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  #81  
Old August 14th 18, 06:42 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
JBeattie
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,870
Default Flat repair

On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 9:47:13 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 6:07:42 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 7:10:28 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 5:25:28 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 3:49:02 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 3:03:25 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On 14/08/18 04:15, wrote:
Can you people explain to me why you would buy innertubes, flat repair kits and various methods of inflating flatted tires when you don't have to flat a tire and only need to inflate it if you happen to get a large enough hole in it release sufficient air to soften the tire before it seals again?

1. Lock-in. For the ignorant, and you have to be ignorant not to have
noticed how manufacturers try to lock customers into their product by
making it incompatible with products from other manufacturers. Heck,
they even make their new products incompatible with their own products.

2. Performance. I always laugh at claims of superior performance when
they relie on results from very narrow test conditions.

3. Reliability; tubeless setup fails once. Tube and tyre need to fail
twice to have you walking.

1. Exactly HOW are manufacturers trying to "lock us in" to their product when virtually every new wheels and every new tire tubeless compatible?

2. If you have ever run tests on mechanical components in your life than you know that it is impossible to test for every condition. What we have seen is testing by at least a half dozen source from tire manufacturers to Cycling News testing the rolling resistance of narrow to wide tires and they all report the same outcome - the rougher the roads the less rolling resistance wider tires at lower pressures have compared to narrower higher pressure tires. That is not "very narrow test conditions". The last video showed rolling resistance of the three different TYPES of tires. This was not meant to give precise measurements but relative differences. And as should come as not surprise to anyone capable of engineering, the tire that has the least intercomponent friction the less the relative rolling resistance. Again, these do nothing more than burst myths that have been surrounding bicycle tires for a long time. Anyone that went from the older 18 mm tires at 160 psi to 23 mm tires at 110 psi could and did report this.

3. Tubeless tires cannot fail from small goathead thorns or wires left on the road by wearing through steel belted tires that give you a tube tire flat. A dramatic cut in the tire will destroy them BOTH equally.

Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump because it seems romantic to you.

You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue, don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to their products"
or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a motorcycles.

What do you do if a tubeless tire goes belly-up on a ride? Nothing is indestructible. I would still carry a tube and a pump and/or a CO2 cartridge even if I was on tubeless.

-- Jay Beattie.

How does a tubeless tire go "belly up" on a ride under different conditions than it would a tube tire? Explain to us all what you do if you get a massive cut or a broken cord on your tube tire? I really have a hard time dealing with people that don't think out what they are responding with.


I boot casings with a dollar bill or a Cliff bar wrapper, held in place by an inner tube. What's the fix on a tubeless tire when you cut a casing or get a hole that won't self-seal?

-- Jay Beattie.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4i0ttwnSszY

pfff.....


One of the persons posting on that video indicates that he/she doesn't put in a tube but rather patches the tire with what look like a bacon strip. Mmmmmm. Bacon. https://shop.genuineinnovations.com/...ire-repair-kit Anyway, don't you need a special pump for tubeless to get that big burst of bead-setting air. Is a CO2 cartridge good enough? This is important to me because I want to make repairs as complex as possible being that I have nothing else to do in my life. Actually, though, I might go tubeless on the commuter if it means I can ride over spike strips, glass shards, hand-grenades, homeless, etc.

-- Jay Beattie.

Ads
  #82  
Old August 14th 18, 07:05 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 144
Default Flat repair

On Tue, 14 Aug 2018 07:10:25 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 5:25:28 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 3:49:02 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 3:03:25 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On 14/08/18 04:15,
wrote:
Can you people explain to me why you would buy innertubes, flat repair kits and various methods of inflating flatted tires when you don't have to flat a tire and only need to inflate it if you happen to get a large enough hole in it release sufficient air to soften the tire before it seals again?

1. Lock-in. For the ignorant, and you have to be ignorant not to have
noticed how manufacturers try to lock customers into their product by
making it incompatible with products from other manufacturers. Heck,
they even make their new products incompatible with their own products.

2. Performance. I always laugh at claims of superior performance when
they relie on results from very narrow test conditions.

3. Reliability; tubeless setup fails once. Tube and tyre need to fail
twice to have you walking.

1. Exactly HOW are manufacturers trying to "lock us in" to their product when virtually every new wheels and every new tire tubeless compatible?

