|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
|
|||
|
|||
So you think you can do a decent trackstand?
I stumbled across this fellow in the New York Times archives and
tracked him down: http://www.showhistory.com/Kilpatric...edBicycle.html Here's a typical newspaper announcement: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...9C94 679ED7CF On an unrelated note, note the "brake" bridge with no hole that connects the seat stays in the circus picture. As far as I know, the equipment pre-dates rear caliper brakes, and the seat-stays in the picture are much too wide to trap a tire, the two usual explanations for such bridges. It may be worth looking into old pictures to see how early seat-stay and chain-stay bridges appeared. Cheers, Carl Fogel |
Ads |
#3
|
|||
|
|||
So you think you can do a decent trackstand?
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:23:06 -0700, wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:05:05 -0700, wrote: I stumbled across this fellow in the New York Times archives and tracked him down: http://www.showhistory.com/Kilpatric...edBicycle.html Here's a typical newspaper announcement: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...9C94 679ED7CF On an unrelated note, note the "brake" bridge with no hole that connects the seat stays in the circus picture. As far as I know, the equipment pre-dates rear caliper brakes, and the seat-stays in the picture are much too wide to trap a tire, the two usual explanations for such bridges. It may be worth looking into old pictures to see how early seat-stay and chain-stay bridges appeared. Cheers, Carl Fogel "Brake" bridges turn out to be commonplace on pre-caliper safeties: http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...eumatic12v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...eumatic13v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...eumatic15v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...eumatic21v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...neumatic2v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...neumatic3v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...neumatic5v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...neumatic9v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...eumatic17v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...eumatic26v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...ws/sherman.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...s/child10v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...s/child14v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...s/child15v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...ws/child5v.jpg These pictures make me wonder if the "brake" bridge was originally a fender bridge: http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...eumatic14v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...eumatic24v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...neumatic4v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...neumatic8v.jpg Regrettably, none of the pictures show if there's a corresponding bridge between the chain-stays, so now I have to look for those. Cheers, Carl Fogel Looking for bridges between chain-stays in old pictures is frustrating. Here, Major Taylor covers the area in question: http://i8.tinypic.com/4katr9f.jpg Here's the first example that I've found, a shaft-drive with a bridge connecting the chain-stays: http://www.nostalgic.net/arc/pre1920...e%20ladies.jpg A similar shaft-drive with the same kind of bridge: http://www.nostalgic.net/arc/pre1920...ft%20drive.jpg And another 1902 shaft-drive with chain-stay bridge: http://www.nostalgic.net/pictures/1630.htm I doubt that any of these shaft-drive bikes had their rear wheels move forward for removal. This old shaft drive had no chain-stay bridge, but certainly had an odd seat-stay bridge: http://www.nostalgic.net/arc/bicycle...0drive%204.jpg A normal chain-drive 1910's bike with both bridges: http://www.nostalgic.net/pictures/1483.htm I can't tell if the bridges are actually used to attach the fender, but the upper bridge is curved to fit the fender. Here's an 1890's girl's bike with chain-stay bridge beyond the fender: http://www.nostalgic.net/pictures/1725.htm An 1890's board-track racer with both bridges: http://www.nostalgic.net/pictures/1732.htm In contrast, an 1894 Pope model 36 with neither bridge: http://www.nostalgic.net/bicycle403.htm This 1897 wooden frame has some pathetic bridges that seem intended for the fenders: http://www.nostalgic.net/bicycle404.htm An 1899 G&J Rambler with both bridges: http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S...r+orig+1%2Ejpg http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S...r+orig+5%2Ejpg This weird 1900's Eagle has a seat-stay bridge: http://www.nostalgic.net/pictures/1757.htm I _think_ that it also has a chain-stay bridge--or maybe two of them, since it has four chain-stays: http://www.nostalgic.net/pictures/1758.htm One chain-stay bridge might be to keep the tire from somehow getting jammed (unlikely, since the old-fashioned axles come out backward), but _two_ chain-stay bridges seems like an effort (possibly misguided) to reinforce things. Cheers, Carl Fogel |
#4
|
|||
|
|||
So you think you can do a decent trackstand?
wrote in message ... I stumbled across this fellow in the New York Times archives and tracked him down: http://www.showhistory.com/Kilpatric...edBicycle.html Cheers, Carl Fogel Just one? http://www.pacificvillage.org/villag...0on%20bike.JPG -tom |
#5
|
|||
|
|||
So you think you can do a decent trackstand?
|
#6
|
|||
|
|||
So you think you can do a decent trackstand?
