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#111
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Cyclist hits granny in pavement crash in Brighton
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 14:39:16 -0000, "pk" said
in : Which does not actually change the documented fact that pedestrians are far more likely to be injured on the footway by motorists than cyclists. I think the fact that is documented it the number of reported injuries not the number of injuries per se, there is after all a legal duty to report motor accident causing injury there will be close to 100% reporting of car related injuries but a far lower proportion of the minor cycle/pedestrian collisions will be reported. Reporting of injuries does indeed vary according to severity and cause. Nearly all fatalities, and most serious injuries, are recorded. Trivial injuries are mostly unreported, we can only infer things form the relative prevalence of those injuries which are reported. For example, we know that half of all injury admissions to hospital are due to simple trips and falls, and many of these are on footways. My council says that the major cause of footway trips is damage to the footways by motor vehicle encroachment. probably better, though, to stick with the figures we do have rather than suppositions. And also probably better to look to the causes and how they might be fixed, rather than advocating draconian responses to the symptoms. Especially since the symptom is, in many cases, entirely legal now. Guy -- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound GPG sig #3FA3BCDE http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/pgp-public-key.txt |
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#112
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Cyclist hits granny in pavement crash in Brighton
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 11:59:16 +0000, David Hansen
wrote: On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 08:33:16 +0000 someone who may be "Just zis Guy, you know?" wrote this:- Why not just "start" by arresting footway cyclists, fining them (heavily) and crushing their bikes? For the same reason that you don't treat a runny nose by nasal amputation. It's a symptom, and not even a serious one as far as the available evidence goes. I wonder if the usual suspects would advocate that the driver of any motor vehicle on the pavement was also arrested, heavily fined and the motor vehicle crushed? Any person who illegally drives/rides a vehicle (motor or bike) on the footpath should be fined. If they are intentionally driving the vehicle along the footpath (perhaps to speed up their journey) - then yes the vehicle should be taken and crushed. There will be an awful lot of bikes being crushed . Do you agree? |
#113
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Cyclist hits granny in pavement crash in Brighton
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:27:09 +0000, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
wrote: On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 11:59:16 +0000, David Hansen said in : I wonder if the usual suspects would advocate that the driver of any motor vehicle on the pavement was also arrested, heavily fined and the motor vehicle crushed? Or how about the vehicle is arrested and the driver crushed? ;-) Guy Ho, ho ho Guy - you are a laugh. Any chance of answering a simple question: Do you think that as a pedestrian you are more likely to be hit by a bike being intentionally ridden along the path than you are by a car being intentionally driven along the path. I bet that is going to be too difficult for you. |
#114
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Cyclist hits granny in pavement crash in Brighton
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 14:22:04 +0000, Tony Dragon
said in : I have no idea if the hospital added the incident into the stats, do you? I think you'll find that hospitals add *all* admission incidents to the stats. Guy -- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound GPG sig #3FA3BCDE http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/pgp-public-key.txt |
#115
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Cyclist hits granny in pavement crash in Brighton
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:48:28 +0000, Tony Dragon
said in : You missed the word deliberately after ridden. You missed the point. If large numbers of cycles are deliberately ridden on the footway, legally or not, and vehicles are rarely driven deliberately on the footway, then how much more stark is the contrast between the injury figures, with motor vehicles accounting for many times more reported injuries to pedestrians on the footway than cycles. Guy -- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound GPG sig #3FA3BCDE http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/pgp-public-key.txt |
#116
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Cyclist hits granny in pavement crash in Brighton
