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You really couldn't make it up...



 
 
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  #51  
Old July 17th 13, 06:59 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Judith[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,000
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 18:29:57 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

snip


It is very rare that cyclists ignore motorway restrictions, some
accidentally stray onto motorways, but learner motorists do it quite
deliberately.


Do you have any proof of that?


Unfortunately there is no distinct crime code for learner drivers on
the motorway.

We do know that there are approximately 9.5 million recorded motoring
offences committed each year, and this is likely to be a vast
underestimate of the actual number of crimes committed by motorists.

Indeed, it could be said that motorists are the biggest single group
of criminals in the country, with few exceptions.




So when you said "learner motorists do it quite deliberately." you had no
proof whatsoever and just made it up.

Ads
  #52  
Old July 17th 13, 07:05 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Judith[_4_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,000
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 13:21:36 +0100, "John Benn"
wrote:


"Bertie Wooster" wrote in message


snip


Cyclists never ignore traffic signs and signals?


They do, but a far, far lower percentage than motor vehicles.


Oh dear!


He is so predictable:
--

Pyscholist Rule Number 6a

If people are continually getting the better of you in arguments - fall back on the "But what about motorists, they are much worse ....".
Respond to a post - or start a new thread with some irrelevant item.
It does no good to the actual argument - but it shows you up as a real prat - and hence you are living up to the psycholist creed.
  #53  
Old July 17th 13, 07:42 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,574
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On 17/07/2013 15:22, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 15:02:18 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:03:38 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:02:16 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

snip


In/on what sort of vehicle does the operator most frequently ignore
one-way working, plus red traffic lights, pedestrian-only status
of a facility, etc?

Motor vehicle.


Please Sir : my dad says that that is incorrect: can you try again:
or perhaps provide some evidence if you're sure that you are right.
It would be bad form for an (ex) teacher to be giving out duff gen.

1. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore red traffic lights:
between 50% and 66% of them who have the opportunity to do so, do.
2. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore pedestrian only footways
by driving onto and parking on them.
3. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore speed limits.

The only one of the list which motor vehicle operators do infrequently
is ignore one-way working. However, as I am sure we can all agree, it
does happen.


It is very rare that car drivers ignore one way streets, some accidentally
go up them the wrong way, but cyclists do it quite deliberately.


It is very rare that cyclists ignore speed limits, some accidentally
speed in the royal parks, but motorists do it quite deliberately.


I didn't ask you about speed limits, breaches of which can only be
identified by use of scientific equipment which neither you or I possess.

I asked you about contempt for pedestrian areas (including, but not
limited to, footways), deliberate flouting of one-way working *and* (as
it happens, routine) disobedience of red traffic lights.

Come now... concentrating purely on those three sociopathic activities,
what class(es) of traffic are we talking about?

There's only one.








  #54  
Old July 17th 13, 07:44 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,574
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On 17/07/2013 18:29, Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 16:22:22 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 15:02:18 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 12:03:38 +0100, Judith
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:02:16 +0100, Bertie Wooster
wrote:

snip


In/on what sort of vehicle does the operator most frequently
ignore one-way working, plus red traffic lights, pedestrian-only
status of a facility, etc?

Motor vehicle.


Please Sir : my dad says that that is incorrect: can you try
again: or perhaps provide some evidence if you're sure that you
are right. It would be bad form for an (ex) teacher to be giving
out duff gen.

1. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore red traffic lights:
between 50% and 66% of them who have the opportunity to do so, do.
2. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore pedestrian only
footways by driving onto and parking on them.
3. Motor vehicle operators frequently ignore speed limits.

The only one of the list which motor vehicle operators do
infrequently is ignore one-way working. However, as I am sure we
can all agree, it does happen.

It is very rare that car drivers ignore one way streets, some
accidentally go up them the wrong way, but cyclists do it quite
deliberately.

It is very rare that cyclists ignore motorway restrictions, some
accidentally stray onto motorways, but learner motorists do it quite
deliberately.


Do you have any proof of that?


Unfortunately there is no distinct crime code for learner drivers on
the motorway.


You're wrong (again). It is an offence (a breach of the motorway
regulations) for a learner driver to drive on a motorway.

