Pervert on a bicycle

On 8/14/2020 1:44 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/14/2020 10:45 AM, AMuzi wrote:

To the larger question, our society is wan to punish
anyone, the criminal class being viewed more as
misunderstood Robin Hoods or, as the Romanians describe
Vlad the Impaler, patriots improving society. Yes, we
still have a large imprisoned population as we have a lot
of criminals.

Our society is reluctant to punish anyone?? We lead the
world in incarceration rates!

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...tes-by-country


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rceration_rate


Or are you claiming that American society is so terrible
that even world record incarceration is not adequate? Sounds
one step away from T.H. White's "Everything not forbidden is
compulsory."


And more, we're a highly structured society in that crimes
are more often than not actually reported. This skews 'total
number of crimes' as compared to other places but that
number seems to be high per peopulation

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On 8/14/2020 3:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/14/2020 1:44 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/14/2020 10:45 AM, AMuzi wrote:

To the larger question, our society is wan to punish
anyone, the criminal class being viewed more as
misunderstood Robin Hoods or, as the Romanians describe
Vlad the Impaler, patriots improving society. Yes, we
still have a large imprisoned population as we have a lot
of criminals.

Our society is reluctant to punish anyone?? We lead the
world in incarceration rates!

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...tes-by-country



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rceration_rate


Or are you claiming that American society is so terrible
that even world record incarceration is not adequate? Sounds
one step away from T.H. White's "Everything not forbidden is
compulsory."


Go read some local news around the country for a few weeks and note the
horrible mayhem wreaked by early release felons.

So what do you suggest? if world-leading incarceration rates don't do
the trick, what percentage of Americans should be incarcerated?

Or do you have some other tactic in mind?

--
- Frank Krygowski

On Friday, August 14, 2020 at 8:11:09 PM UTC+1, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/14/2020 1:44 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/14/2020 10:45 AM, AMuzi wrote:

To the larger question, our society is wan to punish
anyone, the criminal class being viewed more as
misunderstood Robin Hoods or, as the Romanians describe
Vlad the Impaler, patriots improving society. Yes, we
still have a large imprisoned population as we have a lot
of criminals.

Our society is reluctant to punish anyone?? We lead the
world in incarceration rates!

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...tes-by-country


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rceration_rate


Or are you claiming that American society is so terrible
that even world record incarceration is not adequate? Sounds
one step away from T.H. White's "Everything not forbidden is
compulsory."


And more, we're a highly structured society in that crimes
are more often than not actually reported. This skews 'total
number of crimes' as compared to other places but that
number seems to be high per peopulation

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

If you subtract the number jailed for possession of drugs (users, not pushers), the numbers look much better.

Andre Jute
On the other hand, jailing drugs-users efficiently enters them into a cold turkey detox programme

On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 14:44:13 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/14/2020 10:45 AM, AMuzi wrote:

To the larger question, our society is wan to punish anyone, the
criminal class being viewed more as misunderstood Robin Hoods or, as the
Romanians describe Vlad the Impaler, patriots improving society. Yes, we
still have a large imprisoned population as we have a lot of criminals.

Our society is reluctant to punish anyone?? We lead the world in
incarceration rates!

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...tes-by-country

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rceration_rate

Or are you claiming that American society is so terrible that even world
record incarceration is not adequate? Sounds one step away from T.H.
White's "Everything not forbidden is compulsory."

Perhaps the missed point is that incarceration does not seem to make
much an impression on many, most, of those incarcerated. see
https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6266

The 401,288 state prisoners released in 2005 had 1,994,000 arrests
during the 9-year period, an average of 5 arrests per released
prisoner.

An estimated 68% of released prisoners were arrested within 3 years,
79% within 6 years, and 83% within 9 years.

Eighty-two percent of prisoners arrested during the 9-year period were
arrested within the first 3 years..

Forty-four percent of released prisoners were arrested during the
first year following release..

In short, putting people in Jail doesn't seem to rehabilitate them at
all.

--
Cheers,

John B.

On 8/14/2020 6:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 14:44:13 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/14/2020 10:45 AM, AMuzi wrote:

To the larger question, our society is wan to punish anyone, the
criminal class being viewed more as misunderstood Robin Hoods or, as the
Romanians describe Vlad the Impaler, patriots improving society. Yes, we
still have a large imprisoned population as we have a lot of criminals.

