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In praise of Brooks saddles



 
 
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  #41  
Old December 13th 19, 07:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
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Default In praise of Brooks saddles

Tom Kunich wrote:

"pro-capitalist"? You don't believe that you should have to make
your own way in this life? That the F-ing world owes you a living?


No, I believe working people deserve fair compensation, and simply having wealth doesn't entitle you to the spoils of others' labor. I believe money should be a public utility and not a treasure hoard. And I believe that economic surpluses should serve the needy and the public good, not allow the development of perversions like billionaires.

I believe the world doesn't owe rich fux a living just for being rich.
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  #42  
Old December 13th 19, 08:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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On 12/13/2019 12:59 PM, Chalo wrote:
Tom Kunich wrote:

"pro-capitalist"? You don't believe that you should have to make
your own way in this life? That the F-ing world owes you a living?


No, I believe working people deserve fair compensation, and simply having wealth doesn't entitle you to the spoils of others' labor. I believe money should be a public utility and not a treasure hoard. And I believe that economic surpluses should serve the needy and the public good, not allow the development of perversions like billionaires.

I believe the world doesn't owe rich fux a living just for being rich.


Good luck with that.

As Tom Sherman often noted, people who advocate communal
systems stop short when asked to share one toothbrush with
the neighborhood.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #43  
Old December 13th 19, 11:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 10:59:46 -0800 (PST), Chalo
wrote:

Tom Kunich wrote:

"pro-capitalist"? You don't believe that you should have to make
your own way in this life? That the F-ing world owes you a living?


No, I believe working people deserve fair compensation, and simply having wealth doesn't entitle you to the spoils of others' labor. I believe money should be a public utility and not a treasure hoard. And I believe that economic surpluses should serve the needy and the public good, not allow the development of perversions like billionaires.

I believe the world doesn't owe rich fux a living just for being rich.



Oh! You mean like Bill Gates? Or maybe Larry Page? Or Sergey Brin? Or
even Mark Zuckerberg?

I could go on, I suppose, but what's the sense, as you know that the
world doesn't owe rich fux a living just for being rich.... even when
they made the money themselves.

As for money being a "public utility"? Hey, a really great idea! And
how much of your salary will you be committing to this scheme?
--
cheers,

John B.

  #44  
Old December 14th 19, 06:34 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
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Default In praise of Brooks saddles

I think Huey Long had it right. In fact, I think he was killed for getting the formula right for the largest possible number of people.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_Our_Wealth
  #45  
Old December 14th 19, 10:46 AM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
jOHN b.
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On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 21:34:12 -0800 (PST), Chalo
wrote:

I think Huey Long had it right. In fact, I think he was killed for getting the formula right for the largest possible number of people.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_Our_Wealth


Actually Huey did a lot for Louisiana. Free school books, built a lot
of bridges, etc., and at the same time seized almost complete control
of the state. He bragged that he had "taken over every board and
commission in New Orleans except the Community Chest and the Red
Cross. By the middle of 1935 he had the state legislature rubber
stamping about any piece of legislature he proposed.

He was assassinated by Carl Weiss, the son-in-law of Judge Benjamin
Henry Pavy. The assassination took place almost immediately after Long
had convinced the Legislature to alter Pavy's judicial district
ensuring that Judge Pavy could not be re-elected.

As a side note, the Weiss family apparently still refuses to believe
that Carl actually shot Long.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #46  
Old December 14th 19, 03:10 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Default In praise of Brooks saddles

On 12/13/2019 8:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/13/2019 7:53 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Friday, December 13, 2019 at 2:57:00 PM UTC-8, John B.
wrote:
On Fri, 13 Dec 2019 10:59:46 -0800 (PST), Chalo
wrote:

Tom Kunich wrote:

"pro-capitalist"? You don't believe that you should
have to make
your own way in this life? That the F-ing world owes
you a living?

No, I believe working people deserve fair compensation,
and simply having wealth doesn't entitle you to the
spoils of others' labor. I believe money should be a
public utility and not a treasure hoard. And I believe
that economic surpluses should serve the needy and the
public good, not allow the development of perversions
like billionaires.

I believe the world doesn't owe rich fux a living just
for being rich.


Oh! You mean like Bill Gates? Or maybe Larry Page? Or
Sergey Brin? Or
even Mark Zuckerberg?

I could go on, I suppose, but what's the sense, as you
know that the
world doesn't owe rich fux a living just for being
rich.... even when
they made the money themselves.

As for money being a "public utility"? Hey, a really
great idea! And
how much of your salary will you be committing to this
scheme?


I think Chalo's point would be that those men did not make
money themselves. Gates, for example, didn't write a line
of code for DOS. He bought it from a guy who worked in a
local computer shop. It was a rip-off of CPM. Gates made
some good moves when IBM came calling looking for an
operating system, and the rest is history.

Gates was certainly captain of the ship, but he had a crew
and ultimately a huge crew. The question is whether the
crew was well treated, and judging by Seattle, Redmond and
Medina, I would say yes. Does Gates pay enough in taxes?
Maybe yes and maybe no -- Chalo would certainly say no,
and in 1958, the answer would certainly be no. He would be
in an 80% tax bracket.


