Flashing lights cause accidents -- police experience

Hi,

Phil W Lee wrote:
(cheap hub dynamo wheels)
That is not the case here (I wish it was).

They should sell the same Shimano hub dynamos as they do here - and
those are really cheap. In comparison to (traditional) sidewall dynamos:
just about 1/3rd more expensive, but so much better to offset the price
difference.

Check with your local dealer or online shop, you should be able to get a
hub dynamo (with or without wheel) for the same price as a comparable
front hub. If not, order online in Europe or whatever ;-) But you should
really be able to get one.

It's a pity I sold my old FER2002 spoke dynamo, otherwise I could have
mailed it to you... These are not as good, but they keep up far better
than any modern sidewall dynamo did at my bikes.

My criteria for a suitable headlight include tool-less battery change
('cos you need to be able to do it in the dark), AA cells ('cos you
can get them anywhere), compatibility with NiMH ('cos they work out
cheaper), availability of alternative _good_ mounting brackets, a
properly shaped beam with a flat cutoff, and a decent light output
suitable for unlit country lanes at 30kph.

My Ixon IQ fulfils all those requirements, and can be charged or run
from a hub dynamo

That's sure possible, but I found battery lights too heavy (2x D cell),
too battery-hungry (less than 2hr front light) and too dim (not to
mention the unsuitable clamp) to bother with them. The bike I had then
was equipped with an older sidewall dynamo which does a very good job
and had a great halogen light (far better than much of the newer stuff).

I could do with a battery version of that for the bikes that are less
well equipped (the tourer has an infini apollo, which is great, but no
longer available [I wish I'd got a batch, when it was])

Sorry, I'm not the kind of guy to like batteries at all (even if I do
have a very good battery charger and have gotten some really good
rechargable's recently). I consider them inconvenient at best, and a
pain in the * generally. So, I wouldn't want none in a place where I
could go without. A bike certainly is a place I can live without them ;-)

I suspect that universal fitment of dynamo lights is a major reason
why dynamos are less expensive there - economies of scale.

As stated above, I simply cannot imagine why they should be much more
expensive at your place, since this is a mass-model produced for the
world market ;-) Even the cheapest clunkers (can't really call these
things bicycle) have them...

Modern LED based lights seem to be much better in respect of battery
life (I get 5-20 hours from a set of 4 AAs in my Ixon IQ, depending on
how much time I spend on high power).

Granted. ;-)

The need for battery lights to be quickly detachable to prevent theft
makes it slightly more difficult (although by no means impossible) to
provide a solid mounting.

Well, why should I need them to be detachable in the first place? simply
mount them solidly and require a "key" to change the batteries - but
then you couldn't steal them nor loose them and they wouldn't sell as
well? Anyway, as I said, too much hazzle for me...

Same here - nearly all the lights on sale are only legal as
"supplementary" lights.
The best that can be said of them is that they are better than
nothing.

Actually cyclists are usually not stopped by the police if they have
/any/ kind of light here. They get the blame if there's an accident, though.

Ciao..

On Feb 22, 12:54*pm, Phil W Lee phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk
wrote:
Nate Nagel considered Mon, 22 Feb 2010 06:52:19
-0500 the perfect time to write:





On 02/22/2010 05:29 AM, Bernhard Agthe wrote:
Hi,

Nate Nagel wrote:
Along the same lines, does anyone make "suitable" wheel reflectors of
any type? This is more of an academic question than one that has
actual bearing on my life, as they are not required where I live, but
if there were some available that actually stayed put, didn't rattle,
etc. I *might* consider trying them out.

Get tires with a reflective stripe on them. Best and most durable
solution...

I like the idea of reflective-sidewall tires, but I'm not aware of any
for sale for a price anywhere near the bargain-basement prices for
which one can purchase Paselas...

Don't know in your place, but I pay about 20Euro for a Continental
Contact tire with reflective sidewall. Recently I had to replace one
after about 10.000km cycling. The cheapo tires I used before (10 Euro)
didn't last for 2.000 km... So the "expensive" option is really cheaper
;-) For me..

Ciao

Here they're at least $40 - I just searched online and the absolute
cheapest online price for a Continental tire with reflective sidewall,
28 or 32x700c, non-cyclocross, is $35 plus shipping. *Double that if not
more if you buy in a bike store. *If I wait for a sale, I can get
belted, Kevlar-bead Paselas for $25 or less.

Plus, I am hesitant to try a Continental bike tire, I'm afraid they'll
be as bad as their car tires.

I like the conti gatorskin tyres, despite having a similar opinion to
yours of their car tyres.
I think reflective sidewalls are becoming more common - I did hear
that some countries have mandated them, so the manufacturers are
extending the range of tyres on which it is at least an option, and in
some cases, standard.