Our society is reluctant to punish anyone?? We lead the world in
incarceration rates!

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...tes-by-country

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rceration_rate

Or are you claiming that American society is so terrible that even world
record incarceration is not adequate? Sounds one step away from T.H.
White's "Everything not forbidden is compulsory."

Perhaps the missed point is that incarceration does not seem to make
much an impression on many, most, of those incarcerated. see
https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6266

The 401,288 state prisoners released in 2005 had 1,994,000 arrests
during the 9-year period, an average of 5 arrests per released
prisoner.

An estimated 68% of released prisoners were arrested within 3 years,
79% within 6 years, and 83% within 9 years.

Eighty-two percent of prisoners arrested during the 9-year period were
arrested within the first 3 years..

Forty-four percent of released prisoners were arrested during the
first year following release..

In short, putting people in Jail doesn't seem to rehabilitate them at
all.

Agreed. There are exceptions (and I know at least one) but the data does
make one question the entire strategy.

With this as with many other issues, I often wonder how other countries
handle things. Americans have a strong tendency to think we're the best
and smartest of all, and that we can't possibly learn from other
countries. But I disagree.


--
- Frank Krygowski

On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 16:32:38 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/14/2020 3:08 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/14/2020 1:44 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/14/2020 10:45 AM, AMuzi wrote:

To the larger question, our society is wan to punish
anyone, the criminal class being viewed more as
misunderstood Robin Hoods or, as the Romanians describe
Vlad the Impaler, patriots improving society. Yes, we
still have a large imprisoned population as we have a lot
of criminals.

Our society is reluctant to punish anyone?? We lead the
world in incarceration rates!

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...tes-by-country



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rceration_rate


Or are you claiming that American society is so terrible
that even world record incarceration is not adequate? Sounds
one step away from T.H. White's "Everything not forbidden is
compulsory."


Go read some local news around the country for a few weeks and note the
horrible mayhem wreaked by early release felons.

So what do you suggest? if world-leading incarceration rates don't do
the trick, what percentage of Americans should be incarcerated?

Or do you have some other tactic in mind?

Well, I suppose it is prejudiced but something like half of all
murders are committed by a group of people that make up only 12 - 14%
of the U.S. population :-O
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 19:01:40 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/14/2020 6:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 14:44:13 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/14/2020 10:45 AM, AMuzi wrote:

To the larger question, our society is wan to punish anyone, the
criminal class being viewed more as misunderstood Robin Hoods or, as the
Romanians describe Vlad the Impaler, patriots improving society. Yes, we
still have a large imprisoned population as we have a lot of criminals.

Our society is reluctant to punish anyone?? We lead the world in
incarceration rates!

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...tes-by-country

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rceration_rate

Or are you claiming that American society is so terrible that even world
record incarceration is not adequate? Sounds one step away from T.H.
White's "Everything not forbidden is compulsory."

Perhaps the missed point is that incarceration does not seem to make
much an impression on many, most, of those incarcerated. see
https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6266

The 401,288 state prisoners released in 2005 had 1,994,000 arrests
during the 9-year period, an average of 5 arrests per released
prisoner.

An estimated 68% of released prisoners were arrested within 3 years,
79% within 6 years, and 83% within 9 years.

Eighty-two percent of prisoners arrested during the 9-year period were
arrested within the first 3 years..

Forty-four percent of released prisoners were arrested during the
first year following release..

In short, putting people in Jail doesn't seem to rehabilitate them at
all.

Agreed. There are exceptions (and I know at least one) but the data does
make one question the entire strategy.

With this as with many other issues, I often wonder how other countries
handle things. Americans have a strong tendency to think we're the best
and smartest of all, and that we can't possibly learn from other
countries. But I disagree.

Well, Singapore and Malaysia execute dope dealers which does tend to
reduce the numbers engaged in the trade. I believe that Singapore has
the lowest user, per capita, in the world. Thailand tends to put them
in jail which doesn't seem to reduce the numbers by any appreciable
amount. Holland, I understand, simply legalized the product :-)

Perhaps that is the answer. Simply legalize dope. After all there was
a period, in the U.S., when alcoholic beverages were illegal. And...
if dope is legal it can be taxed.

