Rawls
posits two parties and a cake behind a curtain. One party goes behind
the curtain and may cut the cake any way he pleases. The other party
then goes behind the curtain and chooses his cut of the cake, so that
the cutter must take what is left. Clearly The Veil of Ignorance (the
title of Rawls's groundbreaking book, IIRC) is an incentive to a fair
division of the cake. In this case Scarfie has pulled aside the veil
of ignorance behind which Lone Peak would have preferred to work; and
Lone Peak screwed themselves by not considering whether the guy on the
other side of the curtain could or would retaliate.

Andre Jute
A bowl of water, quickly now, so I can do my Pilate act
  #20  
Old December 5th 08, 06:28 PM posted to rec.bicycles.misc,rec.bicycles.tech
Leo Lichtman[_2_]
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Posts: 255
Default Beware of Lone Peak Packs Non-Warranty

A company can spend huge amounts on advertising without knowing whether it
is paying off. If they would learn to think of warranty payouts as
advertising they would get more bang for the buck by than spending money on
artwork and publishing.


 




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