And the accompanying qualified driver would also be guilty of an offence.


  #55  
Old July 17th 13, 07:45 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,574
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On 17/07/2013 09:25, Pristine Bruise wrote:
Bertie Wooster wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:29:57 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:12:40 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

JNugent wrote:
PW Lee in another newsgroup (and referring to a driver who had been
involved in a traffic accident):

QUOTE:
Why is he not being charged with both failure to stop after the
initial collision and dangerous driving?
He's clearly guilty of both.
ENDQUOTE

How about High Treason as well?

QUOTE:
And there is some evidence that he routinely breaks the law by
driving the wrong way along this one-way street as a shortcut - no
doubt cctv footage could be reviewed to substantiate that.
ENDQUOTE

I'd be all for that being done routinely and significant penalties
being dealt out to offenders.

Anyone care to hazard a submission on what class of vehicular
traffic most often ignores one-way working?

A psycholist told me that stories such as this only make the news
because of their extreme rarity, so the answer is NOT cars.

When was the last time you heard of a cyclist injuring three people
before crashing into a brick wall and a bus?


You are evading the question asked, how unusual.


But you had already answered the question, with, what I can only
assume, is something you can support with data.


Anyway, why should anyone want to equally compare breaking the law in
this way when it is considered a far greater crime to motor, rather
than cycle, the wrong way through a one-way system?


By whom?
  #56  
Old July 17th 13, 07:46 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,574
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On 17/07/2013 10:35, Pristine Bruise wrote:
Mrcheerful wrote:

Pristine Bruise wrote:
Bertie Wooster wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:29:57 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:12:40 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

JNugent wrote:
PW Lee in another newsgroup (and referring to a driver who had
been involved in a traffic accident):

QUOTE:
Why is he not being charged with both failure to stop after the
initial collision and dangerous driving?
He's clearly guilty of both.
ENDQUOTE

How about High Treason as well?

QUOTE:
And there is some evidence that he routinely breaks the law by
driving the wrong way along this one-way street as a shortcut -
no doubt cctv footage could be reviewed to substantiate that.
ENDQUOTE

I'd be all for that being done routinely and significant
penalties being dealt out to offenders.

Anyone care to hazard a submission on what class of vehicular
traffic most often ignores one-way working?

A psycholist told me that stories such as this only make the news
because of their extreme rarity, so the answer is NOT cars.

When was the last time you heard of a cyclist injuring three people
before crashing into a brick wall and a bus?


You are evading the question asked, how unusual.

But you had already answered the question, with, what I can only
assume, is something you can support with data.

Anyway, why should anyone want to equally compare breaking the law in
this way when it is considered a far greater crime to motor, rather
than cycle, the wrong way through a one-way system?


Can you let me know the statute that says that?


Your common sense should be enough for you to know that is true


Oh. I see. You made it up.

You shoulda sed.
  #57  
Old July 17th 13, 07:48 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,574
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On 17/07/2013 12:53, Pristine Bruise wrote:
John Benn wrote:

"Pristine Bruise" wrote in message
...
Bertie Wooster wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:29:57 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:12:40 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

JNugent wrote:
PW Lee in another newsgroup (and referring to a driver who had been
involved in a traffic accident):

QUOTE:
Why is he not being charged with both failure to stop after the
initial collision and dangerous driving?
He's clearly guilty of both.
ENDQUOTE

How about High Treason as well?

QUOTE:
And there is some evidence that he routinely breaks the law by
driving the wrong way along this one-way street as a shortcut - no
doubt cctv footage could be reviewed to substantiate that.
ENDQUOTE

I'd be all for that being done routinely and significant penalties
being dealt out to offenders.

Anyone care to hazard a submission on what class of vehicular
traffic most often ignores one-way working?

A psycholist told me that stories such as this only make the news
because of their extreme rarity, so the answer is NOT cars.

When was the last time you heard of a cyclist injuring three people
before crashing into a brick wall and a bus?


You are evading the question asked, how unusual.

But you had already answered the question, with, what I can only
assume, is something you can support with data.

Anyway, why should anyone want to equally compare breaking the law in
this way when it is considered a far greater crime to motor, rather
than cycle, the wrong way through a one-way system?


