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#92
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The death of rim brakes?
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 10:53:33 +1100, James
wrote: On 14/3/19 9:36 am, Joerg wrote: On 2019-03-12 18:33, James wrote: On 13/3/19 2:07 am, Joerg wrote: On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote: I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim brakes a dead deal. Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that still have drum brakes in front? On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in and after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the rim brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally hear aluminum being eaten. If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I won't buy. A bit of wet mud isn't the end of rim brakes.* Hose them off and they'll be fine. We have lot of bits of wet mud. The rims of my first MTB looked horribly grooved after the first 1000mi. Trails here are really muddy in winter. The other advantage of disc brakes is that they can be cooled off on long descents with a quick spritz from the bottle. Phssst ... HISSSS ... and on you go. No need for a lenghty cool-off period. I don't know how my rims survived, MTB riding the wet and muddy forests tracks in Winter. Furthermore, how did I survive inferior rim brakes without the chance to spritz from my bottle and "Phssst ... HISSSS ..."... I shall commence counting my lucky stars. Move to California and you will be able to ride with the Mountain Lions :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#93
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The death of rim brakes?
On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 8:48:02 PM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 10:53:33 +1100, James wrote: On 14/3/19 9:36 am, Joerg wrote: On 2019-03-12 18:33, James wrote: On 13/3/19 2:07 am, Joerg wrote: On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote: I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim brakes a dead deal. Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that still have drum brakes in front? On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in and after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the rim brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally hear aluminum being eaten. If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I won't buy. A bit of wet mud isn't the end of rim brakes.Â* Hose them off and they'll be fine. We have lot of bits of wet mud. The rims of my first MTB looked horribly grooved after the first 1000mi. Trails here are really muddy in winter.. The other advantage of disc brakes is that they can be cooled off on long descents with a quick spritz from the bottle. Phssst ... HISSSS .... and on you go. No need for a lenghty cool-off period. I don't know how my rims survived, MTB riding the wet and muddy forests tracks in Winter. Furthermore, how did I survive inferior rim brakes without the chance to spritz from my bottle and "Phssst ... HISSSS ..."... I shall commence counting my lucky stars. Move to California and you will be able to ride with the Mountain Lions :-) -- Cheers, John B. In Northern Ontario Canada during berry season it's black bears you need to keep an eye open for and on when you see them. Cheers |
#94
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The death of rim brakes?
On 3/13/2019 7:46 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 16:40:16 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2019-03-13 16:09, Mark J. wrote: On 3/13/2019 3:36 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-03-12 18:33, James wrote: On 13/3/19 2:07 am, Joerg wrote: On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote: I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim brakes a dead deal. Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that still have drum brakes in front? On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in and after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the rim brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally hear aluminum being eaten. If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I won't buy. A bit of wet mud isn't the end of rim brakes. Hose them off and they'll be fine. We have lot of bits of wet mud. The rims of my first MTB looked horribly grooved after the first 1000mi. Trails here are really muddy in winter. The other advantage of disc brakes is that they can be cooled off on long descents with a quick spritz from the bottle. Phssst ... HISSSS ... and on you go. No need for a lenghty cool-off period. What does that do to the temper of the metal? E.g. will it harden/embrittle? Not sure if this is a problem, but worth checking. I doubt it does much because I do not ride them until they glow white. The only side effect I noticed was that they are noisy the first mile afterwards. No squeal but more like HOOOO. Loud. So in areas with lots of cattle this isn't a good idea. You must be using shoddy brakes. F1 disc brakes run red hot https://www.pinterest.es/pin/35114072064401057/ And not only that but F1 brakes use carbon fiber discs and are so much lighter in weight then old fashioned metal discs. As for glowing white hot? That would be in the 2,300 - 2,700 degree (F) range and, I might add that steel at 700 degrees (F) has lost about half of it's strength. At 2,000 degrees it must be similar to wet paper. Nowhere near those temps. Something around 100C will give steam. Bicycle discs are stainless at any rate. The pad material will debond from the back plate well before any temperature effect on the disc. -- Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org/ Open every day since 1 April, 1971 |
#95
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The death of rim brakes?