2. If you have ever run tests on mechanical components in your life than you know that it is impossible to test for every condition. What we have seen is testing by at least a half dozen source from tire manufacturers to Cycling News testing the rolling resistance of narrow to wide tires and they all report the same outcome - the rougher the roads the less rolling resistance wider tires at lower pressures have compared to narrower higher pressure tires. That is not "very narrow test conditions". The last video showed rolling resistance of the three different TYPES of tires. This was not meant to give precise measurements but relative differences. And as should come as not surprise to anyone capable of engineering, the tire that has the least intercomponent friction the less the relative rolling resistance. Again, these do nothing more than burst myths that have been surrounding bicycle tires for a long time. Anyone that went from the older 18 mm tires at 160 psi to 23 mm tires

at
110 psi could and did report this.

3. Tubeless tires cannot fail from small goathead thorns or wires left on the road by wearing through steel belted tires that give you a tube tire flat. A dramatic cut in the tire will destroy them BOTH equally.

Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump because it seems romantic to you.

You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue, don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to their products"
or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a motorcycles.


What do you do if a tubeless tire goes belly-up on a ride? Nothing is indestructible. I would still carry a tube and a pump and/or a CO2 cartridge even if I was on tubeless.

-- Jay Beattie.


How does a tubeless tire go "belly up" on a ride under different conditions than it would a tube tire? Explain to us all what you do if you get a massive cut or a broken cord on your tube tire? I really have a hard time dealing with people that don't think out what they are responding with.


Jan Heine, of Bicycle Quarterly, wrote an article a year, or so, ago
that describes problems reported with narrow "road tires" blowing off
the rim. The article describes a "test of a Compass Bon Jon Pass 700C
x 35 mm tire on a wheel that we had measured carefully to make sure
its diameter was exactly to spec." The tire was mounted and pumped up
to various pressures and at approximately 108 psi the tire blew off
the rim.

As a result Compass recommends that "Based on this experience, we
recommend: Do not exceed 60 psi (4 bar) when running Compass tires
tubeless. If you need higher pressures, please use tubes. Since the
problems with running tubeless tires at high pressures are not limited
to Compass tires, I'd recommend this for all tubeless tires, and
especially for high-performance tires that are relatively supple.

His closing comment is that "Tubeless technology holds great promise,
but like everything, it should be applied where it makes sense and
where it is safe. In a future post, we'll talk about tips on how to
set up Compass tires tubeless."

See:
https://janheine.wordpress.com/2017/...road-tubeless/



  #83  
Old August 14th 18, 07:17 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 824
Default Flat repair

On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 7:42:33 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 9:47:13 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 6:07:42 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 7:10:28 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 5:25:28 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 3:49:02 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 3:03:25 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On 14/08/18 04:15, wrote:
Can you people explain to me why you would buy innertubes, flat repair kits and various methods of inflating flatted tires when you don't have to flat a tire and only need to inflate it if you happen to get a large enough hole in it release sufficient air to soften the tire before it seals again?

1. Lock-in. For the ignorant, and you have to be ignorant not to have
noticed how manufacturers try to lock customers into their product by
making it incompatible with products from other manufacturers.. Heck,
they even make their new products incompatible with their own products.

2. Performance. I always laugh at claims of superior performance when
they relie on results from very narrow test conditions.

3. Reliability; tubeless setup fails once. Tube and tyre need to fail
twice to have you walking.

1. Exactly HOW are manufacturers trying to "lock us in" to their product when virtually every new wheels and every new tire tubeless compatible?

2. If you have ever run tests on mechanical components in your life than you know that it is impossible to test for every condition. What we have seen is testing by at least a half dozen source from tire manufacturers to Cycling News testing the rolling resistance of narrow to wide tires and they all report the same outcome - the rougher the roads the less rolling resistance wider tires at lower pressures have compared to narrower higher pressure tires. That is not "very narrow test conditions". The last video showed rolling resistance of the three different TYPES of tires. This was not meant to give precise measurements but relative differences. And as should come as not surprise to anyone capable of engineering, the tire that has the least intercomponent friction the less the relative rolling resistance. Again, these do nothing more than burst myths that have been surrounding bicycle tires for a long time. Anyone that went from the older 18 mm tires at 160 psi to 23 mm tires at 110 psi could and did report this.

3. Tubeless tires cannot fail from small goathead thorns or wires left on the road by wearing through steel belted tires that give you a tube tire flat. A dramatic cut in the tire will destroy them BOTH equally.

Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump because it seems romantic to you.

You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue, don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to their products"
or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a motorcycles.

What do you do if a tubeless tire goes belly-up on a ride? Nothing is indestructible. I would still carry a tube and a pump and/or a CO2 cartridge even if I was on tubeless.

-- Jay Beattie.

How does a tubeless tire go "belly up" on a ride under different conditions than it would a tube tire? Explain to us all what you do if you get a massive cut or a broken cord on your tube tire? I really have a hard time dealing with people that don't think out what they are responding with.

I boot casings with a dollar bill or a Cliff bar wrapper, held in place by an inner tube. What's the fix on a tubeless tire when you cut a casing or get a hole that won't self-seal?

-- Jay Beattie.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4i0ttwnSszY

pfff.....


One of the persons posting on that video indicates that he/she doesn't put in a tube but rather patches the tire with what look like a bacon strip. Mmmmmm. Bacon. https://shop.genuineinnovations.com/...ire-repair-kit Anyway, don't you need a special pump for tubeless to get that big burst of bead-setting air. Is a CO2 cartridge good enough? This is important to me because I want to make repairs as complex as possible being that I have nothing else to do in my life. Actually, though, I might go tubeless on the commuter if it means I can ride over spike strips, glass shards, hand-grenades, homeless, etc.

-- Jay Beattie.


First I have to find the problem tubeless solves for me.

Lou
  #84  
Old August 14th 18, 07:30 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
John B. Slocomb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 144
Default Flat repair

On Tue, 14 Aug 2018 11:17:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 7:42:33 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 9:47:13 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 6:07:42 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 7:10:28 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 5:25:28 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 3:49:02 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 3:03:25 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On 14/08/18 04:15,
wrote:
Can you people explain to me why you would buy innertubes, flat repair kits and various methods of inflating flatted tires when you don't have to flat a tire and only need to inflate it if you happen to get a large enough hole in it release sufficient air to soften the tire before it seals again?

1. Lock-in. For the ignorant, and you have to be ignorant not to have
noticed how manufacturers try to lock customers into their product by
making it incompatible with products from other manufacturers. Heck,
they even make their new products incompatible with their own products.

2. Performance. I always laugh at claims of superior performance when
they relie on results from very narrow test conditions.

3. Reliability; tubeless setup fails once. Tube and tyre need to fail
twice to have you walking.

1. Exactly HOW are manufacturers trying to "lock us in" to their product when virtually every new wheels and every new tire tubeless compatible?

2. If you have ever run tests on mechanical components in your life than you know that it is impossible to test for every condition. What we have seen is testing by at least a half dozen source from tire manufacturers to Cycling News testing the rolling resistance of narrow to wide tires and they all report the same outcome - the rougher the roads the less rolling resistance wider tires at lower pressures have compared to narrower higher pressure tires. That is not "very narrow test conditions". The last video showed rolling resistance of the three different TYPES of tires. This was not meant to give precise measurements but relative differences. And as should come as not surprise to anyone capable of engineering, the tire that has the least intercomponent friction the less the relative rolling resistance. Again, these do nothing more than burst myths that have been surrounding bicycle tires for a long time. Anyone that went from the older 18 mm tires at 160 psi to 23 mm

tires at 110 psi could and did report this.

3. Tubeless tires cannot fail from small goathead thorns or wires left on the road by wearing through steel belted tires that give you a tube tire flat. A dramatic cut in the tire will destroy them BOTH equally.

Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump because it seems romantic to you.

You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue, don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to their products"
or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a motorcycles.

What do you do if a tubeless tire goes belly-up on a ride? Nothing is indestructible. I would still carry a tube and a pump and/or a CO2 cartridge even if I was on tubeless.

-- Jay Beattie.

How does a tubeless tire go "belly up" on a ride under different conditions than it would a tube tire? Explain to us all what you do if you get a massive cut or a broken cord on your tube tire? I really have a hard time dealing with people that don't think out what they are responding with.

I boot casings with a dollar bill or a Cliff bar wrapper, held in place by an inner tube. What's the fix on a tubeless tire when you cut a casing or get a hole that won't self-seal?

-- Jay Beattie.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4i0ttwnSszY

pfff.....


