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Pedestrian mows down cyclist



 
 
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  #21  
Old March 16th 19, 08:09 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
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Posts: 446
Default Pedestrian mows down cyclist

On Saturday, March 16, 2019 at 3:33:37 PM UTC, wrote:
On Saturday, March 16, 2019 at 3:12:59 PM UTC, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 04:12:24 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, March 15, 2019 at 10:03:54 PM UTC, Peter Parry wrote:


There is a web site where the owner publishes the details of all the
cycling fatalities he can find in local and national papers to act as
a memorial to "cyclists down". He generally puts the cause of the
death, The last time I looked early last year over a third of cyclist
deaths occurred while they were on club rides, time trials, "training
rides or similar club or racing related activities.

Keith Peat passed away from terminal cancer in 2016 and he collected dead cyclists like people used to collect dead butterflies.


That was not the one I was thinking of.
https://beyondthekerb.org.uk/
seems to be the one or have similar functionality albeit that it is
more difficult to use than the one I remember.


Not seen that one.
That site seems to be a less prolific and less obsessive version of the late Mr Peat's.


Alan Share is another blogger that seems to have an unhealthy obsession with cycling. He has been around for a few years since Keith Peat's death.

http://deathofanightingale.com/blog/...iss-the-story/
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  #22  
Old March 16th 19, 11:17 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Jester
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Posts: 2,020
Default Pedestrian mows down cyclist

On Saturday, March 16, 2019 at 4:31:44 PM UTC, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 06:49:14 -0700 (PDT), Simon Jester
wrote:

s I have said many times it is not about what cyclists do but who they are.


No, its what _ some_ of them do where "some" is unfortunately a large
number. Cyclists are not a single community. There are at least two
major groups .

The first don't even consider themselves cyclists and wouldn't dream
of joining a club for it. They are the ever declining group of
utility cyclists. Largely invisible on roads they go shopping and
post letters. They push their bikes up hills, stop at junctions and
traffic lights and give pedestrians on crossings priority and a smile.
They go out in the same clothes they wear daily. At places like
school entrances they will slow down and may dismount and walk not
because they have to but because it is the right thing to do. Nobody
minds them in the least. Wholly un represented by cyclist pressure
groups they would like more cycle tracks and think 5 or 6 MPH is good
going. Holland is still full of them.


That is 99% of UK cyclists and the number of utility cyclists is increasing.

The second group are the combat cyclists, Alfa minus males in the
statutory uniform of lurid Lycra festooned with advertising slogans,
rainbow sunglasses and fingerless gloves. Nearly all are male and
between 25 and 45.


0.1% of UK cyclists.


They are the people who run things as "cyclists representatives" They
hate mention of dedicated cycle lanes and go on about the "right to
ride" as a quasi religious ideal. They think the very young and the
elderly should stop being wimps and take the lane as vehicular
cyclists 6ft in front of 40 tonnes of articulated lorry.


Cyclists do have a right to use the roads. If decent cycle facilities are provided cyclists will use them.


Obsessed with Strava times they go as fast as they can no matter how
inappropriate that speed might be. It doesn't matter as speed limits
don't apply to them.


And no motorist in history has ever broken the speed limit.
Why do you think speed li its were introduced?

They know it is always safer to steam through red lights than it is
to stop. Pedestrian crossings are invisible (as are any unfortunates
trying to cross using them). The warning signal is a scream of "get
out of my f*****g way cos I'm not f*****g stopping". You will rarely
see them in Holland.

There is a steep tree lined hill leading to a main road near here
which illustrates the two types quite well. The utility cyclists
wouldn't dream of cycling up it mainly because few could but also
because they would see it as antisocial to hold up everyone else if
they tried. They push their bikes up the footpath, stop for a bit of a
rest on the bench half way up and have a chat with others stopped at
the same place for the same reason.

The Lycristas ride up in the middle of the road making it impossible
for anyone to pass. They manage about 2MPH.

Guess which group people remember?


Keep your religious fantasies to yourself.


