#61
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IQ-X vs Edelux II
On 11/4/19 11:23 am, Frank Krygowski wrote:
A super-wide beam would show the skunks, raccoons, loose dogs, turtles, frogs and whatever else might be interesting at the roadside. If the extra-wide parts of the beam had a higher cutoff than the main part, they would shine further into a sharp turn, which would sometimes be beneficial. And if a motorist were racing up to a stop sign to your right, it would do a bit more to gain his attention. You can't be too careful of loose dogs. Some people might see them fornicating and crash! -- JS |
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#62
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IQ-X vs Edelux II
On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 21:17:47 -0400, Frank Krygowski
wrote: On 4/10/2019 7:21 PM, John B. wrote: On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 12:39:58 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/10/2019 3:15 AM, John B. wrote: On Tue, 9 Apr 2019 21:16:18 -0700, sms wrote: On 4/8/2019 8:36 PM, John B. wrote: snip Easier than that one can buy a duel beam bicycle lights ranging from a bit over $100 to almost any price you want to pay - the Supernova M99 Pure - Dual Beam Bike Light goes for 265 BP - about US$ 346 and Amazon has the Nitecore BR35 1800 Lumen Dual Beam OLED Display Rechargeable Bicycle Headlight with Remote Switch, Mount - Includes Lumen Tactical Adapter for a mere $122.95. Dual, not duel. One key thing to look for in bicycle lights is the optics. Many bicycle lights lack proper optics because they're designed to meet StVZO standards rather than being designed to properly illuminate the road sufficiently far ahead, as well as things like street signs. You definitely want some side and upward spill but not so much that it blinds oncoming cyclists. It looks like the Nitecore did a very good job of using proper optics for each beam. And what is "sufficiently far ahead"? What I see is bicycles traveling at about 20 - 25 kph, on the average. That is 12 - 15 MPH with occasional chap whizzing by at 30 kph - 18 MPH. I am aware that many folks can ride faster than that but can they average a much higher for, say a 3 - 4 hour ride. But lets call it 20 mph which is 29 FPS... ( That just happens to be the length of my living room ) so how many living rooms do you need to see ahead of you? Two or three? More, lets say 5 seconds, that is 146 feet, or 48 yards which is 4.9 living rooms. Good Lord! People can run that distance in about 5 seconds and you on a 11 speed bicycle? As I recently mentioned: During the evening ride I took about two or three days ago, I noticed again that my B&M Eyc (StVZO) headlight powered by my bottle dynamo was brightly lighting up stop signs, etc. almost a quarter mile from me. (Google maps shows it as a bit over 0.2 miles.) That means my light rays traveled 0.4 miles from my headlight to the sign and back to my eye and were _very_ noticeable. For a motorist 0.2 miles away, those light rays would be far more noticeable. I've confirmed this with the help of friends and family. Please note that the Eyc headlight is tiny, much smaller than a Cyo. The Cyo does an even better job. Scharf has promulgated this myth that StVZO lights are invisible, or inadequate, or whatever. Maybe there are some bad ones, but certainly not the ones I own. As to John's question about seeing [the road] ahead of you: While it's probably more subjective, this light has been fine for me at 25 mph downhill. That's as fast as I ever ride at night. The concentration of light into a bright band just below the cutoff sends that light way down the road. Just as with your car's headlights. Well, a quarter of a mile is 1320 ft. and 20 miles per hour is 29 ft5/sec so your quarter mile lights illuminate a length of road that it will take you 3/4 of a minute to travel..... is this necessary to safely ride at night? Or might it be called over kill? I've called it luxurious. It's the nutty California politician that's been saying it's dangerously inadequate. Perhaps you live in the wrong state as I've read that in California cars are refusing to drive onto the highway until those with proper bicycle lights pass by. -- cheers, John B. |
#63
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IQ-X vs Edelux II
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#64
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IQ-X vs Edelux II
Am 10.04.2019 um 09:20 schrieb John B.:
I can't argue with your specialized needs, but how many folks are riding around in the boonies in the dark? As a year-round commuter in Europe, it's dark at 4PM in December. I have the choice of going home either the direct route on "farm roads" (non-farming cars forbidden, smooth surface, 9 foot wide, sharp corners) for which the StVZO light (Edelux 2) is perfect of take a small detour through the forest when I'm bored with the normal route. More realistically for taking the detour, in October the sun goes down at 6pm, and if we have a phone conference with California I might work till 8pm and ride home in pleasant weather. As a student, I tended to go home from University around Midnight, again with the choice of a route on road or off-road. |
