Tsunami devistation

cc wrote:
"Bill Sornson" wrote in message
...
cc wrote:
"Bill Sornson" wrote in message
...
cc wrote:



So saving their lives and donating the materials to rebuild is
"deciding what's right for them"?


This thread is about tsunami aid. Your attitude is much larger in
scope. I was responding to the latter.

People can re-read the thread to see whose "attitude" a) came first; b) was
"black & white" (your term), and c) is flat-out wrong-minded (using any
excuse to blame "capitalism" when the thread WAS about providing
humanitarian aid...period).

Go ahead and get in your precious last word; I'm done.
--
"Sorry the world just does not work by your white penis ass."
-- Pungent Cloud

What does over 200,000 dead and more to come have to do
with riding my bike. MTB 05

Goodoz wrote:
"cc" wrote in message
...

thing, then surely giving it away will gain us resounding support in the
remainder of the world. Um .... wrong answer.



That's a bunch of hoo-haaaaaa!!!!

Only hours into that situation, "the world community" was crying out for US
money (and, it was/is needed and appropriate). Claims were even made that
we were slow to act and didn't pledge enough support. Despite our (once
again) enormous contributions, make no mistake in understanding that ANY
action taken ANY time by America IS money -- be it cash, supplies, manpower,
support etc. So, I guess you're stuck there -- unless you're talking about
acclimation for Americans toward the ways of the rest of the world (where
else is a better place to live? Go there, be well and be happy!)

Also, humanitarian aid and capitalism don't correlate (they are two
completely different things). Considering the large tsunami dollars pledged
by America, don't lose sight of the fact that our American government is
not a capitalist entity. The government "generates" nothing...it simply
"collects" dollars, in the form of taxes (which is not capitalism). All
pledges here were made by our democraticly elected officials, on behalf of
the American people (and, most of them ARE capitalists).

"Reputation" in the eyes of the world is a heavy factor for America. It is
not, however, something that weighs heavier than our way of living and
governing ourselves. If it were, why then do so many others from around the
world leave their home nations and come to live here.

If you're feeling poorly about your reputation in the rest of the world's
view, you're free to leave (unfortunately, if you live in another country,
you may not be so free to come back!!)

Goodoz



Wow! Want to run for office? I'll vote for you.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

"Goodoz" wrote in message
...

"cc" wrote in message
...

"Ride-A-Lot" wrote in message
...
J G wrote:



Only hours into that situation, "the world community" was crying out for
US
money (and, it was/is needed and appropriate). Claims were even made that
we were slow to act and didn't pledge enough support. Despite our (once
again) enormous contributions, make no mistake in understanding that ANY
action taken ANY time by America IS money -- be it cash, supplies,
manpower,
support etc.

No, this is incorrect. Our policy decisions, e.g. sanctions, efforts for
social reform, and support for other, less obvious (at least so far as the
media is concerned) humanitarian and civil rights issues all show that we
can take action without expenditures.

So, I guess you're stuck there -- unless you're talking about
acclimation for Americans toward the ways of the rest of the world (where
else is a better place to live? Go there, be well and be happy!)

Again, it's not (for me, anyway) about whose country is better, but an
understanding that there are peoples in the world who are different than we.
This is a fundamental deficiency in our collective state of mind. And you're
right: why should we? We're comfortable, we're "the best", and we have the
money. The rest of the world? **** 'em, right? What could they possibly have
to offer?


Also, humanitarian aid and capitalism don't correlate (they are two
completely different things). Considering the large tsunami dollars
pledged
by America, don't lose sight of the fact that our American government is
not a capitalist entity. The government "generates" nothing...it simply
"collects" dollars, in the form of taxes (which is not capitalism). All
pledges here were made by our democraticly elected officials, on behalf of
the American people (and, most of them ARE capitalists).

I'm not sure where you live, but it must be in a textbook that describes how
a democracy *should* work. The state and corporate sector are essentially
walking hand and hand, trampling the rights of common citizens, not to
mention the rest of the world. Wake up. Capitalism is the economy.
Corporations run the economy and domestic policy (what's good for business
is what's good for America). Saying they are two separate entities is
charmingly naive, but inaccurate. That's like saying we've achieved the
separation of church and state . . oh wait, except much worse.


"Reputation" in the eyes of the world is a heavy factor for America. It
is
not, however, something that weighs heavier than our way of living and
governing ourselves.

This is a no-brainer. The present state of world, e.g. the AIDS epidemic in
Africa, slave labor in various third-world countries, atrocious health
conditions and starvation leading to unprecedented child death rates (as
previously mentioned in this thread), wholesale prostitution trades built
around tourist traffic, (this list goes on), compared with our daily lives
(where one of us might complain because we can't ride because it's wet, or
because Mike V.'s a tool), makes it all too apparent.