I think it's undeniable that if you compare someone like
Bill Gates with an equally intelligent and motivated black
kid in the inner city, and if they both had precisely the
same idea for a business, the black kid would have far, far
less chance of getting rich. The difference was not the
dollar value of his inheritance. It was the background, the
opportunities, the connections.

The differences will probably be there forever. If your dad
is a prominent lawyer, you'll be able to meet and become
familiar with a lot more influential people than if your dad
is a janitor. IOW, "The poor you will always have with you."
But once someone is pulling in an income that's 100 times
what anyone needs to live in reasonable comfort, they should
be paying a much greater percentage of it to help keep our
society functioning. Hell, if it just went for pothole
repair, that would be something. How many Maseratis or
luxury homes does someone deserve?

It is tough setting brackets at a place that generates
enough revenue to run the country but avoids capital
flight. Tax policy is not easy. The Trump cuts, however,
were just foolish. They resulted in a massive deficit with
no trickle-down to ordinary Americans -- who will get left
holding the tab. Trump is now filling budget holes with
tariffs and SNAP and TANF cuts. Ordinary Americans will
pay the price of corporate tax rate cuts without any
reduction in the price of goods. It's not like corporate
America is passing on the tax savings to consumers.

I totally understand young people pointing out the massive
wealth gap and the unfairness of the system -- although
that is not a reason to ****-can the system. It just
needs fixing in a non-torch and pitchfork way.


Yes. And making the tax system more progressive isn't
torching the system. It's worked before.




The US tax system is among the most punitively 'progressive'
on earth already.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #47  
Old December 14th 19, 04:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Chalo
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Posts: 5,093
Default In praise of Brooks saddles

John B. wrote:

But why do you insist making your comparison with a society that has,
in many cases, been "on the dole" for generations, that apparently has
no motivation what so ever to hold a job.
[...]
Or to put it another way, how do you help someone who makes no effort
to help himself?


Your eagerness to conflate "no motivation to hold a job" and "no effort to help himself" with unwillingness to contribute to or participate in a system that has cheated and repressed him/her for hundreds of years, and continues to do so, is duly noted. You are entitled to your opinion, but it would make more sense after appropriately scaled reparations are made in full.

As for me, I withhold my participation in a corrupt and broken economic system by only working for my friends (for as little time and money as I can manage to survive on), buying the minimum necessary of the cheapest and simplest possible supplies, making and salvaging almost everything else, and freely gifting and bartering my time and abilities. The first rule of not being manipulated is to minimize the places where your adversary can get a grip on you.

Having too deep a vested interest in a bad way of doing things makes you a worse person. Just look at what car ownership has done to people's character and scruples. The pursuit of money is even worse. And to judge by results, the possession of a concentration of wealth is worst of all.
  #48  
Old December 14th 19, 04:40 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Frank Krygowski[_4_]
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Default In praise of Brooks saddles

On 12/14/2019 9:10 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/13/2019 8:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:


Yes. And making the tax system more progressive isn't
torching the system. It's worked before.


The US tax system is among the most punitively 'progressive' on earth
already.


Got numbers on that?



--
- Frank Krygowski
  #49  
Old December 14th 19, 04:56 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default In praise of Brooks saddles

On 12/14/2019 9:40 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/14/2019 9:10 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/13/2019 8:18 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:


Yes. And making the tax system more progressive isn't
torching the system. It's worked before.


The US tax system is among the most punitively
'progressive' on earth already.


Got numbers on that?




16th of 195 :
https://www.investopedia.com/taxes/c...-income-taxes/

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #50  
Old December 14th 19, 05:04 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
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Posts: 13,447
Default In praise of Brooks saddles

On 12/14/2019 9:32 AM, Chalo wrote:
John B. wrote:

But why do you insist making your comparison with a society that has,
in many cases, been "on the dole" for generations, that apparently has
no motivation what so ever to hold a job.
[...]
Or to put it another way, how do you help someone who makes no effort
to help himself?


Your eagerness to conflate "no motivation to hold a job" and "no effort to help himself" with unwillingness to contribute to or participate in a system that has cheated and repressed him/her for hundreds of years, and continues to do so, is duly noted. You are entitled to your opinion, but it would make more sense after appropriately scaled reparations are made in full.

As for me, I withhold my participation in a corrupt and broken economic system by only working for my friends (for as little time and money as I can manage to survive on), buying the minimum necessary of the cheapest and simplest possible supplies, making and salvaging almost everything else, and freely gifting and bartering my time and abilities. The first rule of not being manipulated is to minimize the places where your adversary can get a grip on you.

Having too deep a vested interest in a bad way of doing things makes you a worse person. Just look at what car ownership has done to people's character and scruples. The pursuit of money is even worse. And to judge by results, the possession of a concentration of wealth is worst of all.


Centuries of oppression? Sure, pretty average experience
actually:

http://www.yellowjersey.org/photosfromthepast/myusa.jpg

Or as a famous actor said, "You say you can't escape your
ghetto? Bus leaves every day."

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


 




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