One of the persons posting on that video indicates that he/she doesn't put in a tube but rather patches the tire with what look like a bacon strip. Mmmmmm. Bacon. https://shop.genuineinnovations.com/...ire-repair-kit Anyway, don't you need a special pump for tubeless to get that big burst of bead-setting air. Is a CO2 cartridge good enough? This is important to me because I want to make repairs as complex as possible being that I have nothing else to do in my life. Actually, though, I might go tubeless on the commuter if it means I can ride over spike strips, glass shards, hand-grenades, homeless, etc.

-- Jay Beattie.


First I have to find the problem tubeless solves for me.

Lou



True, true :-)

But of course, being NEW! and WONDERFULL! is enough for many folks :-)
(and of course, some people put their faith in hose clamps and fence
wire :-)
  #85  
Old August 14th 18, 07:31 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
AMuzi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13,447
Default Flat repair

On 8/14/2018 1:17 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 7:42:33 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 9:47:13 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 6:07:42 PM UTC+2, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 7:10:28 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 5:25:28 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 3:49:02 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 3:03:25 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On 14/08/18 04:15,
wrote:
Can you people explain to me why you would buy innertubes, flat repair kits and various methods of inflating flatted tires when you don't have to flat a tire and only need to inflate it if you happen to get a large enough hole in it release sufficient air to soften the tire before it seals again?

1. Lock-in. For the ignorant, and you have to be ignorant not to have
noticed how manufacturers try to lock customers into their product by
making it incompatible with products from other manufacturers. Heck,
they even make their new products incompatible with their own products.

2. Performance. I always laugh at claims of superior performance when
they relie on results from very narrow test conditions.

3. Reliability; tubeless setup fails once. Tube and tyre need to fail
twice to have you walking.

1. Exactly HOW are manufacturers trying to "lock us in" to their product when virtually every new wheels and every new tire tubeless compatible?

2. If you have ever run tests on mechanical components in your life than you know that it is impossible to test for every condition. What we have seen is testing by at least a half dozen source from tire manufacturers to Cycling News testing the rolling resistance of narrow to wide tires and they all report the same outcome - the rougher the roads the less rolling resistance wider tires at lower pressures have compared to narrower higher pressure tires. That is not "very narrow test conditions". The last video showed rolling resistance of the three different TYPES of tires. This was not meant to give precise measurements but relative differences. And as should come as not surprise to anyone capable of engineering, the tire that has the least intercomponent friction the less the relative rolling resistance. Again, these do nothing more than burst myths that have been surrounding bicycle tires for a long time. Anyone that went from the older 18 mm tires at 160 psi to 23 mm tir

es at 110 psi could and did report this.

3. Tubeless tires cannot fail from small goathead thorns or wires left on the road by wearing through steel belted tires that give you a tube tire flat. A dramatic cut in the tire will destroy them BOTH equally.

Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch kit, two CO2 cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump because it seems romantic to you.

You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology used on every other rubber tired vehicle in the world is not suited to bicycles but if you're going to argue, don't use inadequate responses like "lock you in to their products"
or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test conditions." when this isn't the case at all. It is far easier to test bicycle tire performance than those of a motorcycles.

What do you do if a tubeless tire goes belly-up on a ride? Nothing is indestructible. I would still carry a tube and a pump and/or a CO2 cartridge even if I was on tubeless.

-- Jay Beattie.

How does a tubeless tire go "belly up" on a ride under different conditions than it would a tube tire? Explain to us all what you do if you get a massive cut or a broken cord on your tube tire? I really have a hard time dealing with people that don't think out what they are responding with.

I boot casings with a dollar bill or a Cliff bar wrapper, held in place by an inner tube. What's the fix on a tubeless tire when you cut a casing or get a hole that won't self-seal?

-- Jay Beattie.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4i0ttwnSszY

pfff.....


One of the persons posting on that video indicates that he/she doesn't put in a tube but rather patches the tire with what look like a bacon strip. Mmmmmm. Bacon. https://shop.genuineinnovations.com/...ire-repair-kit Anyway, don't you need a special pump for tubeless to get that big burst of bead-setting air. Is a CO2 cartridge good enough? This is important to me because I want to make repairs as complex as possible being that I have nothing else to do in my life. Actually, though, I might go tubeless on the commuter if it means I can ride over spike strips, glass shards, hand-grenades, homeless, etc.

-- Jay Beattie.


First I have to find the problem tubeless solves for me.