If it were, why then do so many others from around the
world leave their home nations and come to live here.

Because this country is rich, and the standard of living is high. If you
could make 10x what you made in your home country, be protected by a union,
and not be treated like a slave, I think that their foreign policy might
take a back seat as a deciding factor.


If you're feeling poorly about your reputation in the rest of the world's
view, you're free to leave (unfortunately, if you live in another country,
you may not be so free to come back!!)

Thanks for the advice. Next time I want some from someone I don't know, I'll
be in touch.

cc

"cc" wrote in message
...

"Ride-A-Lot" wrote in message
...
J G wrote:


It's very sad, but I think this is a great opportunity for the USA and
especially the citizens of this country to show how compasionate we can
be. Many of the countries that were hit are Muslim countries. A show
of
support from the US will surely go a long way to showing them that we
are
not against them as the terrorists would have them think.

It's typical for us to think that money can show other nations that we
truly
care. This is exactly the capitalist mindset. If money is the most
important
thing, then surely giving it away will gain us resounding support in the
remainder of the world. Um .... wrong answer.


That's a bunch of hoo-haaaaaa!!!!

Only hours into that situation, "the world community" was crying out for US
money (and, it was/is needed and appropriate). Claims were even made that
we were slow to act and didn't pledge enough support. Despite our (once
again) enormous contributions, make no mistake in understanding that ANY
action taken ANY time by America IS money -- be it cash, supplies, manpower,
support etc. So, I guess you're stuck there -- unless you're talking about
acclimation for Americans toward the ways of the rest of the world (where
else is a better place to live? Go there, be well and be happy!)

Also, humanitarian aid and capitalism don't correlate (they are two
completely different things). Considering the large tsunami dollars pledged
by America, don't lose sight of the fact that our American government is
not a capitalist entity. The government "generates" nothing...it simply
"collects" dollars, in the form of taxes (which is not capitalism). All
pledges here were made by our democraticly elected officials, on behalf of
the American people (and, most of them ARE capitalists).

"Reputation" in the eyes of the world is a heavy factor for America. It is
not, however, something that weighs heavier than our way of living and
governing ourselves. If it were, why then do so many others from around the
world leave their home nations and come to live here.

If you're feeling poorly about your reputation in the rest of the world's
view, you're free to leave (unfortunately, if you live in another country,
you may not be so free to come back!!)

Goodoz

wrote in message
...
What does over 200,000 dead and more to come have to do
with riding my bike. MTB 05


For starter, they probably MADE your bike, you asshole.

wrote in message
...
No one remembers the earthquake in LA around 84 or 85.
I was asleep 160 miles to the north and it got me out of bed. I didn't
wine like a baby. **** happens you got to take like a man.


Oh yeah - "the" earthquake of maybe 1984 or 1985.

You are a ****ing IDIOT.

"Goodoz" wrote in message
...

"cc" wrote in message
...

"Goodoz" wrote in message
...

"cc" wrote in message
...

"Ride-A-Lot" wrote in message
...
J G wrote:




It's ignorant to imply that America has no understanding that there are
people in the world that are different from us.

Perhaps. But - for example - there was a severe lack of commentary on *why*
9/11 happened, i.e. why other countries despise us. I don't think in general
there is really room to talk about the US every being wrong. I know we can't
go back and be like "hey, sorry we totally disrespected your religion,
culture and stuff," but i think our actions in many cases have simply been
bull****.

There is no collective. We're all free and wild.....[you wake up!]

You knew I was referring to public opinion, which, by the way, is not very
diverse.

And you're
right: why should we? We're comfortable, we're "the best", and we have
the
money. The rest of the world? **** 'em, right? What could they possibly
have
to offer?

That's completely stupid! America is all over the world because it has
lot's to offer. And, the rest of the world is all over America (been on
the
web lately?)

A very small portion of our population is "all over the world." I'm sure the
vast majority of Americans never leave the country, not to mention if you
leave out Mexico and Canada. We do have a lot to offer, in particular in
science and industry, but I don't believe in general that it is these
populations that have problems realizing that other cultures (and history)
are invaluable for understanding and helping to shape our future. Scientists
didn't coin the phrase "freedom fries."

I'm not sure where you live, but it must be in a textbook that describes
how
a democracy *should* work.

I didn't bring up "Democracy"-"democraticly elected officials..." look up^

I understand that, but the separation of commerce and government is an
idealization of this nature. I also believe that the alliances I alluded to
earlier compromise our system. I wouldn't strictly call it a democracy.

The state and corporate sector are essentially
walking hand and hand, trampling the rights of common citizens, not to
mention the rest of the world. Wake up

What??? I think you dropped YOUR textbook.