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:49:47 +0000, Tony Dragon said in : So you agree with cyclist's breaking the law, glad we have established that. Nope. As I said you agree with cyclist's breaking the law, glad we have established that. I agree with removing the prime incentive for them to do so, which also as it turns out is the major source of risk to pedestrians (on or off the footway) and cyclists alike. You probably didn't notice but I did point out that in many places cycling on the footway is now perfectly legal, due to the application of Magic White Paint (TM). They are now classed a duel use, not footways as yiu well know. You also know that we are talking about pedestrian footways. Note that in many places there are no footways, pedestrians are forced to use the carriageway. So It is long past time that people stopped making excuses for motor danger. Guy Who has done that -- Tony the Dragon |
#117
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Cyclist hits granny in pavement crash in Brighton
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 13:41:56 +0000, Phil W Lee
phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote: "Just zis Guy, you know?" considered Sun, 25 Jan 2009 08:33:16 +0000 the perfect time to write: On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 00:02:05 +0000, JNugent said in : Why not just "start" by arresting footway cyclists, fining them (heavily) and crushing their bikes? For the same reason that you don't treat a runny nose by nasal amputation. It's a symptom, and not even a serious one as far as the available evidence goes. I think you're feeding the trolls Good old ****** - the questions are now becoming much too difficult and are showing cyclists up in a bad light - it's time to play the "troll" card. Here's a difficult one for you: Do you think that as a pedestrian you are more likely to be hit by a bike being intentionally ridden along the path than you are by a car being intentionally driven along the path. -- Example 5 from the definition of a psycholist : 5) The word "troll" is in common usage in Usenet. However, the psycholists have adopted it for their own use to apply to anyone who disagrees with their ingrained and irrational views. This enables them to say "ignore him - he is a troll" when faced with facts which are too unpalatable for the psycholist to contemplate - never mind discuss in a sensible fashion -- Some say that cycling is as safe as walking: There is a 39% greater chance of being killed or seriously injured as a cyclist compared to as a pedestrian (DfT) |
#118
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Cyclist hits granny in pavement crash in Brighton
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 14:39:16 -0000, "pk" said in : Which does not actually change the documented fact that pedestrians are far more likely to be injured on the footway by motorists than cyclists. I think the fact that is documented it the number of reported injuries not the number of injuries per se, there is after all a legal duty to report motor accident causing injury there will be close to 100% reporting of car related injuries but a far lower proportion of the minor cycle/pedestrian collisions will be reported. Reporting of injuries does indeed vary according to severity and cause. Nearly all fatalities, and most serious injuries, are recorded. Trivial injuries are mostly unreported, we can only infer things form the relative prevalence of those injuries which are reported. For example, we know that half of all injury admissions to hospital are due to simple trips and falls, and many of these are on footways. My council says that the major cause of footway trips is damage to the footways by motor vehicle encroachment. probably better, though, to stick with the figures we do have rather than suppositions. And also probably better to look to the causes and how they might be fixed, rather than advocating draconian responses to the symptoms. Especially since the symptom is, in many cases, entirely legal now. Guy If cyclist did not break the law by cycling on footways, the number of incidents (both reported & unreported) would go down. -- Tony the Dragon |
#119
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Cyclist hits granny in pavement crash in Brighton
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 14:22:04 +0000, Tony Dragon said in : I have no idea if the hospital added the incident into the stats, do you? I think you'll find that hospitals add *all* admission incidents to the stats. Guy If you say so, but this has nothing to do with the problem & don't forget not ever incident would end with a hospital visit. -- Tony the Dragon |
#120
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Cyclist hits granny in pavement crash in Brighton
Just zis Guy, you know? wrote:
On Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:48:28 +0000, Tony Dragon said in : You missed the word deliberately after ridden. You missed the point. If large numbers of cycles are deliberately ridden on the footway, legally or not, and vehicles are rarely driven deliberately on the footway, then how much more stark is the contrast between the injury figures, with motor vehicles accounting for many times more reported injuries to pedestrians on the footway than cycles. Guy Note the word 'reported' It is obvious that a pedestrian collision with a motor vehicle would usually be more serious than a cycle collision. How often is it seen that a motor vehicle is deliberately driven on the footway as opposed to the number of times a cycle is deliberately ridden on the footway? -- Tony the Dragon |
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