  #23  
Old March 17th 19, 12:15 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
RJH[_2_]
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Posts: 99
Default Pedestrian mows down cyclist

On 16/03/2019 14:36, TMS320 wrote:
On 16/03/2019 13:35, RJH wrote:
On 16/03/2019 09:29, TMS320 wrote:
On 16/03/2019 00:11, TMS320 wrote:
On 15/03/2019 22:03, Peter Parry wrote:

There is a web site where the owner publishes the details of
all the cycling fatalities he can find in local and national
papers to act as a memorial to "cyclists down".* He generally
puts the cause of the death,* The last time I looked early last
year over a third of cyclist deaths occurred while they were on
club rides, time trials, "training rides or similar club or
racing related activities.

In other words, a third occur at weekends. Which is 5/7ths of a
week.

Err... 2/7ths of the week. I am sure you get the drift. Besides, a
*large number of weekend rides "club rides" are purely social -
essentially rambling with bicycles. Your information is worthless.


The few 'club' people I know have regular weekday evening rides, and
*it's rare not to see solo/pair cyclists on the national speed limit
*countryside roads just south of Sheffield at any time.


The OP was concerned about people racing. Your club riders - what sort
of racing are they doing?


Apologies, no - I jumped on what I thought was a bit of thread drift and
refer to competitive or hard-core amateur cyclists training.

My idea of "national speed limit countryside roads" are generally single
tracks. The roads where it is sensibly possible to do NSL I consider to
be main roads.

Are we talking about the same thing?


No - NSL on half decent roads, but plenty of bends, dips/hills. So fast
moving traffic mixes with slow moving, highly vulnerable, traffic

TBH when I'm in the car I find them terrifying, difficult to pass safely,


When you are not in danger why is it terrifying for you?


I find the thought of injuring or killing somebody terrifying. Just do.

and they seem focussed on riding the racing line and two or three
abreast. The roads are also in pretty poor condition. As a cyclist,
pretty much the last thing I'd do out of choice.

Of course, I take the point that as a motorist I should only pass
when it's safe. It's simply that the risk escalates on roads that
weren't designed for this sort of mixed use.


Would it be easier to overtake if they were riding inline 3ft from the
kerb with 2 seconds gaps between them?


If it's 2 or 3 and depending on the width of the road, probably, yes.
Still a higher risk situation than I'd like.


--
Cheers, Rob
  #24  
Old March 17th 19, 05:30 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Peter Parry
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Posts: 1,128
Default Pedestrian mows down cyclist

On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 15:17:42 -0700 (PDT), Simon Jester
wrote:

On Saturday, March 16, 2019 at 4:31:44 PM UTC, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 06:49:14 -0700 (PDT), Simon Jester
wrote:

s I have said many times it is not about what cyclists do but who they are.


No, its what _ some_ of them do where "some" is unfortunately a large
number. Cyclists are not a single community. There are at least two
major groups .

The first don't even consider themselves cyclists and wouldn't dream
of joining a club for it. They are the ever declining group of
utility cyclists. Largely invisible on roads they go shopping and
post letters. They push their bikes up hills, stop at junctions and
traffic lights and give pedestrians on crossings priority and a smile.
They go out in the same clothes they wear daily. At places like
school entrances they will slow down and may dismount and walk not
because they have to but because it is the right thing to do. Nobody
minds them in the least. Wholly un represented by cyclist pressure
groups they would like more cycle tracks and think 5 or 6 MPH is good
going. Holland is still full of them.


That is 99% of UK cyclists and the number of utility cyclists is increasing.


It is more like 5% and decreasing. It is also predicted to fall
further as many utility cyclists are age above 50 and approaching an
age whether historically they start to give up with bikes.

The second group are the combat cyclists, Alfa minus males in the
statutory uniform of lurid Lycra festooned with advertising slogans,
rainbow sunglasses and fingerless gloves. Nearly all are male and
between 25 and 45.


0.1% of UK cyclists.


I'm afraid not, although the same influence of age will start to come
through as for both groups the number of younger riders joining either
group are falling.


