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Chapman: One Of Many Ridiculous Statements



 
 
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  #1  
Old July 29th 08, 04:50 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Nuxx Bar
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Posts: 1,790
Default Chapman: One Of Many Ridiculous Statements

From http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk:8080...ly/Paul_Smith:

"I am reluctant to leave the judgement of appropriate speed to the
driver, for two excellent reasons: first, the driver is not impartial
- any benefit from going faster accrues to them, and most of the
danger accrues to others; and second, most drivers overestimate their
skill."

So, Crapman is "reluctant to leave the judgement of appropriate speed
to the driver"? That's strange, because even if every metre of road
in this country was covered by speed cameras, drivers would *still*
have to judge the appropriate speed within the speed limit. (And they
do it very well, which is why (for example) you get millions of queues
at traffic lights every day without drivers ploughing into the back of
the queue or anything else like that.)

So, why has Crapman made such a statement on a pro-speed camera page?
I can think of two possible reasons.

1. Crapman's understanding of the driving process is so woeful that he
really believes that speed cameras (coupled with stupidly low speed
limits) cause the driver not to need to judge appropriate speed.

2. Crapman knows perfectly well that judging an appropriate speed is a
fundamental part of driving. He knows that you can't have driving
without drivers judging an appropriate speed; therefore, since he's
against drivers judging an appropriate speed, he is against driving
full stop. Which, of course, has been obvious for a very long time.

Personally, I think it's probably 2. I also like the pompous anti-
motorist ******** that follows, which basically makes out that all
motorists are so selfish that they'll routinely and quite happily put
other people in genuine danger just so that they can get to their
destination quicker. If that's not anti-motorist rhetoric then what
is? How dare he claim that all motorists hold the lives of other road
users in such scant regard? The hypocrisy is unbelievable,
considering that it's Chapman who actually holds the lives of road
users in scant regard; we know that because he supports cameras
despite knowing that they kill people.
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  #2  
Old July 29th 08, 06:56 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Just zis Guy, you know?
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Posts: 1,612
Default Chapman: One Of Many Ridiculous Statements

On Tue, 29 Jul 2008 08:50:53 -0700 (PDT), Nuxx Bar
said in
:

"I am reluctant to leave the judgement of appropriate speed to the
driver, for two excellent reasons: first, the driver is not impartial
- any benefit from going faster accrues to them, and most of the
danger accrues to others; and second, most drivers overestimate their
skill."


Absolutely correct. And that is why we have speed limits, because
ever since the car was first invented people have wanted to go
faster than the conditions allow. But I should have included one
more word: it would be more accurate to say that I am reluctant to
leave the judgment of appropriate speed /solely/ to the driver.

I think that, on the whole, my statement you quote is somewhat more
balanced and defensible than calling someone a mass murderer because
they spotted the gaping flaws in the statistical abuses of an
agenda-driven crank, don't you?

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
  #3  
Old July 30th 08, 11:57 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Nuxx Bar
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Posts: 1,790
Default Chapman: One Of Many Ridiculous Statements

On Jul 29, 6:56*pm, "Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:
agenda-driven


What agenda, and where is your evidence?
  #4  
Old July 30th 08, 12:00 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Nuxx Bar
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Posts: 1,790
Default Chapman: One Of Many Ridiculous Statements

On Jul 29, 6:56*pm, "Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:
But I should have included one
more word: it would be more accurate to say that I am reluctant to
leave the judgment of appropriate speed /solely/ to the driver.


Well, at least you admit that without "solely", the statement is
incorrect. I assume you'll be making the required changes on your
Site Of Hate? (Not that it would be much better with "solely", but
it's a start.)
  #5  
Old July 30th 08, 12:06 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Nuxx Bar
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Posts: 1,790
Default Chapman: One Of Many Ridiculous Statements

On Jul 30, 11:57*am, Nuxx Bar wrote:
On Jul 29, 6:56*pm, "Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote:

agenda-driven


What agenda, and where is your evidence?


And don't worry, I'm still ignoring your posts generally, but I
thought I'd make an exception in this thread, since there wouldn't
have been much point in starting it otherwise. (Now how many of the
trolls who are reading this were about to reply with the oh-so-
obvious, oh-so-amusing "There's not much point in you starting any of
your threads"? Generally the troll-retorts in this newsgroup are
incredibly banal and predictable. I would almost prefer it if they
were clever, but there's no danger of that.)
  #6  
Old July 30th 08, 01:08 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Just zis Guy, you know?
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,612
Default Chapman: One Of Many Ridiculous Statements

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 03:57:46 -0700 (PDT), Nuxx Bar
said in
:

agenda-driven

What agenda, and where is your evidence?


LOL! "Paul Smith, the man with no agenda" - no, not terribly
plausible, that one.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
  #7  
Old July 30th 08, 01:09 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Just zis Guy, you know?
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Posts: 1,612
Default Chapman: One Of Many Ridiculous Statements

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 04:06:44 -0700 (PDT), Nuxx Bar
said in
:

And don't worry, I'm still ignoring your posts generally,


The other one has bells on.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
  #8  
Old July 30th 08, 01:13 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Just zis Guy, you know?
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,612
Default Chapman: One Of Many Ridiculous Statements

On Wed, 30 Jul 2008 04:00:32 -0700 (PDT), Nuxx Bar
said in
:

Well, at least you admit that without "solely", the statement is
incorrect. I assume you'll be making the required changes on your
Site Of Hate? (Not that it would be much better with "solely", but
it's a start.)


Um, no, not incorrect, merely incomplete, and having no actual
bearing on the undoubted truth of the reasoning offered, being
"first, the driver is not impartial - any benefit from going faster
accrues to them, and most of the danger accrues to others; and
second, most drivers overestimate their skill."

Actually most drivers appear to overestimate their skill by a
significant margin.

Oh, and you fail again - you are looking at the old version of the
site, the content has already changed. But don't worry, we don't
expect you to start doing things like basic fact checking, that
would be wholly out of character.

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
  #9  
Old July 30th 08, 02:06 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Matt B
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Posts: 1,927
Default Chapman: One Of Many Ridiculous Statements

Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:

Actually most drivers appear to overestimate their skill by a
significant margin.


The trick is to design and implement road engineering which provides
appropriately "factored" messages to drivers, which accommodate their
egos, yet still deliver sustainable safe driving, and which don't rely
upon ever stricter regulations, ever stricter enforcement and ever
stricter penalties to work.

This is what, during our last two "wasted road safety decades", the
Dutch have invested in, and are now reaping the benefits of.

--
Matt B
  #10  
Old July 30th 08, 03:34 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Nuxx Bar
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,790
Default Chapman: One Of Many Ridiculous Statements

On Jul 30, 2:06*pm, Matt B wrote:
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:



Actually most drivers appear to overestimate their skill by a
significant margin.


The trick is to design and implement road engineering which provides
appropriately "factored" messages to drivers, which accommodate their
egos, yet still deliver sustainable safe driving, and which don't rely
upon ever stricter regulations, ever stricter enforcement and ever
stricter penalties to work.


But you're forgetting that (as far as Chapman is concerned) drivers
are polluting, selfish scum who don't care about others, and therefore
only measures which punish them and make them suffer are acceptable.
If it's a choice between a measure that saves lots of lives and makes
things more pleasant for drivers, and a measure which doesn't save as
many lives but does make things harder for drivers, Chapman will go
for the second option each and every time.
 




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