#65
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IQ-X vs Edelux II
On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 5:54:43 PM UTC+1, wrote:
On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 5:39:29 PM UTC-7, Andre Jute wrote: By golly, I AM the boss psychologist. On April 7th I wrote: "** Now watch the wretched Krygowski screech "Danger! Danger!" merely for wanting to see obstructions at night. There is no, repeat no, reason a bicyclist shouldn't wish for lamps at least the equivalent of those on a European (not American) motorcar. To argue contrarily, as Kreepy Krygo does, is to concede in advance that cyclist have less claim to the road -- and to safety -- than motorists. *** And here the wretched Krygowski IS screeching "Danger! Danger!" This the same ******, the same Krygowski, who for each lamp Busch und Muller ever made claimed it was adequate for cyclists, and abused everyone who had their brains in gear and reported what their eyes could see, that the lamps were lethals. And here, below, and in other posts in this thread, the dumb cluck Krygowski does indeed concede that a cyclist doesn't have an innate right to cast the same light on the road as a motorist. Just as i predicted. Andre Jute Thanks Franki-boy: you put a few bucks in my pocket from bets with my poker school, fellow professionals, that I can predict what you will say. On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 3:48:24 PM UTC+1, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/8/2019 4:01 AM, sms wrote: On 4/7/2019 5:07 PM, Andre Jute wrote: snip In my opinion, the Cyo is the first barely* adequate bicycle lamp by any manufacturer with universal distribution. Leaving aside the matter of the top cutoff, the Cyo is still inferior the MR11 and MR16 lamps I built to Scharfie's plans (a public service to cyclists) lo! these many years ago. snip Remember that the Cyo was designed to be StVZO legal, it wasn't designed to be the most effective in terms of illumination and safety. The "Danger! Danger!" Safety Inflation contingent defines "most effective in terms of illumination and safety" to be something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7RU...ature=youtu.be Their standard is simple: As long as something brighter exists, nothing else is safe enough. "sms" AKA Scharf seems to fantasize that the German government enacted design requirements in an effort to kill cyclists. But instead, the StVZO requirements are intended to give cyclists adequate visibility and road illumination without blinding others. Of course, those with either "Danger! Danger!" paranoia or MFFY attitudes don't care about that. Also, notice the very obvious "hot spot" directly in front of that cyclist at about 0.33 in that video. That's what you get with headlights with kindergarten optics, which means pretty much anything not qualifying for StVZO. The hot spot tends to blind the cyclist using the light. Your eyes adjust for the intense brightness of that spot, thus are stopped down too far to see into the relatively darker areas beyond. Properly designed road vehicle optics are very similar for bicycles, cars, trucks or motorcycles. The portion of the beam pointing downward should be dimmer since it illuminates the road very close to the operator and has less distance to travel. Portions of the beam pointed further forward should gradually increase in brightness, and the portion pointing furthest down the road should be brightest. Above that should be a cutoff, sending enough light to be seen by, but not so much as to glare in others' eyes. The result of this is very uniform road illumination, easiest on the eyes and best for showing road obstacles.. And ANY headlight beam that adequately illuminates the road is EASILY visible to other road users. "I gotta blind people to be seen" is just stupid. The Cyo lacks a modulated mode, presumably because in many countries such a mode would not be legal. The main root cause for Cyo lacking a modulated mode is that only one nutty California politician thinks it needs one. -- - Frank Krygowski I tried using those little very bright mini-flashlights with a handlebar mount. Well that was certainly a bad idea. I finally got a headlight that was much dimmer but had a wide enough focus that I could see the ground for several bike lengths. This allowed me to actually see where I was going on the dark streets. I get that, Tom. I run BUMM Cyo lamps on all my bike, driven by hub dynamos.. They're the best lamps you can currently buy short of going for expensive boutique lamps. (That doesn't mean they're good enough, though I suspect such subtlety is over Krygowski's head.) But I have resigned myself to cluttering up my bike with two lamps front and rear, one steady lamp from BUMM, plus another lamp for flashing duties. I used a short li-ion rechargeable torch with multiple modes on a fish mouth mount to the front, and to the back a Cateye TL-1100 which is the strongest rear flasher I know of, visible in daylight, but I use both blinkies only in daylight as my steady lamps are good enough for visibility and a flashing light, besides perhaps blinding a motorist with unfortunate side effects, at night has the psychological effect of causing people to turn towards it, especially if they are tired and inobservant. My ideal blinkie would be a single high-power lamp showing red to one side and white to the other side, to be mounted on the seat tube facing downwards to the road, to light up the cyclist by reflection from the road, in other words not aimed at motorists at all. Andre Jute "If you have lamps on your bike at all, you're the enemy of cyclists because you confirm the misconception which keeps Joe Public from cycling: that cycling is a dangerous pastime." Now who said that? |
