Tyler tests positive

wrote in
:

correct. we really are not qualified to be the judge in his case,

I was unaware that 'we' took control of a court of law and were deciding on
wether or not Hamilton should go to jail.

The other option is that you're suggesting 'we' are not qualified to make
up our minds with the information as 'we' see fit. Actually, 'we' are; I
can pass moral judgement on Hamilton in any way I want.

On Apr 17, 9:25*am, Kenny Labbé wrote:
On Apr 17, 9:54*am, Bob Schwartz bob.schwa...@sbc

Dude, DHEA is not a rational approach to doping at the level
he is competing at. Just sayin'.

Bob Schwartz

Well, since it's not rational use, we'll let it slide.

Depression is serious. Don't 30 million Americans deal with it? But
I'm wondering if some of his depression wasn't brought on by his own
actions/decisions. I'm sure his conscience would clear if he sent
Ekimov the Gold Medal that he stole.

Last post by me on this. Depression is not 'brought on' by any
external inputs. IF he is indeed clinically depressed, THAT causes his
behavior, his decisions, not the other way around.

"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" wrote in message
.. .

The other option is that you're suggesting 'we' are not qualified to make
up our minds with the information as 'we' see fit. Actually, 'we' are; I
can pass moral judgement on Hamilton in any way I want.

While that's correct be sure to remember that clinical depression is
something pretty awful. It isn't just feeling not up to par. I'm just
getting over something like that caused by an anti-cholesterol drug. It's
been a month since I stopped taking it and I'm still having the occasional
attack. Believe me you don't want that sort of thing.

On Apr 18, 7:25*am, "Jonathan v.d. Sluis" wrote:
wrote :

correct. we really are not qualified to be the judge in his case,

I was unaware that 'we' took control of a court of law and were deciding on
wether or not Hamilton should go to jail.

The other option is that you're suggesting 'we' are not qualified to make
up our minds with the information as 'we' see fit. Actually, 'we' are; I
can pass moral judgement on Hamilton in any way I want.

you can pass moral judgement, but you (and I ) are not qualified to
judge someone who is in essence a figment of media presentation.
Walking in our shoes, we will never be able to put on anothers to
properly decide the moral divide. but it doesn't matter; it is just
internet chit-chat, about as meaningful to an individual as the life
of an ant you stepped on.

On Apr 18, 12:57*am, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
wrote:

I know somebody who was on a RAAM relay team. Caffeine added to IV
drips. Not amphetamines, but where do you draw the line? Even having to
be hooked up to an IV to prevent dehydration and keep sugar levels up
seems questionable, but that was the standard routine.

--Mike-- * * Chain Reaction Bicycleswww.ChainReactionBicycles.com

amphetamines are highly addictive and lose potiency, surely anyone who
uses amphetamines in an endurance sport is really asking for trouble.
the other thing is most people are lazy, they never commit and never
really push themselves, always looking for an easy way. it is
therefore unsurprising to me that some individals are unable to
concieve of achievement without dishonesty in the process- it is a
true reflection of their modus operandi. an epidemic lie that is their
life

In article ,
"Robert Chung" wrote:

wrote:
I feel sorry for him, but I also think he's repeatedly
engaged in self-deceptive behavior (to the point
of self-destructive, even as he also derived quite a
few benefits from it) and that he isn't going to improve
until he can stop doing that. Retirement is a start.

Dumbass,

When you're depressed, a lot of behavior is self-destructive. Often, you
even know it's self-destructive but a side-effect of depression is that you
either don't care or you think you deserve it anyway.

Yeah. One thing about depression is that what seems "logical" often does not make
sense.

It's too facile to one of us to say "retirement is a start". For some people,
retirement makes things *worse*.

In this case, it's taking away one thing that he probably feels he does well and
feels good about. Something he's successful at.

--
tanx,
Howard

Caught playing safe
It's a bored game

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

In article ,
"P. Chisholm" wrote:

On Apr 17, 9:25*am, Kenny Labbé wrote:
On Apr 17, 9:54*am, Bob Schwartz bob.schwa...@sbc

Dude, DHEA is not a rational approach to doping at the level
he is competing at. Just sayin'.

Bob Schwartz

Well, since it's not rational use, we'll let it slide.

