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Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving
This one has me minded to reach for the cluebat:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspap...097961,00.html Emilie Harris, 20, was crushed under the wheels of the single decker bus after she was knocked off her mountain bike two years ago in Oxford city centre. Ms Harris, a first-year student of human sciences at St Catherine’s College, died instantly. The inquest was told that the driver, Paul Willis, 47, was chatting to colleague Henry Stuart who was standing on a platform at the front of the bus seconds before the student was killed. Richard Whittington, the assistant deputy coroner for Oxford, said that Mr Willis had broken drivers’ regulations by having someone on the platform at the front of the bus. Police Constable Stephen Moffat, who investigated the incident, said Mr Willis had been travelling too fast and too close to Emilie. He said that although the bus had been travelling at under 25mph at the time of the incident, he should have been doing the same speed as Emilie’s cycle, which was believed to have been travelling at 8mph. “He had not given himself any margin for error,” he said. “I think he should have been travelling at the same speed as Emilie. He should have weighed up what was ahead of him.” Witnesses told the inquest how they had heard a “thud” shortly before the bus ran over her body. CCTV images taken from the bus showed Emilie cycling in front of the bus two seconds before she was run over. Emilie, who was wearing a crash helmet, was wearing flip-flops on the day of the incident in May 2004, which may have contributed to her falling off the bike, the inquest was told. Recording a verdict of accidental death Dr Whittington said that having his colleague on the platform next to him must have been a distraction to the driver. But he added: “Whether Mr Stuart [his colleague] actually obstructed the vision forwards is unlikely but his presence there must have been a distraction.” “There is no question of Emilie’s death being caused by dangerous driving, this is sadly an accident. “For some reason she had lost control of her bike. It has been suggested her flip-flops could have been the reason, or she panicked because she heard the sound of the bus or she might have looked back. I do not think the bike was in an upright position at the time of the accident.” A spokesman for the Oxford Bus Company said after the inquest: “Ever since the tragic accident our thoughts have been with Emilie’s parents and family. They continue to have our deepest sympathy. We cannot comment further at this stage as a court case involving the driver is still active and until that is finished our own inquiry into the incident and any possible disciplinary action can not be concluded.” Police said after the inquest that court proceedings against Mr Willis would now resume. He is charged with careless driving and breaching public service vehicle regulations. His colleague who was on the bus at the time, Henry Stuart, faces the latter charge. Emilie’s parents Martin and Judy Harris, both 52 and from Shawford, Hampshire, attended the inquest but made no comment afterwards. Guy -- May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting. http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk 85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound |
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Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving
Guy wrote:
This one has me minded to reach for the cluebat: I need a new dictionary - the definition mine gives for "dangerous" appears to be wrong. d. |
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Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving
Just zis Guy, you know? a écrit :
This one has me minded to reach for the cluebat: [...] So sad story... and as usual, deep suspicion concerning the cyclist behaviour. This *enforces* once again my determination to keep the middle of the lane in some very narrow streets. To be shouted or horned is better than be crushed... and you almost always have the next red signal to quietly explain to the driver why you did that (in France 1 meter lateral distance in town and 1,5 meter in country is mandatory when a motor vehicle overtakes a cycle). -- Marien |
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Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving
Marien LEBRETON wrote:
To be shouted or horned is better than be crushed... Agreed, but I'm not sure if it is strictly relevant to this case - there's nothing in the story to suggest she was riding in such a way as to make it hard for the bus driver to see her. It seems the bus driver just wasn't looking where he was going. It seems the first he knew of the cyclist was the crunch as she went under his wheels. In these circumstances, hanging, drawing and quartering would be lenient treatment for the bus driver. d. |
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Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving
Simon Bennett wrote:
It seems all the blame is on the cyclist for falling off. Eh? Oh, I think I didn't read the article closely enough at first. I might have to modify my previous comments. Slightly. Since a thud was heard, isn't it possible that the bus actually ran her down? I initially thought that was the implication of the coroner's comments, but now I'm not so sure... "I do not think the bike was in an upright position at the time of the accident." Well, yes... it would be pretty hard for a cyclist to stay upright while a bus drives over her. The only concrete factor against Emilie was that she was wearing flop-flops which 'may' have caused her to slip on the pedals. Dr Whittington seems to have taken this and run with it, along with some other vague assumptions about her being scared of buses (very odd for a cyclist in Oxford!). Vague assumptions seem to be par for the course in this type of incident - anything to avoid the possibility of having to blame the motorist. To be fair, he does seem to be suggesting that the bus /was/ the cause of her fall, whether it was from being physically knocked over or just through intimidation. d. |
