Pavement cyclist

"John Hearns" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:02:17 +0100, Dave wrote:

electric wheelchairs and the buggy type things that pensioners and
disabled people drive some of them like lunatics.

Yet another target of Daily Mail bigotry.

As someone else pointed out in a past thread, cyclists are rapidly
becoming an easy target for tabloid journalists, now that it is
unacceptable to criticise other segments of society.
Just imagine the article which Simon posted with the word 'cyclist'
replaced with 'black youth'. There would be a perfectly justifiable
outcry.

And let's just think - are electric wheelchairs and buggies REALLY a
danger on the pavements? Or are you just listening too closely to the
sensationalist news reports?
And so what - some old dear clatters your ankle. Better that than a truck
hitting you when you cross the road.


In answer to your question - it depends on the individual, as it does with
cyclists using the pavement.

What I was trying to get across was not to blame ANY one particular type of
user but to say if ALL users were curteous then there would be no problems.

And no I was not listening to tabloid jornalism - but my own observations,
and it may be slighlty less painless to get hit by a pensioner's buggy than
a car or wagon but there is no need for them or anyone else to travel at the
near maximum speed on the pavement especially when there are other users
both lone pedestians and people with prams/buggies with babies in them who
often get banged out of the way by someone trying to push past on an
electric buggy.

DaveB
West Yorks

"Dave" wrote in message
...


And no I was not listening to tabloid jornalism - but my own observations,
and it may be slighlty less painless to get hit by a pensioner's buggy
than
a car or wagon but there is no need for them or anyone else to travel at
the
near maximum speed on the pavement especially when there are other users
both lone pedestians and people with prams/buggies with babies in them who
often get banged out of the way by someone trying to push past on an
electric buggy.

DaveB
West Yorks



One of the funniest things I've seen in a long time was OAP buggy rage. I
kid you not. Two of them, head-on, on a narrow section of footpath in
Dereham. One driven by an elderly lady, the other by an elderly gent. Was
either of them going to give way to each other or to any of the pedestrians
on the footpath? No, oh no... It was road-rage on the footpath. I squeezed
round them (as I was walking) an dlet them get on with it.

Cheers, helen s

As an aside I see Peugeot have chosen to ameliorate their 307
advertising poster with a pavement cyclist for no apparent reason. And
on the wrong side of the road as well.

John Hearns typed


On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 11:02:17 +0100, Dave wrote:

electric wheelchairs and the buggy type things that pensioners and
disabled people drive some of them like lunatics.

Yet another target of Daily Mail bigotry.

As someone else pointed out in a past thread, cyclists are rapidly
becoming an easy target for tabloid journalists, now that it is
unacceptable to criticise other segments of society.
Just imagine the article which Simon posted with the word 'cyclist'
replaced with 'black youth'. There would be a perfectly justifiable outcry.

And let's just think - are electric wheelchairs and buggies REALLY a
danger on the pavements? Or are you just listening too closely to the
sensationalist news reports?
And so what - some old dear clatters your ankle. Better that than a truck
hitting you when you cross the road.

Until the electric buggy knocks a workman off his ladder...

--
Helen D. Vecht:
Edgware.

MartinM wrote:
As an aside I see Peugeot have chosen to ameliorate their 307
advertising poster with a pavement cyclist for no apparent reason. And
on the wrong side of the road as well.

I saw that one this morning. They've also made the cyclist _extremely_ small
in comparison to the car!

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005, Dave wrote:


Personally, I have no problems with riders using pavements providing they
are courteous. It is no different to to sharing in remote areas where the
cycle path is also a footpath, or the canal bank or even sharing with
electric wheelchairs and the buggy type things that pensioners and disabled
people drive some of them like lunatics.

or parents (usually mothers) with buggys, who assume that because they
have a buggy they have right of way to barge past you. But then, everyone
on the pavement seems to think everyone else should give way to them
--
Chris Johns

wafflycat wrote:


One of the funniest things I've seen in a long time was OAP buggy rage. I
kid you not. Two of them, head-on, on a narrow section of footpath in
Dereham. One driven by an elderly lady, the other by an elderly gent. Was
either of them going to give way to each other or to any of the pedestrians
on the footpath? No, oh no... It was road-rage on the footpath. I squeezed
round them (as I was walking) an dlet them get on with it.