Depression is serious. Don't 30 million Americans deal with it? But
I'm wondering if some of his depression wasn't brought on by his own
actions/decisions. I'm sure his conscience would clear if he sent
Ekimov the Gold Medal that he stole.

Last post by me on this. Depression is not 'brought on' by any
external inputs. IF he is indeed clinically depressed, THAT causes his
behavior, his decisions, not the other way around.

Absolutely correct, but the external inputs can exacerbate the depression.

--
tanx,
Howard

Caught playing safe
It's a bored game

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

In article ,
--D-y wrote:

PS Oh yeah, more not-too-close experience with depression has shown
that diagnosis is one thing, while improvement, let alone a "cure" is
quite another altogether. IOW, you don't just take a pill and it's
Mary Poppins time.

The unfortunate thing is how many people think that's true. One has to take any of
the antidepressants for some time for there to be any effect. Just taking one when
you feel bad does next to nothing.

--
tanx,
Howard

Caught playing safe
It's a bored game

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

In article ],
Ryan Cousineau wrote:

In article ,
"Robert Chung" wrote:

wrote:
I feel sorry for him, but I also think he's repeatedly
engaged in self-deceptive behavior (to the point
of self-destructive, even as he also derived quite a
few benefits from it) and that he isn't going to improve
until he can stop doing that. Retirement is a start.

Dumbass,

When you're depressed, a lot of behavior is self-destructive. Often, you
even know it's self-destructive but a side-effect of depression is that you
either don't care or you think you deserve it anyway. It's too facile to
one
of us to say "retirement is a start". For some people, retirement makes
things *worse*.

I know what you're getting at with the
depressed-people-need-something-to-do, and I'm not belittling that, but
I don't think bike racing was helping.

Armchair diagnoses are always pathetic, and doubly when coming from me,
but he seems to have become a bad bike racer before he became a DHEA
consumer.

Bike racing is a lot of things, but it's not therapy.

I'm not all that sure that's accurate. Obviously, things like this vary wildly
from depressed person to depressed person, but in TH's case, the bike racing may have
been a positive thing. It was something he did well, something that helped him feel
like less of a failure. Obviously, I don't know if he felt like a failure, but that
is a pretty common thing in depression, though it's often pretty subconciously felt.

As for the fact he was taking an over the counter herbal antidepressant instead of
the Celexa his doctor prescribed: he said in the CN article that he had doubled the
dose of Celexa when he llearned his mother was ill. He had to have done that on his
own, because I doubt his doctor would have suggested doing that. Dosage increases are
always gradual and one of the reasons for that is the increased side effects. He also
said that he stopped taking it altogether after the two weeks of double dosing, which
is also a mistake. The doctor would have had him lower the dosage gradually over a
few weeks. And don't think that the side effects are trivial:

http://depression.emedtv.com/celexa/...e-effects.html

--
tanx,
Howard

Caught playing safe
It's a bored game

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?

On Apr 18, 11:05 am, wrote:

amphetamines are highly addictive and lose potiency, surely anyone who
uses amphetamines in an endurance sport is really asking for trouble.

As I understand things, amphetamines and other dangerous drugs that
are used to get high don't lose "potency". Rather, the user adapts to
the drug and, as time goes on, needs higher and higher amounts to get
high, while the lethal dosage amount stays pretty much the same.

I'd guess a good part of the attraction of using "speed" to enhance
physical performance is the "game day buzz" one could get on, but the
actual enhancement of physical performance, if any, would be at least
fairly constant.

I think the "highly addictive" part is right, at least for some people
in some situations, especially if talking about other "uppers" (in a
broad sense) like cocaine or especially crack cocaine.

Amphetamines have been heavily used in many sports. IRT cycling, I've
heard the old saw: "You can tell the speeders by spotty performance--
way up one day, way down the next".

the other thing is most people are lazy, they never commit and never
really push themselves, always looking for an easy way. it is
therefore unsurprising to me that some individals are unable to
concieve of achievement without dishonesty in the process- it is a
true reflection of their modus operandi. an epidemic lie that is their
life

Or, it could just be that if you know everyone else is juicing, with
little-to-no fear of being caught due to bad rules and bad
enforcement, that you need to juice, too, or go out the back door,
giving up fame, fortune, and the opportunity to mate with whomever you
want!
--D-y