#67
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IQ-X vs Edelux II
On 4/11/2019 7:49 AM, Ralph Barone wrote:
AMuzi wrote: On 4/10/2019 11:50 AM, wrote: On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 3:37:20 PM UTC-7, James wrote: On 9/4/19 1:55 am, jbeattie wrote: It's not nutty at all. Cars have high beams which, of course, do not have cut-off. Hard beam cut off is a bad thing in undulating terrain with no ambient light sources, and reaching down to tilt up your StVZO light and tilt it down doesn't make a lot of sense. There are a lot of places I would like a high beam and a lot of places where high beams should be outlawed, just like for motorists on the road. Yes, there are times a high beam light would be handy, though not perhaps essential. I can drive my car at night on unlit roads without using high beam lights. I just drive slower. Sometimes I have to dip my high beam lights on approach to corners and such where there are highly reflective signs. I find the reflected light dazzles me. One of my headlight assemblies had yellowed out so much that I wanted to replace it. If I went to Ford I would have to buy both assemblies at once and it would cost $400. I bought the driver's side for $68 and it was made in China. What a pain in the ass!. First of all, there were a couple of metal clips for holding the wiring assembly into a particular position. These had to be broken to remove. Then the headlamp holding assembly turned out to be different and they didn't tell you until I noticed that there was an extra "nut" installed. Removing it I discovered I had to pull the headlight off of the wiring plug in order to remove the stock "nut" and then install the new one. Finally got that to work. Then there is a large cone shaped mechanism that makes the headlight a water-tight seal. That did not assemble correctly because it appears that the depth of the hook is slightly different. Finally got the damn thing figured out and test it and the headlight had been damaged on the r emoval-reinstallation process. I suppose they age harden the glass around the filament. I drove up to the auto parts store and got a new headlight. Got home and installed it and now the turn signal didn't work - I had tested it when I tested the headlight and it was fine. So BACK up to the auto parts store and I bought a couple of new turn signal lights. These things, like the headlights, come in dozens of different sizes. Since they are all 12 VDC you'd think that they would have standardized them decades ago. Back home, reassembled everything and since there were no more of those little harness clips I just placed the harness in about the correct position. All worked and it only took me 4 hours to do what a trained mechanic could have done in 30 minutes with Ford Parts for only 5 times what I paid. Which is better, Chinese car lamp lenses or Chinese carbon wheels? p.s. Everything in life is a choice. Mine are under $10, change in two minutes: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wag-h5006/overview/ Those old 7" sealed beam headlights were ****. Bosch halogens (with the asymmetrical beam pattern) blew those right out of the water. You are correct. Then again my minimum legal replacement is under $10 and not remarkably different from Tom's. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#68
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IQ-X vs Edelux II
On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 10:36:11 AM UTC-7, Sir Ridesalot wrote:
On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 12:40:03 PM UTC-4, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/10/2019 3:15 AM, John B. wrote: On Tue, 9 Apr 2019 21:16:18 -0700, sms wrote: On 4/8/2019 8:36 PM, John B. wrote: snip Easier than that one can buy a duel beam bicycle lights ranging from a bit over $100 to almost any price you want to pay - the Supernova M99 Pure - Dual Beam Bike Light goes for 265 BP - about US$ 346 and Amazon has the Nitecore BR35 1800 Lumen Dual Beam OLED Display Rechargeable Bicycle Headlight with Remote Switch, Mount - Includes Lumen Tactical Adapter for a mere $122.95. Dual, not duel. One key thing to look for in bicycle lights is the optics. Many bicycle lights lack proper optics because they're designed to meet StVZO standards rather than being designed to properly illuminate the road sufficiently far ahead, as well as things like street signs. You definitely want some side and upward spill but not so much that it blinds oncoming cyclists. It