On Tuesday, March 12, 2019 at 8:46:50 PM UTC-5, Frank Krygowski wrote:
I guess we could do a poll. How many here have had a road bike rim fail by having the brakes eat through it? - Frank Krygowski I have had this problem on my folding commuter bikes, particularly the one that I use in the winter. It was always the rear wheel. My hypothesis was that the front wheel was lofting abrasive dust and slush which somehow landed on the rear wheel's braking surface. I solved the problem by converting the bike to a "roller" brake. I haven't replaced a rim on that bike in several thousand miles now. Before the conversion, I'd get about 2,000 miles on a rim before it would begin to "thump" under braking. NB: I'm a heavy user of the front brake. There's a different sort of problem on my "good weather" folder, which I can't fit with a roller brake. After about 6,500 miles, I have just worn out my third rim. The first two had brake track wear that seemed to propagate into the center of the rim just under the rim strip. After I installed the third identical rim (Kinetix Comp 406-14), I intentionally used the rear brake *less*. After about 2,000 miles... thump, thump, thump. I took the tire off and found the rim split, but *without* the brake track wear. I've come to the conclusion that the rim(s) were too narrow for the relatively wide (406-47) tires I've been running. I'm about to re-build the wheel with a wider (406-22) rim similar to the ones that have survived for years on my winter bike. Steve |
#96
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The death of rim brakes?
On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 20:13:26 -0500, AMuzi wrote:
On 3/13/2019 7:46 PM, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 16:40:16 -0700, Joerg wrote: On 2019-03-13 16:09, Mark J. wrote: On 3/13/2019 3:36 PM, Joerg wrote: On 2019-03-12 18:33, James wrote: On 13/3/19 2:07 am, Joerg wrote: On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote: I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim brakes a dead deal. Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that still have drum brakes in front? On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in and after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the rim brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally hear aluminum being eaten. If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I won't buy. A bit of wet mud isn't the end of rim brakes. Hose them off and they'll be fine. We have lot of bits of wet mud. The rims of my first MTB looked horribly grooved after the first 1000mi. Trails here are really muddy in winter. The other advantage of disc brakes is that they can be cooled off on long descents with a quick spritz from the bottle. Phssst ... HISSSS ... and on you go. No need for a lenghty cool-off period. What does that do to the temper of the metal? E.g. will it harden/embrittle? Not sure if this is a problem, but worth checking. I doubt it does much because I do not ride them until they glow white. The only side effect I noticed was that they are noisy the first mile afterwards. No squeal but more like HOOOO. Loud. So in areas with lots of cattle this isn't a good idea. You must be using shoddy brakes. F1 disc brakes run red hot https://www.pinterest.es/pin/35114072064401057/ And not only that but F1 brakes use carbon fiber discs and are so much lighter in weight then old fashioned metal discs. As for glowing white hot? That would be in the 2,300 - 2,700 degree (F) range and, I might add that steel at 700 degrees (F) has lost about half of it's strength. At 2,000 degrees it must be similar to wet paper. Nowhere near those temps. Something around 100C will give steam. Bicycle discs are stainless at any rate. The pad material will debond from the back plate well before any temperature effect on the disc. I was responding to the statement that, "I do not ride them until they glow white" (above) :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#97
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The death of rim brakes?
