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"Divisive Issue"
February 21, 2007
Nature Conservancy "Divisive Issue" (Winter 2006 Issue, p.6) To the Editor: Times change. We learn new things, and old ideas become obsolete. It's inevitable. For example, we can no longer safely assume that water from mountain streams is safe to drink. As Mark Gross stated so eloquently, exploiting wildlife and wildlife habitat, for pleasuring humans, is fast becoming obsolete (although dropping support for Nature Conservancy seems counter-productive to me). The rationalizations for such exploitation are transparently just that. Aldo Leopold is a good example of discarding obsolete notions (the killing of wolves) when they become clearly untenable. This not to say that denigration of the "exploiters" is okay. I can't really criticize 19th century Americans for not anticipating modern conservation biology. And I don't think that difference of opinion necessarily means we can't get along and work together. There will probably always be compromises "on the ground". But I don't see any reason to compromise on telling the truth! Yes, we are animals somewhat like other animals, but we are not a natural part of any ecosystem. We are a species that is native to part of Africa, and everywhere else a very late newcomer, i.e. an exotic species. Like all exotic species, we have arguably no right to access, much less exploit, local ecosystems, especially when those activities threaten native species (except that, when it's convenient, we claim that "might makes right"). There is no honest way in today's environment to rationalize hunting, fishing, and "collecting" of native species, or non-sustainable recreational activities like mountain biking. Michael J. Vandeman, Ph.D. http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande References: Ehrlich, Paul R. and Ehrlich, Anne H., Extinction: The Causes and Consequences of the Disappearances of Species. New York: Random House, 1981. Errington, Paul L., A Question of Values. Ames, Iowa: Iowa State University Press, 1987. Flannery, Tim, The Eternal Frontier -- An Ecological History of North America and Its Peoples. New York: Grove Press, 2001. Foreman, Dave, Confessions of an Eco-Warrior. New York: Harmony Books, 1991. Knight, Richard L. and Kevin J. Gutzwiller, eds. Wildlife and Recreationists. Covelo, California: Island Press, 1995. Louv, Richard, Last Child in the Woods -- Saving Our Children from Nature-Deficit Disorder. Chapel Hill, N.C.: Algonquin Books of Chapel Hill, 2005. Noss, Reed F. and Allen Y. Cooperrider, Saving Nature's Legacy: Protecting and Restoring Biodiversity. Island Press, Covelo, California, 1994. Stone, Christopher D., Should Trees Have Standing? Toward Legal Rights for Natural Objects. Los Altos, California: William Kaufmann, Inc., 1973. Vandeman, Michael J., http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande, especially http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/india3, http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/sc8, http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/scb4, and http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/scb7. Ward, Peter Douglas, The End of Evolution: On Mass Extinctions and the Preservation of Biodiversity. New York: Bantam Books, 1994. "The Wildlands Project", Wild Earth. Richmond, Vermont: The Cenozoic Society, 1994. Wilson, Edward O., The Future of Life. New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 2002. === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
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#2
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"Divisive Issue"
Move to Africa or kill yourself.
