Considering a Road bike for commuting... good idea?

On Wed, 06 Aug 2003 16:23:13 GMT, Wayne Pein wrote:

:
:
: One thing I can't believe no one has mentioned yet is that road handlebars
: are considerably safer than MTB handlebars.
: Since they are narrower, you are *way* less likely to be clipped by a car
: while riding on a road with little to no shoulder.
:
: - Boyd S.
:
:I ride both and I find this statement to not be true at all. If motor vehicles
:are close enough that a few extra inches of handlebar width is the difference
:between getting hit or not, then you must be either Superman or a nut case or
:both. I've certainly been passed very closely and very fast but never that
:close. And over the years I've come to realize that how I position myself
:laterally has a lot to do with how motorists pass me. If you teeter on the
:edge using as little lane as possible, you are inviting motorists to pass, and
:sometimes they do it unsafely. Counterintuitively, if you move further out
:into the lane than at first feels comfortable, overtaking motorists are
:induced into being more cautious when passing. They tend to slow down and move
ver. Your lateral position is critical in how you expect motorists to
vertake.
:
:Wayne

Wayne, you are absolutely right and you make a great point and I've
maybe never seen it said before. You also explain it well enough and
EVERYBODY should read and reread what you say. I've been very well aware
of this stuff for a long time and that's why I don't get in bike
accidents. It's also important to resist the temptation to ride busy
streets. I used to do it and broke myself of this foul habit. Ride the
safest routes you can find. And ride them safely.

However, Wayne, you are wrong to think that a car can't wing you with
wide handlebars. I believe it happened to me once and I prefer my narrow
Maes bars for this reason. If your handlebars are 2.5 feet wide, you are
asking for trouble regardless of the way you ride. There's only so much
room in some circumstances.

That being said, read Wayne's admonitions. Give yourself those extra
inches just in case if you have to veer away from traffic, never ever
(if you can possibly help it) ride so close to a vehicle so that an
opening door can whack you, and jockey for position with traffic, be
conspicuous and get into the heads of the drivers so they give you some
room, like Wayne says.

Dan

On 07 Aug 2003 14:20:30 +0100 (BST), David Damerell
wrote:

:Werehatrack wrote:
:In the early '70s, when road bikes were All the Rage, and the mtb
:wasn't even a gleam in a marketer's eye, cheap road-pattern bikes were
:plentiful...and just as crummy as the Mall-Wart mtbs that are being
:pumped out today.
:
:I don't think that's quite true - the mass market ten-speeds were at least
:reasonably good at going from one place to another quite quickly. :-/

What are we talking about here? Nishiki's, Raleighs, Schwinns?

On 07 Aug 2003 14:27:42 +0100 (BST), David Damerell
wrote:

:jacques wrote:
:If you have to ride
:any distance on unpaved roads don't get a road bike. I also favor my
:hybrid because it has lights (half of the year I commute by night),
:fenders (it may rain), and rack (I do sweat much more if I carry my bag on
:my back).
:
:But these are not inherent properties of the design - my light touring
:bike has all of these things.

Definitely. My road bike has a large back basket and a removeable very
adequate rechargable light. I don't require fenders.

On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 04:12:24 GMT, Joel Lowrie
wrote:

:I just did this last week, a car munched my old mountain bike (trek
:830) and a very guilt ridden motorist bought me a new cannondale (R4).
:I enjoy a 12 mile each way commute through downtown chicago every day,
:and i have to say that the road bike actually has a smoother ride than
:the mountain bike. That and the road bike cut nearly 10 min. off of my
:commute. I would recommend either getting fitted at your LBS or
:breaking out the measuring tape and go to this site
http://www.bsn.com/Cycling/ergobike.html). I took a 20 min. test ride
:before and after fitting. you would not believe how much more
:comfortable a road bike is when it actually fits.

This fitting is fine but I'm American and converting to Kg and cm I can
do, but European shoe size is beyond me. Is there a site that won't
require these conversions?

Dan

On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 01:37:29 -0500, Tom Sherman
wrote:

:
:Fabrizio Mazzoleni wrote:
:
: Tom Sherman wrote in message ...
: I have a 22T granny ring and 24, 28 and 34T [1] cogs on my bike.
:
: Tom did you read my post awhile back where I
: stated the well known fact that roadies NEVER
: climb with a even number cog!
:
: Use a 19 or 21. And a 23 for climbing mount
: Zoncolan and the Alto L'Angliru.
:
: If you're stuck stateside then keep the 23 off, you
: only need a 21. Guys will check your cogset out
: before the ride starts, you don't want someone
: like me finding a girly 23 on your bike.
:
:Fabrizio,
:
:Wouldn't an "elite roadie" such as yourself be rather embarrassed if you
:were seen to be checking out my bike [1]?
:
:You are also forgetting that I am not a roadie, but a degenerate
:recumbent lowracer rider.
:
:[1] http://www.ihpva.org/incoming/2002/sunset/Sunset001.jpg
:
:Tom Sherman - Quad Cities USA (Illinois side)

At the risk of getting flamed I'd like to ask what's the appeal of
recumbents. I see them often in Berkeley, CA and I always think they
look silly. They look as though they are not very manueverable. I wonder
what I would do if I had to avoid trouble quickly. Also the extremely
low riding position appears to me to be extremely dangerous. You can't
see over many objects. Are all these people suffering from back
conditions?

