The idiocy of Tom Sherman

I think you'll find that conservatives are closer to traditional
thinking while liberals are more radical - working out things from
first principles.

So while the traditionalists are bemused and offended by "new
thinking", there are times in politics - dirty business that it is -
where the truth can only be found by working out things from first
principles.

If you use a logical and balanced approach and forget a lot of the US
and NATO hype, then you can, for instance, see how USA manipulated
the Balkans to its own ends in such a way that is - as Russia says -
not a million miles away from what's happening in South Ossetia.
Nobody is defending Russia's aggression where their sphere of
influence is threatened but nobody should be defending USA when they
did exatly the same in Grenada and numerous other places under the
Reagan doctrine.

Of course the US is a democracy and as such a better type of
government than others mentioned, but foreign policy is an entity in
itself, democracy or not, and it doesn't help to confuse the two or
create non-sequitors like "all democracies have better foreign
policies".

Andy Evans wrote:

To what are you replying to?

I think you'll find that conservatives are closer to traditional
thinking while liberals are more radical - working out things from
first principles.

So while the traditionalists are bemused and offended by "new
thinking", there are times in politics - dirty business that it is -
where the truth can only be found by working out things from first
principles.

If you use a logical and balanced approach and forget a lot of the US
and NATO hype, then you can, for instance, see how USA manipulated
the Balkans to its own ends in such a way that is - as Russia says -
not a million miles away from what's happening in South Ossetia.
Nobody is defending Russia's aggression where their sphere of
influence is threatened but nobody should be defending USA when they
did exatly the same in Grenada and numerous other places under the
Reagan doctrine.

Of course the US is a democracy and as such a better type of
government than others mentioned, but foreign policy is an entity in
itself, democracy or not, and it doesn't help to confuse the two or
create non-sequitors like "all democracies have better foreign
policies".


Then there is Ed Dolan, who merely likes to bark on the Internet.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”

To what are you replying to?
Then there is Ed Dolan, who merely likes to bark on the Internet.

I must have just fancied a bark myself. Was I off topic by any
chance?

I thought it was an all-purpose generic rant and I was bored with
fitting seats and mudguards on my ex's bikes.

Andy

In article
,
Andy Evans wrote:

I think you'll find that conservatives are closer to traditional
thinking while liberals are more radical - working out things from
first principles.

That was what the Gingrich Revolution proclaimed they were doing, and
one could hardly label them "liberals" as such things are currently
defined.

I call myself a liberal and yet I find myself, in many ways, being more
conservative that the current crop of "conservatives" in Washington and
most state capitols around the US. Fiscal responsibility and a balanced
budget, accountability for program outcomes, government having less
intrusion into people's private lives... the only freedom the
"conservatives" are concerned about these days is making sure favored
industries, corporations and cronies get free money from the taxpayers'
coffers, and don't have to put up with those pesky regulations.

I call myself a liberal and yet I find myself, in many ways, being more conservative that the current crop of "conservatives" .... �Fiscal responsibility and a balanced budget, accountability for program outcomes, government having less intrusion into people's private lives...

That's just good government isn't it? Maybe liberals "intrude" more,
but people are pretty daft in the first place.

Andy

Tim McNamara wrote:
In article
,
Andy Evans wrote:

I think you'll find that conservatives are closer to traditional
thinking while liberals are more radical - working out things from
first principles.

That was what the Gingrich Revolution proclaimed they were doing, and
one could hardly label them "liberals" as such things are currently
defined.

I call myself a liberal and yet I find myself, in many ways, being more
conservative that the current crop of "conservatives" in Washington and
most state capitols around the US. Fiscal responsibility and a balanced
budget, accountability for program outcomes, government having less
intrusion into people's private lives... the only freedom the
"conservatives" are concerned about these days is making sure favored
industries, corporations and cronies get free money from the taxpayers'
coffers, and don't have to put up with those pesky regulations.

Locally, good governance went along with having socialists (Dan Hoan and
Frank Zeidler) running things.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.”

Andy Evans wrote:
I call myself a liberal and yet I find myself, in many ways, being more conservative that the current crop of "conservatives" .... �Fiscal responsibility and a balanced budget, accountability for program outcomes, government having less intrusion into people's private lives...

That's just good government isn't it? Maybe liberals "intrude" more,
but people are pretty daft in the first place.

The Republican Party in the US has moved from being conservative to
reactionary.

--
Tom Sherman - Holstein-Friesland Bovinia
“Mary had a little lamb / And when she saw it sicken /
She shipped it off to Packingtown / And now it’s labeled chicken.�

In article ,
Tim McNamara writes:

I call myself a liberal and yet I find myself, in many ways, being more
conservative that the current crop of "conservatives" in Washington and
most state capitols around the US. Fiscal responsibility and a balanced
budget, accountability for program outcomes, government having less
intrusion into people's private lives... the only freedom the
"conservatives" are concerned about these days is making sure favored
industries, corporations and cronies get free money from the taxpayers'
coffers, and don't have to put up with those pesky regulations.

I rather enjoyed George Carlin's remark about the American Revolution
being fostered by wealthy, white slave owners fighting to be "free."

I guess politics boils down to whomever deserves the Public Money
the most.

It is I. Without me around, the whole world would suck.
So support me, and you'll get to feel good about it.

Politics is just a condoned form of piracy.
We're /all/ pirates (especially the Greens.)


cheers, & bust outa the loop,
Tom


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

In article ,
Tom Sherman writes:
Andy Evans wrote:
I call myself a liberal and yet I find myself, in many ways, being more conservative that the current crop of "conservatives" .... �Fiscal responsibility and a balanced budget, accountability for program outcomes, government having less intrusion into people's private lives...

That's just good government isn't it? Maybe liberals "intrude" more,
but people are pretty daft in the first place.

The Republican Party in the US has moved from being conservative to
reactionary.

I'd like to see Lou Dobbs suddenly get cream-pied
from stage right on live TV.

In mid-sentence.

Timing is everything.


cheers,
Tom


--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Andy is most likely just ignorant of correct posting procedure. I will cut
him some slack just this once.

Your kindness is touching.

Rush Limbaugh does this sort of thing all the time and he can be as wrong as
anybody.

You might just as well talk about Rasputin. I’m Welsh.

It was the god damn Europeans that should have done something about
the
Balkans, not the US.

Quite right. If the USA had not imposed impossible conditions on
Milosovic during initial talks like free access of NATO troops
throughout Serbia and deals regarding pipelines crossing the former
Yugoslavia, Milosovic would not have stormed out and the whole deal
would have been settled between Serbia and Croatia as it should have
been.

we had to step in to save the region from a genocide.

The USA should stay out of counties whose cultures and histories it is
utterly ignorant of. As it turned out, NATO should bear the blame for
the failure of negotiations.

I do not give the Russians credit for anything. Their sphere of
influence should be confined to Russia proper and not extend one inch
beyond
it.

Whereas the USA can interfere anywhere in the globe, even if it can’t
even pronounce the names of the coutries correctly (Kossovo, Iraq)…..

I am in favor of 'realpolitik' at all times.

I’m in favour of politicians who have enough grounding in world
culture and history to have the wisdom to tread carefully and revive
the true art of diplomacy. All we have these days trying to “lead the
free world” is jumped up Hollywood actors, oil barons and lawyers.
Tomorrow we could have reality TV contestants.

And who is not also barking on the Internet? Surely not you?

I’m not averse to a bit of a bark. Woof.

Andy