In article ,
"Tom Nakashima" wrote: wrote in message ... I stumbled across this fellow in the New York Times archives and tracked him down: http://www.showhistory.com/Kilpatric...edBicycle.html Just one? http://www.pacificvillage.org/villag...0on%20bike.JPG Appears to be forty spoke wheels. -- Michael Press |
#7
|
|||
|
|||
So you think you can do a decent trackstand?
|
#8
|
|||
|
|||
So you think you can do a decent trackstand?
On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 19:26:33 +0100, Jasper Janssen
wrote: On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:23:06 -0700, wrote: These pictures make me wonder if the "brake" bridge was originally a fender bridge: They've always been both in the utility cycles I knew. It's a lot harder to hang a fender from the two sides, so you pretty much need 'em for a fender. And since even coaster brake bikes would almost always have fenders, that provides a reason for the thing to stay, if not necessarily appear. In the chainstays there's usually a solidly attached plate that's the bottom fender attachment as well as the kickstand attachment point. Jasper Dear Jasper, So far, I've seen no kickstands in the early bikes, and lots of bridges on track bikes that would have no fenders. Many of these old bikes pre-dated coaster brakes. Cheers, Carl Fogel |
#9
|
|||
|
|||
So you think you can do a decent trackstand?
Jasper Janssen wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:05:05 -0700, wrote: As far as I know, the equipment pre-dates rear caliper brakes, and the seat-stays in the picture are much too wide to trap a tire, the two usual explanations for such bridges. It may be worth looking into old pictures to see how early seat-stay and chain-stay bridges appeared. Well, given the geometry, there's a *lot* of seatstay above the brake bridge, so it makes sense simply on the grounds of triangulating the frame tubes as much as possible. Jasper Only if you don't have a hub in there. One reason for the seatstay bridge on a bike with no caliper brakes and no fenders is to keep the rear end from getting deformed before it's built up. |
#10
|
|||
|
|||
So you think you can do a decent trackstand?
On Thu, 15 Nov 2007 00:16:12 -0700, wrote:
On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:23:06 -0700, wrote: On Wed, 14 Nov 2007 23:05:05 -0700, wrote: I stumbled across this fellow in the New York Times archives and tracked him down: http://www.showhistory.com/Kilpatric...edBicycle.html Here's a typical newspaper announcement: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...9C94 679ED7CF On an unrelated note, note the "brake" bridge with no hole that connects the seat stays in the circus picture. As far as I know, the equipment pre-dates rear caliper brakes, and the seat-stays in the picture are much too wide to trap a tire, the two usual explanations for such bridges. It may be worth looking into old pictures to see how early seat-stay and chain-stay bridges appeared. Cheers, Carl Fogel "Brake" bridges turn out to be commonplace on pre-caliper safeties: http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...eumatic12v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...eumatic13v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...eumatic15v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...eumatic21v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...neumatic2v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...neumatic3v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...neumatic5v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...neumatic9v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...eumatic17v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...eumatic26v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...ws/sherman.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...s/child10v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...s/child14v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...s/child15v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...ws/child5v.jpg These pictures make me wonder if the "brake" bridge was originally a fender bridge: http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...eumatic14v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...eumatic24v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...neumatic4v.jpg http://www.thewheelmen.org/sections/...neumatic8v.jpg Regrettably, none of the pictures show if there's a corresponding bridge between the chain-stays, so now I have to look for those. Cheers, Carl Fogel Looking for bridges between chain-stays in old pictures is frustrating. Here, Major Taylor covers the area in question: http://i8.tinypic.com/4katr9f.jpg Here's the first example that I've found, a shaft-drive with a bridge connecting the chain-stays: http://www.nostalgic.net/arc/pre1920...e%20ladies.jpg A similar shaft-drive with the same kind of bridge: http://www.nostalgic.net/arc/pre1920...ft%20drive.jpg And another 1902 shaft-drive with chain-stay bridge: http://www.nostalgic.net/pictures/1630.htm I doubt that any of these shaft-drive bikes had their rear wheels move forward for removal. This old shaft drive had no chain-stay bridge, but certainly had an odd seat-stay bridge: http://www.nostalgic.net/arc/bicycle...0drive%204.jpg A normal chain-drive 1910's bike with both bridges: http://www.nostalgic.net/pictures/1483.htm I can't tell if the bridges are actually used to attach the fender, but the upper bridge is curved to fit the fender. Here's an 1890's girl's bike with chain-stay bridge beyond the fender: http://www.nostalgic.net/pictures/1725.htm An 1890's board-track racer with both bridges: http://www.nostalgic.net/pictures/1732.htm In contrast, an 1894 Pope model 36 with neither bridge: http://www.nostalgic.net/bicycle403.htm This 1897 wooden frame has some pathetic bridges that seem intended for the fenders: http://www.nostalgic.net/bicycle404.htm An 1899 G&J Rambler with both bridges: http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S...r+orig+1%2Ejpg http://www.nostalgic.net/index.asp?S...r+orig+5%2Ejpg This weird 1900's Eagle has a seat-stay bridge: http://www.nostalgic.net/pictures/1757.htm I _think_ that it also has a chain-stay bridge--or maybe two of them, since it has four chain-stays: http://www.nostalgic.net/pictures/1758.htm One chain-stay bridge might be to keep the tire from somehow getting jammed (unlikely, since the old-fashioned axles come out backward), but _two_ chain-stay bridges seems like an effort (possibly misguided) to reinforce things. Cheers, Carl Fogel A nice 1908 Iver Johnson track bike with both bridges, showing how the rear wheel wouldn't be in any danger of moving forward and getting jammed where the chain-stays narrow: http://www.thecabe.com/arc/vintagero...20Track/i2.jpg http://www.thecabe.com/arc/vintagero...20Track/i7.jpg The arch under the top-tube suggests that the manufacturer may not have understood frame bracing. *** Here's an interesting view of one early design in which the "brake" bridge might have made sense as a brace: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/p..._id=40621&v=9S Note that the down tube is also double on the 1892 Firefly. *** Even artists were drawing the "brake" bridges before caliper brakes: http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/pics/...omers.jpg?v=BI *** The 1898 Dursley Pedersen sports three obvious bridges, at least two of them having no possible connection to any fender or brake: http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/orig...8_img/stor.jpg Another view of the non-chain-stay bridges: http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/orig...lindemann8.jpg And yes, there's a chain-stay bridge lurking down there, for bracing or for fender mounting: http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/orig..._2_img/dp2.jpg Again, the rear wheel was in no danger of being jammed too far forward and caught in the frame: http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/orig..._2_img/dp7.jpg That's a Sturmey-Archer hub in the picture above, not the bizarre Dursely Pedersen pear-shaped gear whose pear-shaped flanges gave wheel-builders headaches: http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/orig..._img/gear1.jpg http://www.dursley-pedersen.net/gear.html *** Here's another example of how the bracing of the "brake" bridge might have made sense on the frame of an 1895 no-rear-brake bicycle: http://www.eriding.net/media/photos/...ans_vb_567.jpg http://www.eriding.net/media/photos/...ans_vb_569.jpg Obviously, bracing is a good idea for those splayed seat-stay tubes. From the same site, a 1910 seat-stay bridge for bracing and fender and luggage rack mounting and a chain-stay bridge for bracing and fender mounting: http://www.eriding.net/media/photos/...ans_vb_557.jpg Again, bikes like these have no rear caliper brakes and their wheels remove to the rear, with no chance of jamming forward between the narrowing chain-tays. *** A 1908 racer with both bridges: http://www.museumsnett.no/ntm/no/sam.../kat78918a.jpg *** A rather unusual bridge: http://www.rogerco.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/anew/cycle5.jpg *** An 1890 Pope shaft drive with chain-stay bridge, either for bracing or mounting the fender: http://rustyspokes.com/menu11/100.JPG *** Here's an astonishing frame with _no_ bridges. Note that there's no seat-tube, just a wooden fender braced by seat-stays: http://i1.tinypic.com/73ka807.jpg It's an 1891 Elliott ladies hickory from the Metz Museum. Note the pedal-length adjustment slots, infinitely superior to our modern fixed length cranks, the motorcycle-style master-link, the dainty front fork, the naked headset resembling a high-wheeler, and the wooden spokes that eliminate the stress-relief debate. The dingus sticking down behind the crank that nearly touches the rear tire is probably a primitive rear spoon brake whose connecting mechanism is missing--there's a right hand brake lever, but no provision for a front spoon brake. Cheers, Carl Fogel |
Thread Tools | |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
A Trackstand Saved My Life! | Zoot Katz | General | 49 | November 15th 06 07:01 PM |
FS: Blackburn Mag Trackstand $30 | mike | Marketplace | 0 | October 9th 06 01:32 AM |
what's a decent pump to get? | Pete Derkowski | General | 10 | September 27th 06 10:58 PM |
Decent Hybrid - advice please | Saint | UK | 15 | June 23rd 04 12:23 AM |
Decent Price? | Doki | UK | 11 | March 6th 04 01:05 AM |