looks like the Nitecore did a very good job of using proper optics for each beam. And what is "sufficiently far ahead"? What I see is bicycles traveling at about 20 - 25 kph, on the average. That is 12 - 15 MPH with occasional chap whizzing by at 30 kph - 18 MPH. I am aware that many folks can ride faster than that but can they average a much higher for, say a 3 - 4 hour ride. But lets call it 20 mph which is 29 FPS... ( That just happens to be the length of my living room ) so how many living rooms do you need to see ahead of you? Two or three? More, lets say 5 seconds, that is 146 feet, or 48 yards which is 4.9 living rooms. Good Lord! People can run that distance in about 5 seconds and you on a 11 speed bicycle? As I recently mentioned: During the evening ride I took about two or three days ago, I noticed again that my B&M Eyc (StVZO) headlight powered by my bottle dynamo was brightly lighting up stop signs, etc. almost a quarter mile from me. (Google maps shows it as a bit over 0.2 miles.) That means my light rays traveled 0.4 miles from my headlight to the sign and back to my eye and were _very_ noticeable. For a motorist 0.2 miles away, those light rays would be far more noticeable. I've confirmed this with the help of friends and family. Please note that the Eyc headlight is tiny, much smaller than a Cyo. The Cyo does an even better job. Scharf has promulgated this myth that StVZO lights are invisible, or inadequate, or whatever. Maybe there are some bad ones, but certainly not the ones I own. As to John's question about seeing [the road] ahead of you: While it's probably more subjective, this light has been fine for me at 25 mph downhill. That's as fast as I ever ride at night. The concentration of light into a bright band just below the cutoff sends that light way down the road. Just as with your car's headlights. It's not rocket science. Motor vehicle manufacturers figured all this out many decades ago. The problem with bicycling is the plethora of tiny semi-amateur manufacturers, the lack of logical lighting standards, and the huge "Danger! Danger!" mentality of most bicyclists. -- - Frank Krygowski I remember old dynamo and/or battery lights that had a switch on top to go from high beam to low beam. Apparently such lights are now available with LEDs instead of incandescent bulbs. I don't know how bright they are. here's a link to one example. https://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Silver-...-/321150771101 Cheers I would assume that the LEDs would use less energy and hence be easier to pedal. I replaced my driver's side headlight assembly and installed it doesn't appear to need realignment. I'll have to see on a really dark country road that has a line down the middle of the road, but I was sort of surprised that although it was an absolute pain in the butt to install that the installation actually works the way it is designed to. |
#69
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IQ-X vs Edelux II
On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 11:35:13 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 4/10/2019 11:50 AM, wrote: On Monday, April 8, 2019 at 3:37:20 PM UTC-7, James wrote: On 9/4/19 1:55 am, jbeattie wrote: It's not nutty at all. Cars have high beams which, of course, do not have cut-off. Hard beam cut off is a bad thing in undulating terrain with no ambient light sources, and reaching down to tilt up your StVZO light and tilt it down doesn't make a lot of sense. There are a lot of places I would like a high beam and a lot of places where high beams should be outlawed, just like for motorists on the road. Yes, there are times a high beam light would be handy, though not perhaps essential. I can drive my car at night on unlit roads without using high beam lights. I just drive slower. Sometimes I have to dip my high beam lights on approach to corners and such where there are highly reflective signs. I find the reflected light dazzles me. One of my headlight assemblies had yellowed out so much that I wanted to replace it. If I went to Ford I would have to buy both assemblies at once and it would cost $400. I bought the driver's side for $68 and it was made in China. What a pain in the ass!. First of all, there were a couple of metal clips for holding the wiring assembly into a particular position. These had to be broken to remove. Then the headlamp holding assembly turned out to be different and they didn't tell you until I noticed that there was an extra "nut" installed. Removing it I discovered I had to pull the headlight off of the wiring plug in order to remove the stock "nut" and then install the new one. Finally got that to work. Then there is a large cone shaped mechanism that makes the headlight a water-tight seal. That did not assemble correctly because it appears that the depth of the hook is slightly different. Finally got the damn thing figured out and test it and the headlight had been damaged on the r emoval-reinstallation process. I suppose they age harden the glass around the filament. I drove up to the auto parts store and got a new headlight. Got home and installed it and now the turn signal didn't work - I had tested it