rOn Wed, 13 Mar 2019 18:03:44 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote: On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 8:48:02 PM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote: On Thu, 14 Mar 2019 10:53:33 +1100, James wrote: On 14/3/19 9:36 am, Joerg wrote: On 2019-03-12 18:33, James wrote: On 13/3/19 2:07 am, Joerg wrote: On 2019-03-10 06:34, wrote: I keep reading see all the bikes coming out and basically all disc brakes. I cannot believe rim brakes are going to be gone but maybe I am just kidding myself. I frankly hate the disc brake look and certainly for a long time parts will be around but are these rim brakes a dead deal. Disc brakes are simply better. Take a look around around automotive and motorcycles. How many new cars and motorcycles are there that still have drum brakes in front? On Sunday I experienced the umpteenth reminder why rim brakes are inferior. We had to cross some unpaved area on the road bikes and it had rained. Muddy. Afterwards a descent on pavement, I reached in and after the usual and expected one-second of zero brake action the rim brakes came on. There was an awful grinding noise, you could literally hear aluminum being eaten. If I ever need a new road bike it will have disc brakes or I won't buy. A bit of wet mud isn't the end of rim brakes.* Hose them off and they'll be fine. We have lot of bits of wet mud. The rims of my first MTB looked horribly grooved after the first 1000mi. Trails here are really muddy in winter. The other advantage of disc brakes is that they can be cooled off on long descents with a quick spritz from the bottle. Phssst ... HISSSS ... and on you go. No need for a lenghty cool-off period. I don't know how my rims survived, MTB riding the wet and muddy forests tracks in Winter. Furthermore, how did I survive inferior rim brakes without the chance to spritz from my bottle and "Phssst ... HISSSS ..."... I shall commence counting my lucky stars. Move to California and you will be able to ride with the Mountain Lions :-) -- Cheers, John B. In Northern Ontario Canada during berry season it's black bears you need to keep an eye open for and on when you see them. Cheers Stay out of the woods :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#98
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The death of rim brakes?
On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 11:45:06 PM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
rOn Wed, 13 Mar 2019 18:03:44 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 8:48:02 PM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote: Snipped Move to California and you will be able to ride with the Mountain Lions :-) -- Cheers, John B. In Northern Ontario Canada during berry season it's black bears you need to keep an eye open for and on when you see them. Cheers Stay out of the woods :-) -- Cheers, John B. One time I saw a lot of black bears t my right as they were eating berries that had grown in an area that'd been burnt over a number of years ago. There was no forest there. It's kind of neat to be able to see the bears from a nice safe distance. VBEG LOL We have Bobcats and Lynxes up there and I understand that cougars are becoming more common too. Cheers |
#99
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The death of rim brakes?
On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 21:18:57 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot
wrote: On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 11:45:06 PM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote: rOn Wed, 13 Mar 2019 18:03:44 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 8:48:02 PM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote: Snipped Move to California and you will be able to ride with the Mountain Lions :-) -- Cheers, John B. In Northern Ontario Canada during berry season it's black bears you need to keep an eye open for and on when you see them. Cheers Stay out of the woods :-) -- Cheers, John B. One time I saw a lot of black bears t my right as they were eating berries that had grown in an area that'd been burnt over a number of years ago. There was no forest there. It's kind of neat to be able to see the bears from a nice safe distance. VBEG LOL We have Bobcats and Lynxes up there and I understand that cougars are becoming more common too. Cheers I read something to that effect the other day. Some sort of environmentalist site I think. I wonder what the tree huggers do when a cougar eats their pet dog :-) I'm not against environmental issues at all, just those who propose some "solution" without any thought at all. People that protest fox hunting while eating a McDonalds hamburger, for instance :-) -- Cheers, John B. |
#100
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The death of rim brakes?
On Thursday, March 14, 2019 at 12:54:41 AM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote:
On Wed, 13 Mar 2019 21:18:57 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 11:45:06 PM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote: rOn Wed, 13 Mar 2019 18:03:44 -0700 (PDT), Sir Ridesalot wrote: On Wednesday, March 13, 2019 at 8:48:02 PM UTC-4, John B. Slocomb wrote: Snipped Move to California and you will be able to ride with the Mountain Lions :-) -- Cheers, John B. In Northern Ontario Canada during berry season it's black bears you need to keep an eye open for and on when you see them. Cheers Stay out of the woods :-) -- Cheers, John B. One time I saw a lot of black bears t my right as they were eating berries that had grown in an area that'd been burnt over a number of years ago. There was no forest there. It's kind of neat to be able to see the bears from a nice safe distance. VBEG LOL We have Bobcats and Lynxes up there and I understand that cougars are becoming more common too. Cheers I read something to that effect the other day. Some sort of environmentalist site I think. I wonder what the tree huggers do when a cougar eats their pet dog :-) I'm not against environmental issues at all, just those who propose some "solution" without any thought at all. People that protest fox hunting while eating a McDonalds hamburger, for instance :-) -- Cheers, John B. Probably the same thing they think when their dog or cat gets attacked by a coyote, coydog or hawk. Cheers |
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