I twice this year saw old boys driving electric buggies up the wrong
side of the road against uncoming traffic despite a perfectly good
pavement. Oh well probably less of a hazard than driving their car up a
motorway the wrong way.

On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 11:00:21 +0100, "Dave"
wrote:

Whilst reading something on a local authority road safety website I noticed
that they do not offer cycle training to under 10s as they consider that
they are too young to safely ride on the road and understand the dangers or
training.

The DfT advice is:
Level 1 training - Year 2 (age 7)
Level 2 training - Year 4 (age 9)
Level 3 training - Year 6 (age 11)

Level 1, Beginners and basic cycling skills - held off-road and
teaching children how to control, balance and manoeuvre;

Level 2, Introduction to on road cycling - held on quieter roads in
groups, children will learn where to position themselves when riding
on the road and how to observe traffic, signal, turn/manoeuvre safely
and basic Highway Code;

Level 3, Advanced cycling - held on busier roads to teach skills
required for making longer journeys and to develop strategies to deal
with all types of road conditions - e.g. roundabouts, traffic lights,
multi-lane roads.

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:40:46 +0100, Colin Blackburn
wrote:

As I walked into work today I walked behind a pavement cyclist. I'd seen
him coming up the hill, and it was a fairly steep hill for the bike he
was on. He still made fast enough progress that he didn't inconvenience
me at all despite a few wobbles.

Yesterday's cycle training group (ten 10 year old children) included a
parent who hasn't been on a bike in 20 years and lacks the confidence
to cycle on the road.

I suggested that until she has completed the Level 2 course, she
practice cycling regularly by walking her bike to school with her
children and cycle home on the pavement.

Did I give the wrong advice?

Next week I have a parent who is a complete novice learning with two
children, also complete novices. What advice do I give for her to
practice?

Bertie Wiggins wrote:

On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 09:40:46 +0100, Colin Blackburn
wrote:

As I walked into work today I walked behind a pavement cyclist. I'd seen
him coming up the hill, and it was a fairly steep hill for the bike he
was on. He still made fast enough progress that he didn't inconvenience
me at all despite a few wobbles.

Yesterday's cycle training group (ten 10 year old children) included a
parent who hasn't been on a bike in 20 years and lacks the confidence
to cycle on the road.

I suggested that until she has completed the Level 2 course, she
practice cycling regularly by walking her bike to school with her
children and cycle home on the pavement.

Did I give the wrong advice?

I would never recommend a parent rides on the pavement.
It is not essential that a rider has completed level 2 before being able
to ride on the road.
I would be suggesting that they take further training, perhaps on a
one-to-one basis to gain the essential confidence. It doesn't take much
time for a rider to become accustomed to having other traffic around them.

Pavements are fraught with additional hazards such as blind junctions,
driveways, gates, and other people. If there was a collision with a car
pulling out of a drive, where would you stand as an instructor, having
advised something that was illegal?

In my training, I take children (and adults) to a section of pavement
and carry out a simple sightline exercise using a driveway - to show
just how little time and space they would have to react in, should a
vehicle emerge.
Earlier this year a parent contacted me because their child had had two
accidents, one of which put him in hospital. Both occurred by a car
legitimately pulling out across the pavement on which the youngster had
been told to ride by the parent. I took both of them to the site of one
crash, and ran through the sightline issue. Now he rides to school on
the road :-)

Next week I have a parent who is a complete novice learning with two
children, also complete novices. What advice do I give for her to
practice?

They should not ride on the road until you are happy they have completed
Level 1 and have judged that they have the skills to deal with on-road situations.
You could advise they go to a local park to practice.
Once they have commenced their Level 2 training you could then recommend
that they keep to quiet roads and avoid busy junctions until they have
acheived the necessary levels of confidence for busier roads.

You might like to post your instructor queries to the yahoo instructors group:
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/cycling_instructors/

John B
http://www.hampshirecycletraining.org.uk/