Dan

make a search for shoe size conversion. you'll get a table that will
list your size in american and european.

Dan Musicant wrote:

On Thu, 07 Aug 2003 04:12:24 GMT, Joel Lowrie
wrote:

:I just did this last week, a car munched my old mountain bike (trek
:830) and a very guilt ridden motorist bought me a new cannondale (R4).
:I enjoy a 12 mile each way commute through downtown chicago every day,
:and i have to say that the road bike actually has a smoother ride than
:the mountain bike. That and the road bike cut nearly 10 min. off of my
:commute. I would recommend either getting fitted at your LBS or
:breaking out the measuring tape and go to this site
http://www.bsn.com/Cycling/ergobike.html). I took a 20 min. test ride
:before and after fitting. you would not believe how much more
:comfortable a road bike is when it actually fits.

This fitting is fine but I'm American and converting to Kg and cm I can
do, but European shoe size is beyond me. Is there a site that won't
require these conversions?

Dan

Dan Musicant wrote:
wrote:
I don't think that's quite true - the mass market ten-speeds were at least
reasonably good at going from one place to another quite quickly. :-/
What are we talking about here? Nishiki's, Raleighs, Schwinns?

In Britain I remember Raleigh and Peugeot as the most prolific
manufacturers, although given my age I saw only the end of the ten-speed
boom.
--
David Damerell Kill the tomato!

Thu, 07 Aug 2003 15:25:39 GMT,
, Dan Musicant
wrote:

What's an "MTB?" Multi-terrain bicycle?

"Mountain Bike", as in, Mt.B.
--
zk

On 7 Aug 2003 03:48:33 -0700, Luigi de Guzman wrote:
well at minimum I'd prevent very young drivers from being able to
drive very high-powered cars. Have four classes, or so, based on
engine displacement. Have them wait two years before they can drive
the next-highest class--and when time comes around for the highest
class, administer a second, more comprehensive, knowledge and skills
examination.

This is not good. For one thing, displacement is not a good
predictor or measure of anything at all, except maybe fuel usage.

If you're trying to limit their speed, then power-to-weight ratio
might be more useful. Even then, they'll upgrade their cars; and
the ones who don't have their own will drive their parents car,
even if it's overpowered. You can't fault them for driving their
parent's car, even if it's otherwise more powerful than you think
they should be allowed.

I came late to driving and in my opinion it wasn't a bad thing. At
21, my capacity for doing *stupid* things with the car is a lot less
than it would have been at 16...especially since I know that doing
similarly stupid things on a bike would have gotten me killed.

At 17, I learned to drive on:
--A 10,000 pound dumptruck
--A 7,500 pound van
--A 4,000 pound old Caddillac.

Driving large, underpowered, ill-handling vehicles taught me
how to be very careful and how to control a vehicle well, as
well as interacting with and predicting behaviour of traffic.

There's something to be said for that, then, as well as the
"give them a little bit at a time" approach.

What's _really_ going to work, however, is not controlling
what vehicles can be driven at what age. Instead, proper
education and practice could make all the difference. I
don't know about how it is elsewhere, but here in the US,
specifically in Rhode Island, here's how we do it:

- Take a "Driver's education" course. Learn the rules.
- Take a written test, get a "learning permit" allowing
you to drive with a licensed driver as a passenger
- Keep the permit for X number of weeks or months, I don't
remember how long. You're supposed to get X amount of
hours of driving experience.
- Take a _useless_ road test. They have you drive slowly
around the block and down the street a bit, and
all. It doesn't prove anything, and safe drivers can
fail it from inconsequential mistakes (example: I was
nervous and driving a car I wasn't used to, and ran
over a curb on a tight corner. I barely passed
because of that).

At no point are they concerned with safe or courteous
driving, nor the ability to drive on the many different
types of roads you will encounter, in many different
types of conditions.

I can't imagine a single test that would certify all of
those abilities, but some system could probably be made
to work. Either way, it's not realistic to expect any
good standards, so to hell with it...I'll just expect
every single driver to be a bad driver who's additionally
had a few drinks.

-Luigi
--
Rick Onanian

On 07 Aug 2003 14:20:30 +0100 (BST), David Damerell
wrote:
I don't think that's quite true - the mass market ten-speeds were at
least
reasonably good at going from one place to another quite quickly. :-/

My girlfriend has a Schwinn Caliente from the end
of that period, maybe 1992 or so. It's quite a nice
ride, actually, even with only a double crank and
5 speeds, and friction shifters mounted to the stem,
and a pink, ladies frame.

--
Rick Onanian