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Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving
davek wrote:
Simon Bennett wrote: It seems all the blame is on the cyclist for falling off. Eh? Oh, I think I didn't read the article closely enough at first. I might have to modify my previous comments. Slightly. That's the way I read it -- she fell off and then the bus ran over her. Since a thud was heard, isn't it possible that the bus actually ran her down? I initially thought that was the implication of the coroner's comments, but now I'm not so sure... Cyclists don't make thudding sounds when they fall onto tarmac. "I do not think the bike was in an upright position at the time of the accident." Well, yes... it would be pretty hard for a cyclist to stay upright while a bus drives over her. PC Moffat could win awards for inexactitude. The number of times he uses /I think/ and /might/. They have no place in a court, surely? If there's doubt about something, shouldn't an expert be consulted? Nah, too costly. To be fair, he does seem to be suggesting that the bus /was/ the cause of her fall, whether it was from being physically knocked over or just through intimidation. "Dr Whittington said [...] For some reason she _had_ lost control of her bike." would suggest she came off before being run down. "It has been suggested her flip-flops could have been the reason, or she panicked because she heard the sound of the bus or she might have looked back." I don't think he's suggesting that the driver intimidated her. I think it's a case of victim blaming. The implication being that timid cyclists are a liablity to themselves. In my experience, people don't panic and fall off when they hear buses approaching; usually they pull over and stop if they're that worried. "I do not think the bike was in an upright position at the time of the accident." Again, lots of convenient 'thinking' going on. |
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Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 12:05:47 +0000 someone who may be "Just zis Guy,
you know?" wrote this:- http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspap...097961,00.html Emilie, who was wearing a crash helmet, Another helmet that failed to prevent the wearer being killed. was wearing flip-flops on the day of the incident in May 2004, which may have contributed to her falling off the bike, the inquest was told. If it wasn't sad it would be amusing. She undoubtedly fell off the bike because it was hit by the bus. Why do some find this difficult to understand, or are they seeking to blame the victim? -- David Hansen, Edinburgh I will *always* explain revoked encryption keys, unless RIP prevents me http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/00023--e.htm#54 |
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Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving
Simon Bennett wrote:
It seems all the blame is on the cyclist for falling off. But the first para says she was knocked off becsue the driver was distracted. Since a thud was heard, isn't it possible that the bus actually ran her down? Odd that the CCTV ends two seconds before impact, and odd that the driver had conveniently finshed chatting seconds before the incident. The only concrete factor against Emilie was that she was wearing flop-flops which 'may' have caused her to slip on the pedals. Dr Whittington seems to have taken this and run with it, along with some other vague assumptions about her being scared of buses (very odd for a cyclist in Oxford!). You need to understand the Law. To convict for Dangerous Driving you need to have evidence that the driving has (usually consistantly)fallen far below that expected. A moments inattention that causes death is not covered. I believe that 'Causing Death by Careless Driving' is a new offence proposed in the new Road Safety Bill. I'm afraid we all make errors. It is much more important to get the dangerous and aggressive drivers off the road BEFORE they kill anyone. I'm not saying such incidents shouldn't be punished, but the level of punishment for Dangerous Drivers needs to be far more severe. To get Dangerous Drivers off the road needs the Police to enforce the Law and not wait for accidents to happen. Jim Chisholm |
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Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving
David Hansen wrote:
She undoubtedly fell off the bike because it was hit by the bus. Why do some find this difficult to understand, or are they seeking to blame the victim? Because, if the court accepts that the bus ran down the cyclist, it would reflect badly on the driver. If the cyclist is believed to have fallen into the path of the bus, then it lessens the driver's responsibility, "There was nothing I could do. She came out of nowhere." etc, etc. |
#10
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Cyclict killed in Oxford, no question of dangerous driving
J. Chisholm wrote:
You need to understand the Law. To convict for Dangerous Driving you need to have evidence that the driving has (usually consistantly)fallen far below that expected. A moments inattention that causes death is not covered. I believe that 'Causing Death by Careless Driving' is a new offence proposed in the new Road Safety I'm not so concerned with the law. Though it does seem odd that a disproportionate amount of effort has been made to exonorate the driver. I'm more angry about the blatant victim-blaming in this case. |
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