Tyler tests positive

In article ,
"Robert Chung" wrote:

wrote:
I feel sorry for him, but I also think he's repeatedly
engaged in self-deceptive behavior (to the point
of self-destructive, even as he also derived quite a
few benefits from it) and that he isn't going to improve
until he can stop doing that. Retirement is a start.

Dumbass,

When you're depressed, a lot of behavior is self-destructive. Often, you
even know it's self-destructive but a side-effect of depression is that you
either don't care or you think you deserve it anyway. It's too facile to one
of us to say "retirement is a start". For some people, retirement makes
things *worse*.

I know what you're getting at with the
depressed-people-need-something-to-do, and I'm not belittling that, but
I don't think bike racing was helping.

Armchair diagnoses are always pathetic, and doubly when coming from me,
but he seems to have become a bad bike racer before he became a DHEA
consumer.

Bike racing is a lot of things, but it's not therapy.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
Of course, I have no idea what he'll do for a job...

Ski instructor.

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

I don't think bike racing was helping.

and

Bike racing is a lot of things, but it's not therapy.

That's not for us to say. Maybe it was helping, maybe it was hurting. I
don't know enough about his situation to know. I've been seriously
clinically depressed twice: first, when my first marriage fell apart, and
second, when my mom was ill and dying. I hope his mom recovers but both
those things happened to Hamilton in this last year. In that context, it's
too facile for any of us to say, "Two big changes in his life in a year? A
third one is the path to heath and recovery."

On Apr 17, 9:57*pm, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:
===============
Dumbass -

The front runners in that race are 2 hours/day guys.

Methamphetamine all the way baby.

thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.
===============

I know somebody who was on a RAAM relay team. Caffeine added to IV
drips. Not amphetamines, but where do you draw the line? Even having to
be hooked up to an IV to prevent dehydration and keep sugar levels up
seems questionable, but that was the standard routine.


Dumbass -


And those relay guys only ride 1/4 of the time on average right?


thanks for the input,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

On Apr 17, 11:10*pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
In article ,
*"Robert Chung" wrote:

wrote:
I feel sorry for him, but I also think he's repeatedly
engaged in self-deceptive behavior (to the point
of self-destructive, even as he also derived quite a
few benefits from it) and that he isn't going to improve
until he can stop doing that. *Retirement is a start.

Dumbass,

When you're depressed, a lot of behavior is self-destructive. Often, you
even know it's self-destructive but a side-effect of depression is that you
either don't care or you think you deserve it anyway. It's too facile to one
of us to say "retirement is a start". For some people, retirement makes
things *worse*.

I know what you're getting at with the
depressed-people-need-something-to-do, and I'm not belittling that, but
I don't think bike racing was helping.

Armchair diagnoses are always pathetic, and doubly when coming from me,
but he seems to have become a bad bike racer before he became a DHEA
consumer.

Bike racing is a lot of things, but it's not therapy.



Dumbass -


I knew racers who would get depressed if they didn't get their 3 hours
in each day.

Endorphins. Google my drug/hunter-gatherer theory from another thread.


thanks,

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni.

In article ,
"Robert Chung" wrote:

Ryan Cousineau wrote:

I don't think bike racing was helping.

and

Bike racing is a lot of things, but it's not therapy.

That's not for us to say. Maybe it was helping, maybe it was hurting. I
don't know enough about his situation to know. I've been seriously
clinically depressed twice: first, when my first marriage fell apart, and
second, when my mom was ill and dying. I hope his mom recovers but both
those things happened to Hamilton in this last year. In that context, it's
too facile for any of us to say, "Two big changes in his life in a year? A
third one is the path to heath and recovery."

dumbass: what you and Kurgan said has a lot of merit to it.

For one thing, KG's point about (more unlicensed armchair diagnosis
here) endorphins does tie into the whole "Tyler wasn't training enough"
subtheme of this sad little story.

Now you're making me feel uncomfortable about this all around. For one
thing, I feel bad about dissecting Hamilton's life in such a nonsense
way, although he is a professional entertainer, and I am the audience.

For another thing, his life is a mess, as you point out. That's easy to
underestimate.

You're going to turn me all Chris Crocker. "WHY CAN'T I LEAVE POOR TYLER
ALONE??" I don't know the answer.

OTOH, what's the answer? Excuse the spectacular lapse of judgment (if we
can believe Tyler's version) by a two-time loser and let him back in?
Wrist-slap punishment, or maybe forbid him from riding, but allow
coaching after only 2 years?

I think Susan Walker has the right idea: he should become a ski
instructor.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"In other newsgroups, they killfile trolls."
"In rec.bicycles.racing, we coach them."

Ryan Cousineau wrote:
Of course, I have no idea what he'll do for a job...

Susan Walker wrote:
Ski instructor.

Fattie master coach (although admittedly your chance of picking up a hot
chick is much better if you're a ski instructor).

Kurgan. presented by Gringioni. wrote:
I knew racers who would get depressed if they didn't get their 3 hours in
each day.

I get ****ed off and bad tempered like all those fat sedentary honking car
drivers if I don't get any exercise.

"Paul B. Anders" wrote in news:505864fd-c128-4138-
:

It may not be a popular sentiment, but I am sorry to hear about this
and wish only the best for Tyler. He had some truly impressive and
gutty performances in his career, which hopefully, will be also
remembered along with the bad. I wish I had 10% of the talent he
demonstrated on the bike.

Brad Anders

Why should it matter how Hamilton is remembered? In the past, riders have
faded away and even died with depression being an important factor
(stirring up less debate, I would add). You know what Hamilton will be
remembered for: his dead dog's grave, his broken bones, his vanished twin
and the medal that he was lucky not to lose.

Some riders seem to have a kind of myth attached to them, like dog **** on
their soles that keeps smelling no matter how many times it's washed off.
Hamilton is gutsy. Hamilton is inspiring. Haven loves/loved Hamilton and
supports him. Hamilton is a really nice guy. Hamilton deserves this or
that, he should be remembered so-and-so. He's probably more addicted to
that crap than anything else.

At the core are two things: his public image and his personal life. The
first cannot be repaired, although confessing to blood doping might salvage
a bit. The second, ofcourse, can probably be improved but there is no way
some messages on usenet will contribute to that. The rest is just noise.

It is far too late to try and convince people how they should think about
Hamilton. The story is at it is and, as far as cycling is concerned, over.

Susan Walker wrote:
Why do Americans like to make statements in the form of a Q&A? I don't
know.

n'est-ce pas ?