when I tested the headlight and it was fine. So BACK up to the auto parts store and I bought a couple of new turn signal lights. These things, like the headlights, come in dozens of different sizes. Since they are all 12 VDC you'd think that they would have standardized them decades ago. Back home, reassembled everything and since there were no more of those little harness clips I just placed the harness in about the correct position. All worked and it only took me 4 hours to do what a trained mechanic could have done in 30 minutes with Ford Parts for only 5 times what I paid. Which is better, Chinese car lamp lenses or Chinese carbon wheels? p.s. Everything in life is a choice. Mine are under $10, change in two minutes: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/wag-h5006/overview/ -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 https://www.summitracing.com/parts/r...urus/year/2007 |
#70
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IQ-X vs Edelux II
On Wednesday, April 10, 2019 at 4:21:48 PM UTC-7, John B. wrote:
On Wed, 10 Apr 2019 12:39:58 -0400, Frank Krygowski wrote: On 4/10/2019 3:15 AM, John B. wrote: On Tue, 9 Apr 2019 21:16:18 -0700, sms wrote: On 4/8/2019 8:36 PM, John B. wrote: snip Easier than that one can buy a duel beam bicycle lights ranging from a bit over $100 to almost any price you want to pay - the Supernova M99 Pure - Dual Beam Bike Light goes for 265 BP - about US$ 346 and Amazon has the Nitecore BR35 1800 Lumen Dual Beam OLED Display Rechargeable Bicycle Headlight with Remote Switch, Mount - Includes Lumen Tactical Adapter for a mere $122.95. Dual, not duel. One key thing to look for in bicycle lights is the optics. Many bicycle lights lack proper optics because they're designed to meet StVZO standards rather than being designed to properly illuminate the road sufficiently far ahead, as well as things like street signs. You definitely want some side and upward spill but not so much that it blinds oncoming cyclists. It looks like the Nitecore did a very good job of using proper optics for each beam. And what is "sufficiently far ahead"? What I see is bicycles traveling at about 20 - 25 kph, on the average. That is 12 - 15 MPH with occasional chap whizzing by at 30 kph - 18 MPH. I am aware that many folks can ride faster than that but can they average a much higher for, say a 3 - 4 hour ride. But lets call it 20 mph which is 29 FPS... ( That just happens to be the length of my living room ) so how many living rooms do you need to see ahead of you? Two or three? More, lets say 5 seconds, that is 146 feet, or 48 yards which is 4.9 living rooms. Good Lord! People can run that distance in about 5 seconds and you on a 11 speed bicycle? As I recently mentioned: During the evening ride I took about two or three days ago, I noticed again that my B&M Eyc (StVZO) headlight powered by my bottle dynamo was brightly lighting up stop signs, etc. almost a quarter mile from me. (Google maps shows it as a bit over 0.2 miles.) That means my light rays traveled 0.4 miles from my headlight to the sign and back to my eye and were _very_ noticeable. For a motorist 0.2 miles away, those light rays would be far more noticeable. I've confirmed this with the help of friends and family. Please note that the Eyc headlight is tiny, much smaller than a Cyo. The Cyo does an even better job. Scharf has promulgated this myth that StVZO lights are invisible, or inadequate, or whatever. Maybe there are some bad ones, but certainly not the ones I own. As to John's question about seeing [the road] ahead of you: While it's probably more subjective, this light has been fine for me at 25 mph downhill. That's as fast as I ever ride at night. The concentration of light into a bright band just below the cutoff sends that light way down the road. Just as with your car's headlights. Well, a quarter of a mile is 1320 ft. and 20 miles per hour is 29 ft5/sec so your quarter mile lights illuminate a length of road that it will take you 3/4 of a minute to travel..... is this necessary to safely ride at night? Or might it be called over kill? -- cheers, John B. I don't see any necessity for any vision further ahead than a couple of seconds at the maximum speed you intend to ride. But this can vary. "Driver reaction time includes recognizing the light has changed, deciding to continue or brake, and if stopping engaging the brake (remove foot from accelerator and apply brake). Reaction times vary greatly with situation and from person to person between about 0.7 to 3 seconds (sec or s) or more. Some accident reconstruction specialists use 1.5 seconds." On the Tuesday ride there was a dark patch ahead of me and I could not make out what it was and so rode through it. It was the top layer of asphalt missing and a 2" deep pothole about 7' long. The hit at the far end sort of frightened me since I still don't have total confidence in my Chinese tubeless carbon rims. Though I am starting to relax in cross winds since the wheels only react like normal wheels. However THAT ignores that fact that even with shallow rims you have to be careful with speed in gusty winds. |
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