On Feb 21, 7:26 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote: But I don't c any reason to compromise on telling ̃ trũ! Yes, we r animals somewhat like õr animals, but we r ¬ a natural part ov any ecosystem. We r a species ̃at is native to part ov Africa, & everywhere else a very late newcomer, i.e. an exotic species. Like al exotic species, we hav arguably no ryt to access, much less exploit, local ecosystems, especially wen ̃ose activities ̃reaten native species (except ̃at, wen it's convenient, we claim ̃at "might makes ryt"). |
#3
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"Divisive Issue"
On Feb 21, 7:26 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
But I don't see any reason to compromise on telling the truth! Yes, we are animals somewhat like other animals, but we are not a natural part of any ecosystem. We are a species that is native to part of Africa, and everywhere else a very late newcomer, i.e. an exotic species. Like all exotic species, we have arguably no right to access, much less exploit, local ecosystems, especially when those activities threaten native species (except that, when it's convenient, we claim that "might makes right"). How would you define what is a "native" species in North America? Are you saying that only species that emerged from the proverbial primordial ooze in North America have any right to exist here? Dick Durbin |
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"Divisive Issue"
On Feb 26, 3:01 pm, "Olebiker" wrote:
........ Dick Durbin You are attempting rational discourse with an irrational being. PH |
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"Divisive Issue"
On 26 Feb 2007 12:01:59 -0800, "Olebiker" wrote:
On Feb 21, 7:26 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote: But I don't see any reason to compromise on telling the truth! Yes, we are animals somewhat like other animals, but we are not a natural part of any ecosystem. We are a species that is native to part of Africa, and everywhere else a very late newcomer, i.e. an exotic species. Like all exotic species, we have arguably no right to access, much less exploit, local ecosystems, especially when those activities threaten native species (except that, when it's convenient, we claim that "might makes right"). How would you define what is a "native" species in North America? Are you saying that only species that emerged from the proverbial primordial ooze in North America have any right to exist here? Dick Durbin See http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/scb4. I define it as one that has been around a million years. But no matter how you define it, humans in North America are an invasive, exotic species. === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
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"Divisive Issue"
On Feb 26, 11:40 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote:
Seehttp://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/scb4. I define it as one that has been around a million years. But no matter how you define it, humans in North America are an invasive, exotic species. So, why should we accept your definition? Animals move from one environment to another in search of more food and/or better shelter. Wild animals naturally migrate and are not considered invasive or exotic. Why would you consider the Paleo- Indians who crossed the Bering Strait around 40,000 years ago any different than other animals? |
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"Divisive Issue"
On 27 Feb 2007 04:42:18 -0800, "Olebiker" wrote:
On Feb 26, 11:40 pm, Mike Vandeman wrote: Seehttp://home.pacbell.net/mjvande/scb4. I define it as one that has been around a million years. But no matter how you define it, humans in North America are an invasive, exotic species. So, why should we accept your definition? Animals move from one environment to another in search of more food and/or better shelter. Wild animals naturally migrate and are not considered invasive or exotic. Yes, they are. You don't become a native species the day you arrive! It takes a long time for the natives to adapt to the newcomer. Biology texts are silent on this issue, especially on the issue of humans as an exotic invasive, because they don't want to tell the truth about humans. It's doubtful that ANY species other than bacteria and viruses can change fast enough to adapt to humans. The North American megafauna obviously couldn't. They went extinct. Why would you consider the Paleo- Indians who crossed the Bering Strait around 40,000 years ago any different than other animals? === I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) Please don't put a cell phone next to any part of your body that you are fond of! http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande |
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"Divisive Issue"
On Feb 27, 11:03 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
Yes, they are. You don't become a native species the day you arrive! It takes a long time for the natives to adapt to the newcomer. Biology texts are silent on this issue, especially on the issue of humans as an exotic invasive, because they don't want to tell the truth about humans. It's doubtful that ANY species other than bacteria and viruses can change fast enough to adapt to humans. The North American megafauna obviously couldn't. They went extinct. If you truly believe this, why haven't you moved back to Olduvai Gorge? Those paleo-indians must have been some terrific hunters to bring to extinction 135 species in maybe 400 years using only pointed sticks and clovis pointed spears. |
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"Divisive Issue"
On Feb 27, 1:09 pm, "Olebiker" wrote:
Those paleo-indians must have been some terrific hunters to bring to extinction 135 species in maybe 400 years using only pointed sticks and clovis pointed spears. There is some evidence for paleo-indian activity as much as 30,000 years ago. PH |
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"Divisive Issue"
On Feb 27, 11:03 am, Mike Vandeman wrote:
It's doubtful that ANY species other than bacteria and viruses can change fast enough to adapt to humans. Rats and cockroaches seem to have managed just fine. PH |
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