I think it's a good idea, but just having bought new tires last fall,
I'm still not buying any any time soon... can only spend so much
money on bike stuff

Maybe by the time these wear out the prices will have come down...

nate

On 22 Feb, 10:16, Bernhard Agthe wrote:
Hi,

thirty-six wrote:
The lights you need to match car headlights are reflectors. *Put white
reflective tape in three sections on your wheel rims and you get the
flashing lights while the headlights are upon them. * You also need a
big red (legal) or amber rear reflector. *I decided to hang the amber
trailer reflector from my saddle loops because the red official one is
good enough for closer proximity.

Carry a pair of Ortlieb bags. Their reflectors are extremely good.

But then you should also note that reflectors work only in a very narrow
range (only if the angle is right) and dim rapidly when seen from 45° or
so. For example, a truck-driver may not be able to see the reflector,
because the light from his headlights reflects mainly back into his
headlights and not 1.5m higher to where the driver's eyes are. Or, as
another example (which Andre Jute will like), on a narrow, winding road,
the car's headlights will only light the reflector, when the car is very
* close behind the cyclist.

Same with bus drivers. The only real protection here is a white or
light coloured top. Even professional drivers are not always aware of
the speed and movement a cyclist is capable of.


So, yes, while I do think that reflectors should be, I also consider
them a secondary item of lighting. Nothing is better than an active light..

;-)

On 22 Feb, 17:46, Phil W Lee phil(at)lee-family(dot)me(dot)uk wrote:
Bernhard Agthe considered Mon, 22 Feb 2010
11:10:50 +0100 the perfect time to write:



Hi,

Phil W Lee wrote:
Is Germany not a party to the European convention allowing the use of
equipment legal in one EU country to be used in another?

Don't really know, the German light restrictions are complicated enough ;-)

I know I can use StVZO approved lights here in the UK as a legal
alternative to BS approved ones, and understood that it was a
requirement of European legislation that members recognised each
other's standards in this way.
And I've never heard of tourists being advised to change lights when
they cross borders.

AFAIR you have to apply a patch of black tape in a specific location on
your headlights when crossing from right-hand-traffic to
left-hand-traffic, but that's all?

Only if they are asymmetric dip (i.e. left or right pattern for
different countries).
If they have a horizontal cutoff they are not "handed" so don't need
to be modified.
I don't know of any bicycle lights that would be affected by that.



Dynamos are great if your night use is enough to justify them, but the
same light units are available on battery lights in most cases (which
also allows you to have one good light to move between several bikes
as required, which is much better than having a crappy light on each).

Well, front wheels with hub dynamo are available for about the same
price as regular front wheels, so there is little if any cost
difference.

That is not the case here (I wish it was).

* * * * * The headlight comes with a cable by default (if built for
hub dynamo) and the cable plus the cheapest (almost) rear light are
quite cheap. Add some clear or black tape to fix the cable to the frame.
So, a working dynamo light costs about as much as a good battery light
and will never leave you stranded with empty batteries ;-)

My criteria for a suitable headlight include tool-less battery change
('cos you need to be able to do it in the dark), AA cells ('cos you
can get them anywhere), compatibility with NiMH ('cos they work out
cheaper), availability of alternative _good_ mounting brackets, a
properly shaped beam with a flat cutoff, and a decent light output
suitable for unlit country lanes at 30kph.

My Ixon IQ fulfils all those requirements, and can be charged or run
from a hub dynamo



My cheapo recommendation:
- second cheapest hub dynamo
- cheapest front light with sensor (either halogen or LED)
- BUMM Toplight flat plus (currently cheapest best rear light, has stand
light)

I could do with a battery version of that for the bikes that are less
well equipped (the tourer has an infini apollo, which is great, but no
longer available [I wish I'd got a batch, when it was])





If you have some extra money, go for the front light first, e.g. BUMM
Cyo and then upgrade your hub dynamo (e.g. SON). No need to upgrade the
rear light, as it's really a good one ;-) While a second- or
third-generation LED light is really better, the modern Halogen lights
are extremely cheap and give quite a lot of light, anyway.

That's the way we need to be moving.
Unfortunately, it's a tough fight when people have so much invested in
motor transport (both personally and as a society).
"I didn't see him" needs to be regarded as an admission of careless
driving - nobody has any business driving a motor vehicle onto any
stretch of road that they can't be sure is clear.

Agree.

I think flashers have a place in well streetlit areas, but preferably
as a secondary light.