Lou


Not enough latex spray on your girlfriend's furniture and
carpets:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3BPzTXYlKI

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971


  #86  
Old August 14th 18, 08:32 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Ralph Barone[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 853
Default Flat repair

Duane wrote:
On 14/08/2018 12:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 7:10:28 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 5:25:28 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 3:49:02 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 3:03:25 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On 14/08/18 04:15, wrote:
Can you people explain to me why you would buy innertubes, flat
repair kits and various methods of inflating flatted tires when you
don't have to flat a tire and only need to inflate it if you happen
to get a large enough hole in it release sufficient air to soften
the tire before it seals again?

1. Lock-in. For the ignorant, and you have to be ignorant not to have
noticed how manufacturers try to lock customers into their product by
making it incompatible with products from other manufacturers. Heck,
they even make their new products incompatible with their own products.

2. Performance. I always laugh at claims of superior performance when
they relie on results from very narrow test conditions.

3. Reliability; tubeless setup fails once. Tube and tyre need to fail
twice to have you walking.

1. Exactly HOW are manufacturers trying to "lock us in" to their
product when virtually every new wheels and every new tire tubeless compatible?

2. If you have ever run tests on mechanical components in your life
than you know that it is impossible to test for every condition. What
we have seen is testing by at least a half dozen source from tire
manufacturers to Cycling News testing the rolling resistance of
narrow to wide tires and they all report the same outcome - the
rougher the roads the less rolling resistance wider tires at lower
pressures have compared to narrower higher pressure tires. That is
not "very narrow test conditions". The last video showed rolling
resistance of the three different TYPES of tires. This was not meant
to give precise measurements but relative differences. And as should
come as not surprise to anyone capable of engineering, the tire that
has the least intercomponent friction the less the relative rolling
resistance. Again, these do nothing more than burst myths that have
been surrounding bicycle tires for a long time. Anyone that went from
the older 18 mm tires at 160 psi to 23 mm tires at 110 psi could and did report this.

3. Tubeless tires cannot fail from small goathead thorns or wires
left on the road by wearing through steel belted tires that give you
a tube tire flat. A dramatic cut in the tire will destroy them BOTH equally.

Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch kit, two CO2
cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump because it seems romantic to you.

You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology used on every
other rubber tired vehicle in the world is not suited to bicycles but
if you're going to argue, don't use inadequate responses like "lock
you in to their products"
or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test conditions."
when this isn't the case at all. It is far easier to test bicycle
tire performance than those of a motorcycles.

What do you do if a tubeless tire goes belly-up on a ride? Nothing is
indestructible. I would still carry a tube and a pump and/or a CO2
cartridge even if I was on tubeless.

-- Jay Beattie.

How does a tubeless tire go "belly up" on a ride under different
conditions than it would a tube tire? Explain to us all what you do if
you get a massive cut or a broken cord on your tube tire? I really have
a hard time dealing with people that don't think out what they are responding with.


I boot casings with a dollar bill or a Cliff bar wrapper, held in place
by an inner tube. What's the fix on a tubeless tire when you cut a
casing or get a hole that won't self-seal?


Same here. And the new paper money in Canada is plastic which works
really well for booting a slit tire.
I have no idea what you would do for tubeless tires.



Yeah, but at an MSRP of $5, there's a real incentive to use something else
to boot your tire, like a chunk of Tyvek.

  #87  
Old August 14th 18, 08:34 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Duane[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 401
Default Flat repair

On 14/08/2018 3:32 PM, Ralph Barone wrote:
Duane wrote:
On 14/08/2018 12:07 PM, jbeattie wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 7:10:28 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 5:25:28 PM UTC-7, jbeattie wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 3:49:02 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Monday, August 13, 2018 at 3:03:25 PM UTC-7, news18 wrote:
On 14/08/18 04:15, wrote:
Can you people explain to me why you would buy innertubes, flat
repair kits and various methods of inflating flatted tires when you
don't have to flat a tire and only need to inflate it if you happen
to get a large enough hole in it release sufficient air to soften
the tire before it seals again?

1. Lock-in. For the ignorant, and you have to be ignorant not to have
noticed how manufacturers try to lock customers into their product by
making it incompatible with products from other manufacturers. Heck,
they even make their new products incompatible with their own products.

2. Performance. I always laugh at claims of superior performance when
they relie on results from very narrow test conditions.

3. Reliability; tubeless setup fails once. Tube and tyre need to fail
twice to have you walking.

1. Exactly HOW are manufacturers trying to "lock us in" to their
product when virtually every new wheels and every new tire tubeless compatible?