If you kill someone while on a bicycle, the law will treat you in exactly
the same way as if you were driving a car or lorry.


Exactly as it should be, but the potential to kill someone is less
when cycling than driving.


In that case, the cyclist should be punished more severely, since he
cannot so easily plead that it was just one of those things.

IOW, he's more likely to have been trying to do it, or at least to have
been far more reckless as to whether or not it happened.
  #58  
Old July 17th 13, 07:49 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,574
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On 17/07/2013 13:49, Pristine Bruise wrote:
John Benn wrote:

"Pristine Bruise" wrote in message
...
John Benn wrote:

"Pristine Bruise" wrote in message
...
Bertie Wooster wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:29:57 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:12:40 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

JNugent wrote:
PW Lee in another newsgroup (and referring to a driver who had been
involved in a traffic accident):

QUOTE:
Why is he not being charged with both failure to stop after the
initial collision and dangerous driving?
He's clearly guilty of both.
ENDQUOTE

How about High Treason as well?

QUOTE:
And there is some evidence that he routinely breaks the law by
driving the wrong way along this one-way street as a shortcut - no
doubt cctv footage could be reviewed to substantiate that.
ENDQUOTE

I'd be all for that being done routinely and significant penalties
being dealt out to offenders.

Anyone care to hazard a submission on what class of vehicular
traffic most often ignores one-way working?

A psycholist told me that stories such as this only make the news
because of their extreme rarity, so the answer is NOT cars.

When was the last time you heard of a cyclist injuring three people
before crashing into a brick wall and a bus?


You are evading the question asked, how unusual.

But you had already answered the question, with, what I can only
assume, is something you can support with data.

Anyway, why should anyone want to equally compare breaking the law in
this way when it is considered a far greater crime to motor, rather
than cycle, the wrong way through a one-way system?

If you kill someone while on a bicycle, the law will treat you in exactly
the same way as if you were driving a car or lorry.

Exactly as it should be, but the potential to kill someone is less
when cycling than driving.


That is true but the magnitude of the offence is the same.


So, we are agreed that the potential to kill someone is less
when cycling than driving and we are agreed that should you kill
someone with a bicycle or a car, the magnitude of the offence is the
same.

I don't really know what we are arguing about here now. Given that the
potential to kill someone is higher driving rather than cycling,
doesn't it just follow that the offence of riding a bike through a
one-way system the wrong way should be of a lower magnitude than the
offence of doing the same thing in a car?


No.

One-way working is not only about the risk of a fatal accident.

What made you think it was?
  #59  
Old July 17th 13, 07:50 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
jnugent
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 11,574
Default You really couldn't make it up...

On 17/07/2013 12:12, Mrcheerful wrote:
Bertie Wooster wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 11:53:25 +0100, "John Benn"
wrote:

"Bertie Wooster" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 08:12:40 +0100, "Mrcheerful"
wrote:

JNugent wrote:
PW Lee in another newsgroup (and referring to a driver who had
been involved in a traffic accident):

QUOTE:
Why is he not being charged with both failure to stop after the
initial collision and dangerous driving?
He's clearly guilty of both.
ENDQUOTE

How about High Treason as well?

QUOTE:
And there is some evidence that he routinely breaks the law by
driving the wrong way along this one-way street as a shortcut -
no doubt cctv footage could be reviewed to substantiate that.
ENDQUOTE

I'd be all for that being done routinely and significant penalties
being dealt out to offenders.

Anyone care to hazard a submission on what class of vehicular
traffic most often ignores one-way working?

A psycholist told me that stories such as this only make the news
because of
their extreme rarity, so the answer is NOT cars.

When was the last time you heard of a cyclist injuring three people
before crashing into a brick wall and a bus?

This sort of event, if extremely rare with motor vehicles, never
happens with cyclists.

Cyclists never ignore traffic signs and signals?


They do, but a far, far lower percentage than motor vehicles.

But that was not my claim.


Strange, because I see cyclists ignore traffic signs , signals and sense
every day. It is a real event to see a cyclist that is riding legally for
any distance. So it would seem that something over 99 per cent of cyclists
routinely break traffic regulations...


....is the correct answer.
 




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