In my own setup with a flashing element in the rear light, I took care
to have the flashing LED overpowered by the non-flashing ones. Partially
because of regulation. But mostly because the flashing one was a backup
for the case that my (then) sidewall dynamo failed halfway home (which
it did occasionally). As a result the rear light was well visible under
normal conditions, but just a little unsteady. It was hard to notice at
all, but I had the impression that drivers kept just a little further
off. But after switching to the current Bumm Toplight flat plus (sorry
for repeating myself), drivers keep even more distance (as I feel it),
because this one is so aggressively bright.

If I'd spend some extra effort, I'd go for non-flashing amber lights on
the side of the bike, e.g. in the ends of the handlebar.

Good lights cost proper money.

You can get them for considerably less than 100 Euro - and most bikes
sold at good shops come with lights pre-installed, at least here.

Not here
I suspect that universal fitment of dynamo lights is a major reason
why dynamos are less expensive there - economies of scale.



So does training.

Actually, training costs the time to learn about what you're supposed to
do and the discipline to act upon the information. The rest is just to
go riding ;-)

It's no surprise to find that people who cut costs in one area are
willing to do so in another.

But then I do wonder why people spend ridiculous amounts of money for
carnival plastic hats and then act like they were suicidal?

I suspect they are mislead by the marketing into believing that such a
hat provides some kind of invulnerability.

It's a con, it's only the ones with the platinum thread.




Far better to have good lights than many lights (although a backup is
good, particularly on battery systems).

That's why I dislike battery lights - when I had them, the batteries
emptied faster than I could drop in new ones (and were always empty when
I needed them) and when I see them on the street, they mostly point
anywhere, but not where they're supposed to...

Modern LED based lights seem to be much better in respect of battery
life (I get 5-20 hours from a set of 4 AAs in my Ixon IQ, depending on
how much time I spend on high power).
The need for battery lights to be quickly detachable to prevent theft
makes it slightly more difficult (although by no means impossible) to
provide a solid mounting.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Recently I found that
many bicycle stores started to sell battery lights with the price tag
right over a fine-print stating that these lights do not conform to the
STVZO (local technical vehicle code). These lights are not even remotely
suited for bike use (except for the fact that they bring a handlebar
clamp), but you won't know until after you bought them (if you care to
read the fine-print, anyway... Gnnnnn...

Same here - nearly all the lights on sale are only legal as
"supplementary" lights.
The best that can be said of them is that they are better than
nothing.



Ciao and safe cycling!

And to you

Before I read the rest of the thread I want to preface my reply with
"I was just going to post a quick one to ask folks to stop flashing
bright white headlights.".

I predicted resistance and claims of troll like behavior, and to tell
the whole truth on the matter I have chosen to flash the rear LED red
lights on my own bike.

I really, really, Really dislike front flashing headlights.

Please, each one, reevaluate this one.


berk

On Feb 25, 6:58*am, TBerk wrote:
Before I read the rest of the thread I want to preface my reply with
"I was just going to post a quick one to ask folks to stop flashing
bright white headlights.".

I predicted resistance and claims of troll like behavior,

I don't see why. RBT is widely acclaimed for the mutual goodwill and
Christian tolerance displayed here, the gentlemanly behaviour in
debate, and the high standards of truth in everyday affairs and of the
scientific verity so characteristic of the newsgroup. (Don't blame me.
I was paid to say all that.)

and to tell
the whole truth on the matter I have chosen to flash the rear LED red
lights on my own bike.

I really, really, Really dislike front flashing headlights.

Please, each one, reevaluate this one.

I have, and have decided to keep it. It is aimed downward to so that
the upper limit of the flash in well below the horizon of my Cyo, so
that in general in daylight the flash is a warning and at night it
disappears in Cyo's throw. It is furthermore aimed 12 degrees off the
centreline so that it should never catch any driver full in the eyes
unless he does something stupid, and then I'm already flashing him
with the Cyo by turning and tilting the bike.

What matters is not what lights you have (as long as you have the best
of course) but the consideration that went into their installation.

berk

****

The other evening, shooting out onto a road between two cars as I came
across the footbridge at speed, I was severely ****ed off when I
narrowly missed two unlit bicycles. I'd actually swung my bike light
across an arc of the road while still on the bridge to check there
were no *pedestrians* (we're only twenty miles from the jaywalking
capital of the world and pedestrians own the town and damn right too)
and never saw these two bloody bikes, both painted black, zero
reflectors, with black-clad riders. They might as well carry a sign
that says, PLEASE KILL ME ON THE ROAD. My LBS has a pile of unused,
bracketed reflectors in a tray near the door with a sign that says,
"Please take one. Fitting is free." The trendy kids tell him to take
them off their new bikes...

Rather too many lights than too few!

Andre Jute
"Cycling wisdom" is an oxymoron