2. If you have ever run tests on mechanical components in your life
than you know that it is impossible to test for every condition. What
we have seen is testing by at least a half dozen source from tire
manufacturers to Cycling News testing the rolling resistance of
narrow to wide tires and they all report the same outcome - the
rougher the roads the less rolling resistance wider tires at lower
pressures have compared to narrower higher pressure tires. That is
not "very narrow test conditions". The last video showed rolling
resistance of the three different TYPES of tires. This was not meant
to give precise measurements but relative differences. And as should
come as not surprise to anyone capable of engineering, the tire that
has the least intercomponent friction the less the relative rolling
resistance. Again, these do nothing more than burst myths that have
been surrounding bicycle tires for a long time. Anyone that went from
the older 18 mm tires at 160 psi to 23 mm tires at 110 psi could and did report this.

3. Tubeless tires cannot fail from small goathead thorns or wires
left on the road by wearing through steel belted tires that give you
a tube tire flat. A dramatic cut in the tire will destroy them BOTH equally.

Obviously you like carrying around two tubes, a patch kit, two CO2
cartridges and a filler and a mini-pump because it seems romantic to you.

You are perfectly free to feel that the same technology used on every
other rubber tired vehicle in the world is not suited to bicycles but
if you're going to argue, don't use inadequate responses like "lock
you in to their products"
or "testing procedures are only for very narrow test conditions."
when this isn't the case at all. It is far easier to test bicycle
tire performance than those of a motorcycles.

What do you do if a tubeless tire goes belly-up on a ride? Nothing is
indestructible. I would still carry a tube and a pump and/or a CO2
cartridge even if I was on tubeless.

-- Jay Beattie.

How does a tubeless tire go "belly up" on a ride under different
conditions than it would a tube tire? Explain to us all what you do if
you get a massive cut or a broken cord on your tube tire? I really have
a hard time dealing with people that don't think out what they are responding with.

I boot casings with a dollar bill or a Cliff bar wrapper, held in place
by an inner tube. What's the fix on a tubeless tire when you cut a
casing or get a hole that won't self-seal?


Same here. And the new paper money in Canada is plastic which works
really well for booting a slit tire.
I have no idea what you would do for tubeless tires.



Yeah, but at an MSRP of $5, there's a real incentive to use something else
to boot your tire, like a chunk of Tyvek.


It's not like I'm going to keep the 5 bucks in the tire for very long
once I get home...
  #88  
Old August 14th 18, 09:35 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Flat repair

On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 12:47:13 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Snipped

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4i0ttwnSszY

pfff.....

Lou


I like how they used a TUBE for the repair. Might as well just use a tube tire in the first place.

Cheers
  #89  
Old August 14th 18, 10:02 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,261
Default Flat repair

On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 1:35:34 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 12:47:13 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Snipped

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4i0ttwnSszY

pfff.....

Lou


I like how they used a TUBE for the repair. Might as well just use a tube tire in the first place.

Cheers


Why? So that you can get five times the flats as a tubeless setup gets?

Let me ask you again - why do you suppose that every other rubber tired vehicle has changed to tubeless?
  #90  
Old August 14th 18, 11:12 PM posted to rec.bicycles.tech
Sir Ridesalot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,270
Default Flat repair

On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 5:02:36 PM UTC-4, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 1:35:34 PM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Tuesday, August 14, 2018 at 12:47:13 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Snipped

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4i0ttwnSszY

pfff.....

Lou


I like how they used a TUBE for the repair. Might as well just use a tube tire in the first place.

Cheers


Why? So that you can get five times the flats as a tubeless setup gets?

Let me ask you again - why do you suppose that every other rubber tired vehicle has changed to tubeless?


Even when I do loaded (40 to 50 lbs of gear, food and water)touring for two weeks or so on dirt/gravel/trails in northern Ontario Canada I get very few flats in my 26" x 2.125" tires with INNER TUBES. Most trips I don't even get a flat. Why in the world would I want to mes with something that can be so hard to repair? All I have to do if I do get a flat is pull out the flatted tube, check the tire for any debris that has caused the flat and then install the new tube and pump the tire to the pressure needed. Then I can take my time in camp and repair the punctured tube. Tubeless might be okay for some to many of us tubless is an answer to a problem we don't have.

Cheers
 




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