Drivers: How can you love something you hate so much?

Sat, 07 Aug 2004 20:33:26 GMT,
, "S o r n i"
wrote:

Bill "and a jerky one at that" S.

But not one crippled by any dependency on their private automobile
since I don't own one yet easily get everywhere I usually need to go.

Taxis stink too but I'll use one if I must. Same with an ambulance or
pick-up truck. You still can't deny the fact of their reeking stench.

I just happen to think that cars aren't cool compared to patio
furniture. I also feel a so-called culture that worships its cars to
the extent voiced in these x-posted messages is worthy of the most
demeaning ridicule. They further expressed the spiteful brattiness
drivers regularly exhibit in traffic.

What's not cool is the destruction of civil society wrought by
overwhelming reliance on private automobiles as a means to its own
ends.
--
zk

..

Taxis stink too but I'll use one if I must. Same with an ambulance or
pick-up truck. You still can't deny the fact of their reeking stench.

I own a pick-up truck and don't think it smells bad, ever try taking a bath
before you get into one? :)

On Sun, 08 Aug 2004 11:58:40 -0700, Scott en Aztlan
wrote:

Is it any wonder Americans prefer to drive, even when there are
transit options available?

No

Regards, Steve (near AC NJ)
99 GL 1500, bunch of ex bikes--who cares

I agree with Zoot - cars are an awful idea. The only worse ideas are
those suggested, to date, to replace cars.

The folks who hate cars and want to do away with them really need to
stop complaining and present an honest-to-goodness practical
alternative. I've looked at every alternative I've seen presented and
have yet to see even one that was practical.

Jeff

"DonQuijote1954" wrote in message
om...
"Pete" wrote in message
.. .
"DonQuijote1954" wrote

[useless NG's snipped]

[why do i bother?]
You ever been to Holland, DQ?

No, but I've seen it in pictures.

And looking at pictures in Playboy makes you a great lover, too.


Go there, study the environment. Investigate the economic, geographic,
and
societal differences between Holland and the US.

If I were an expert in the field, like those bicycle coordinators we
got in the county, I'd like go there and check it out. Maybe, who
knows, we can learn a lesson or two.

You keep saying we should do it like they do, but you've never actually been
there and tried it.

So far, of course, we know better as to worry to go there.

Not sure what this unintelligible phrase means, but I *have* been there. As
well as Germany, Spain, England, among other places.

OK, the Dutch system is no good, we should then learn from who?

No. Notice I never said the transportation systems used in Holland are no
good. It works well, in that particular environment.
But until you can articulate at least two negative aspects in the way bikes
are integrated in Dutch daily transportation, I'll continue to see you as a
clueless fanboy.


Pete
Because the bicycle is a much larger segment of transportation in China
than
in the US, does that mean we should try to emulate their economic and
transportation model as well?

OK you don't want to learn from Holland, China or any other country.
That would be un American...
How about learning from a little place
right here in America where the bicycle and the electric vehicle and
the SUVs coexist? Well, have you been to Key West?

Key West? No. Never been there. But what do conditions on a small resort
island have to do with general transportation issues in the rest of the
country?
Maybe we should emulate the Disneyland model instead. All deliveries
underground. No vehicles in sight. Everyone walking around smiling.
Or maybe the whole country could be like New York City. Cabs, buses,
subways. The only drivers are rich fools.

How about learning from a little place called the end of my driveway. Right
here in midwest America. From my driveway, I have a HUGE selection of paved
surfaces, that go everywhere I could imagine. The only limit is my legs and
lungs. And sometimes the weather.

I, unlike you, actually ride my bike here and there. To the store, to work,
to the library. Do I ride exclusively? Nope. But I DO ride when it suits. Me
and my bike coexist quite well with the evil SUV's.

You, OTOH, merely spout the same old claptrap about a monkey, a lion, and
communism.

Pete

On 8 Aug 2004, DonQuijote1954 wrote:

Correction: the numbers I gave before were for bicycling. These are
the combined figures...

We should take these European countries to international court for
denying the right of the elderly and children to die...

(The walking/bicycle ridership for Holland is 46%, for Denmark is 41%,
and for the good ol' US of A is 7%)

Do you realize that Denmark has fewer residents than New York City? Or
that one can realistically bike across Holland in a few days but that it
would take several weeks to bike across the US? Or that a country
like Belgium is approximately the size of Maryland and that Maryland is
the 8th smallest of 50 states in the US? Or that the logistics for
distributing goods in a massive country with large landlocked areas is
completely different than those for distributing goods in a tiny country
completely accessible by sea, and that considerations like this might make
optimum transportation models slightly different given that transit
infrastructures and shipping infrastructures are related?

Please consider the logistics before waving around a holy grail of
bicycling/walking. I'm not opposed to the idea; in fact I've done more
mass transit and bicycle commuting in my life than automobile commuting.
However IMO if you expect rational people to take you seriously you need
to come across as having logically considered things and sensationalizing
an arbitrary statistic is not a good way to do this. It's a politican or
marketers's tactic. Yuck.

Dave