And, some states have undertaken such projects. Nevada, for example,
has legalized prostitution, under certain conditions, and taxes the
trade. Most states have some form of legalized gambling, and so on.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On 8/14/2020 5:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 14:44:13 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/14/2020 10:45 AM, AMuzi wrote:

To the larger question, our society is wan to punish anyone, the
criminal class being viewed more as misunderstood Robin Hoods or, as the
Romanians describe Vlad the Impaler, patriots improving society. Yes, we
still have a large imprisoned population as we have a lot of criminals.

Our society is reluctant to punish anyone?? We lead the world in
incarceration rates!

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...tes-by-country

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rceration_rate

Or are you claiming that American society is so terrible that even world
record incarceration is not adequate? Sounds one step away from T.H.
White's "Everything not forbidden is compulsory."

Perhaps the missed point is that incarceration does not seem to make
much an impression on many, most, of those incarcerated. see
https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6266

The 401,288 state prisoners released in 2005 had 1,994,000 arrests
during the 9-year period, an average of 5 arrests per released
prisoner.

An estimated 68% of released prisoners were arrested within 3 years,
79% within 6 years, and 83% within 9 years.

Eighty-two percent of prisoners arrested during the 9-year period were
arrested within the first 3 years..

Forty-four percent of released prisoners were arrested during the
first year following release..

In short, putting people in Jail doesn't seem to rehabilitate them at
all.


Yes, the stats have indicated that for 30 years. But the
fact remains that their neighborhood is greatly improved in
their absence.


--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org/
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 20:21:45 -0500, AMuzi wrote:

On 8/14/2020 5:53 PM, John B. wrote:
On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 14:44:13 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote:

On 8/14/2020 10:45 AM, AMuzi wrote:

To the larger question, our society is wan to punish anyone, the
criminal class being viewed more as misunderstood Robin Hoods or, as the
Romanians describe Vlad the Impaler, patriots improving society. Yes, we
still have a large imprisoned population as we have a lot of criminals.

Our society is reluctant to punish anyone?? We lead the world in
incarceration rates!

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...tes-by-country

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rceration_rate

Or are you claiming that American society is so terrible that even world
record incarceration is not adequate? Sounds one step away from T.H.
White's "Everything not forbidden is compulsory."

Perhaps the missed point is that incarceration does not seem to make
much an impression on many, most, of those incarcerated. see
https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=6266

The 401,288 state prisoners released in 2005 had 1,994,000 arrests
during the 9-year period, an average of 5 arrests per released
prisoner.

An estimated 68% of released prisoners were arrested within 3 years,
79% within 6 years, and 83% within 9 years.

Eighty-two percent of prisoners arrested during the 9-year period were
arrested within the first 3 years..

Forty-four percent of released prisoners were arrested during the
first year following release..

In short, putting people in Jail doesn't seem to rehabilitate them at
all.


Yes, the stats have indicated that for 30 years. But the
fact remains that their neighborhood is greatly improved in
their absence.

Ah but, it is, or soon will be, cruel and unusual punishment. And
think of the costs born by the tax payer. California says it costs
$81,203 a year to keep a bloke in prison and Charles Manson, for
example, spent about 40 years in prison - cost of $3,249,120.

Perhaps a new method would be to tell a chap, stay honest and we'll
give you $50,000 at the end of every year.... think of the savings,
$30,000 a year that the taxpayer doesn't have to front up.

On the other hand, 1" rope is about $1.00 a foot.
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Friday, August 14, 2020 at 12:08:58 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 8/14/2020 1:44 PM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 8/14/2020 10:45 AM, AMuzi wrote:

To the larger question, our society is wan to punish
anyone, the criminal class being viewed more as
misunderstood Robin Hoods or, as the Romanians describe
Vlad the Impaler, patriots improving society. Yes, we
still have a large imprisoned population as we have a lot
of criminals.

Our society is reluctant to punish anyone?? We lead the
world in incarceration rates!

https://worldpopulationreview.com/co...tes-by-country


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...rceration_rate


Or are you claiming that American society is so terrible
that even world record incarceration is not adequate? Sounds
one step away from T.H. White's "Everything not forbidden is
compulsory."


Go read some local news around the country for a few weeks
and note the horrible mayhem wreaked by early release felons.

What ever could go wrong?

https://www.latimes.com/socal/daily-...state-hospital


Not to pick nits, but this was a release from a state mental hospital and not a penal facility. The outcome is no less savory, but constitutionally, holding crazy people for life is a whole other kettle of fish.

-- Jay Beattie.