They are the people who run things as "cyclists representatives" They
hate mention of dedicated cycle lanes and go on about the "right to
ride" as a quasi religious ideal. They think the very young and the
elderly should stop being wimps and take the lane as vehicular
cyclists 6ft in front of 40 tonnes of articulated lorry.


Cyclists do have a right to use the roads.


Cyclist are usually well versed in their "rights", unfortunately not
so on their responsibilities. The opposition of the major cyclists
organisations to segregated facilities is well documented. Similarly
the promotion of the idiotic "vehicular cycling" by Franklin and the
CTC has done more to diminish cycling than anything else.

If decent cycle facilities are provided cyclists will use them.


But the cycling groups will argue against them (as they have since the
very first one was made). They support the Hierarchy of Provision
aimed at improving the lot for the vehicular cyclist and ignore the
utility cyclist completely.

  #25  
Old March 17th 19, 11:49 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Jester
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Posts: 2,020
Default Pedestrian mows down cyclist

On Sunday, March 17, 2019 at 4:30:18 PM UTC, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 15:17:42 -0700 (PDT), Simon Jester
wrote:

On Saturday, March 16, 2019 at 4:31:44 PM UTC, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 06:49:14 -0700 (PDT), Simon Jester
wrote:

s I have said many times it is not about what cyclists do but who they are.

No, its what _ some_ of them do where "some" is unfortunately a large
number. Cyclists are not a single community. There are at least two
major groups .

The first don't even consider themselves cyclists and wouldn't dream
of joining a club for it. They are the ever declining group of
utility cyclists. Largely invisible on roads they go shopping and
post letters. They push their bikes up hills, stop at junctions and
traffic lights and give pedestrians on crossings priority and a smile.
They go out in the same clothes they wear daily. At places like
school entrances they will slow down and may dismount and walk not
because they have to but because it is the right thing to do. Nobody
minds them in the least. Wholly un represented by cyclist pressure
groups they would like more cycle tracks and think 5 or 6 MPH is good
going. Holland is still full of them.


That is 99% of UK cyclists and the number of utility cyclists is increasing.


It is more like 5% and decreasing. It is also predicted to fall
further as many utility cyclists are age above 50 and approaching an
age whether historically they start to give up with bikes.


As you pointed out the vast majority of UK cyclists just get on with the job and have no interest in cycling issues. The number of such cyclists is increasing.


The second group are the combat cyclists, Alfa minus males in the
statutory uniform of lurid Lycra festooned with advertising slogans,
rainbow sunglasses and fingerless gloves. Nearly all are male and
between 25 and 45.


0.1% of UK cyclists.


I'm afraid not, although the same influence of age will start to come
through as for both groups the number of younger riders joining either
group are falling.


The Lycra Brigade are more visible and more vocal but, as you point out, are a minority


They are the people who run things as "cyclists representatives" They
hate mention of dedicated cycle lanes and go on about the "right to
ride" as a quasi religious ideal. They think the very young and the
elderly should stop being wimps and take the lane as vehicular
cyclists 6ft in front of 40 tonnes of articulated lorry.


Cyclists do have a right to use the roads.


Cyclist are usually well versed in their "rights", unfortunately not
so on their responsibilities. The opposition of the major cyclists
organisations to segregated facilities is well documented. Similarly
the promotion of the idiotic "vehicular cycling" by Franklin and the
CTC has done more to diminish cycling than anything else.


Just like motorists who tell u s they have a RIGHT to drive 10%+2mph above the speed limit.
I have never met a cyclist who attempted to murder me for walking in the road.


If decent cycle facilities are provided cyclists will use them.


But the cycling groups will argue against them (as they have since the
very first one was made). They support the Hierarchy of Provision
aimed at improving the lot for the vehicular cyclist and ignore the
utility cyclist completely.


Precisely.
Pedestrians, Equestrians and Cyclists have a RIGHT to use roads. Motor vehicle operators are sponging freeloaders who are permitted to use roads under licence.

  #26  
Old March 18th 19, 09:25 AM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
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Posts: 2,468
Default Pedestrian mows down cyclist

On 16/03/2019 16:31, Peter Parry wrote:
On Sat, 16 Mar 2019 06:49:14 -0700 (PDT), Simon Jester
wrote:

s I have said many times it is not about what cyclists do but who
they are.


No, its what _ some_ of them do where "some" is unfortunately a
large number. Cyclists are not a single community. There are at
least two major groups .

The first don't even consider themselves cyclists and wouldn't dream
of joining a club for it. They are the ever declining group of
utility cyclists.


Then such cyclists don't get £5m of cycle specific TP insurance. If they
don't go far afield they don't get experience of riding on roads without
pavements so they are the ones most likely to ride on them. Wouldn't you
think?

The second group are the combat cyclists, Alfa minus males in the
statutory uniform of lurid Lycra festooned with advertising slogans,
rainbow sunglasses and fingerless gloves. Nearly all are male and
between 25 and 45.


That's ok then. By simple observation, the marge larger group that rides
for pleasure do not festoon themselves with advertising slogans.

  #27  
Old March 18th 19, 09:42 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
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Posts: 2,468
Default Pedestrian mows down cyclist

On 17/03/2019 11:15, RJH wrote:
On 16/03/2019 14:36, TMS320 wrote:
On 16/03/2019 13:35, RJH wrote:
On 16/03/2019 09:29, TMS320 wrote:
On 16/03/2019 00:11, TMS320 wrote:
On 15/03/2019 22:03, Peter Parry wrote:

There is a web site where the owner publishes the details of
all the cycling fatalities he can find in local and national
papers to act as a memorial to "cyclists down".* He generally
puts the cause of the death,* The last time I looked early last
year over a third of cyclist deaths occurred while they were on
club rides, time trials, "training rides or similar club or
racing related activities.

In other words, a third occur at weekends. Which is 5/7ths of a
week.

Err... 2/7ths of the week. I am sure you get the drift. Besides, a
*large number of weekend rides "club rides" are purely social -
essentially rambling with bicycles. Your information is worthless.

The few 'club' people I know have regular weekday evening rides, and
*it's rare not to see solo/pair cyclists on the national speed limit
*countryside roads just south of Sheffield at any time.


The OP was concerned about people racing. Your club riders - what sort
of racing are they doing?

Apologies, no - I jumped on what I thought was a bit of thread drift and
refer to competitive or hard-core amateur cyclists training.


Yes, that would be transport riding. Some try to argue that a 30+ mile
bicycle trip is not transport but they cannot explain why it is
different to driving the same route.

My idea of "national speed limit countryside roads" are generally
single tracks. The roads where it is sensibly possible to do NSL I
consider to be main roads.

Are we talking about the same thing?

No - NSL on half decent roads, but plenty of bends, dips/hills. So fast
moving traffic mixes with slow moving, highly vulnerable, traffic


What alternative do bicycle users have? Even where there is a good
network of country lanes it often impossible to avoid a busy road for a
mile or two.

It is also noticeable how minor roads are becoming busier due to sat
navs taking people off signposted routes because they have found one
that is 3 inches shorter. On top of that, people are buying much bigger
cars than they used to so reduced overtaking opportunities are partly
self inflicted.

TBH when I'm in the car I find them terrifying, difficult to pass
safely,


When you are not in danger why is it terrifying for you?

I find the thought of injuring or killing somebody terrifying. Just do.


Nice to hear.

and they seem focussed on riding the racing line and two or three
abreast. The roads are also in pretty poor condition. As a cyclist,
pretty much the last thing I'd do out of choice.

Of course, I take the point that as a motorist I should only pass
when it's safe. It's simply that the risk escalates on roads that
weren't designed for this sort of mixed use.


Would it be easier to overtake if they were riding inline 3ft from the
kerb with 2 seconds gaps between them?


If it's 2 or 3 and depending on the width of the road, probably, yes.
Still a higher risk situation than I'd like.


Well, they could be helping you not to kill them.
 




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