You obviously aren't paying attention. Try reading. I recommend a little
Noam Chomsky and Amy Goodman. Try watching news that isn't owned by a
transnational corporation. Oh wait ! You can't do that except on cable
access ! What was I thinking? If you get your news from TV, I can't blame
you for thinking the way you do.

Capitalism is the economy.

Thank Goodness.......

Well, if you really want to call it that. Pure capitalism cannot exist
indefinitely - Marx was right - and we are a perfect example of that.
Despite our early lessons with antitrust issues, we have again let a
continued narrowing of industry control compromise the "best interests of
the citizens" supposedly provided by the competition in the capitalist
marketplace. Now that is what I call hoo-haa.

Yep -- they have much to do with it. And, it's all Federally
Regulated...what's your bright idea?

Remove the money from politics with Xtreme campaign finance reform and
improved tracking of political donations, soft money in particular. Enforce
open bidding for government contracts. Remove the state from media and
encourage independent journalism, e.g. www.democracynow.org

(what's good for business
is what's good for America)

Correct.

No no no, I was pointing out this Coolidge quote as a joke. It is this trump
that allows businesses to walk over human rights as secondary to the
economic well-being of our country.

Let's not bring religion into this...

I'm not. I'm just saying that it's another idealistic notion, similar to the
idea that we exercise control over this country.

I'm sorry, that was weak..(what else can we do that we don't already-what
are your ideas?)
(but yes, Mike V's......)

Well, most follow from what I've listed above. We need to take ownership of
this country. We don't show that we act out of the principle of the overall
good of mankind. I know that sounds ridiculous, but our actions are
transparently self-serving. This is why the world is tired of us. We're
bullies. Examples?

Environmental regulations: The refusal to set this standard just shows a
total lack of responsibility, which as THE world superpower, we should
demonstrate. Not to mention our unbelievable consumption of oil per capita
compared to the rest of the world. It is the government's responsibility to
recognize the need for energy reform, and to encourage it despite the push
from auto, oil, and chemical lobbyists to thwart these efforts.
Exploitation of laborers in third-world countries: It is our task to take a
stand against this practice, which we have pioneered.
Bilking of poor countries for aid by pharamaceutical companies: This is so
low, and a perfect example of where humanity has been sacrificed for profit.
Let's see -- how about we extort those who can least afford it for
medication that they need to, um, live.
The systematic manipulation and misuse of scientific information to
structure public policy: This has mostly to do with the current
administration, thank god. It's not as systematic as other problems, but is
still a poor example.

I could go on, but I'm sure you're uninterested in my opinions.

But your question was "what can we do that we aren't already?" On a
political level, the above need to be pursued. On a personal level, we can
make a difference. Don't buy an SUV. Use renewable fuels, and make demand
for them known. Boycott corporations that exploit workers.

Outside of these, we can get involved in government. We need to stop being
comfortable turning the other cheek to what goes on to those that are less
fortunate, and look out for everyone, not just the fortunate. The Monroe
Doctrine was bull****.

Because this country is rich, and the standard of living is high. If you
could make 10x what you made in your home country, be protected by a
union,
and not be treated like a slave, I think that their foreign policy might
take a back seat as a deciding factor.

Wow -- that's deep. OK,.....close the Manifesto, and get some rest
(really)...

Well, i'm sorry, but that is reality in many cases. I recognize that we also
offer liberties that are not available in other countries, but I guarantee
standard of living is generally first consideration.

Wow! Want to run for office? I'll vote for you.

--
o-o-o-o Ride-A-Lot o-o-o-o
www.schnauzers.ws

Nope! I just want to live, care for, and enjoy, my family and laugh a
lot....until it's time to move on...

Goodoz ;-)

"cc" wrote in message
...

"Goodoz" wrote in message
...

"cc" wrote in message
...

"Ride-A-Lot" wrote in message
...
J G wrote:



Only hours into that situation, "the world community" was crying out for
US
money (and, it was/is needed and appropriate). Claims were even made
that
we were slow to act and didn't pledge enough support. Despite our (once
again) enormous contributions, make no mistake in understanding that ANY
action taken ANY time by America IS money -- be it cash, supplies,
manpower,
support etc.

No, this is incorrect. Our policy decisions, e.g. sanctions, efforts for
social reform, and support for other, less obvious (at least so far as the
media is concerned) humanitarian and civil rights issues all show that we
can take action without expenditures.

I suppose we could offer well wishes.....instead....



So, I guess you're stuck there -- unless you're talking about
acclimation for Americans toward the ways of the rest of the world
(where
else is a better place to live? Go there, be well and be happy!)

Again, it's not (for me, anyway) about whose country is better, but an
understanding that there are peoples in the world who are different than
we.

It's ignorant to imply that America has no understanding that there are
people in the world that are different from us.


This is a fundamental deficiency in our collective state of mind.

There is no collective. We're all free and wild.....[you wake up!]

And you're
right: why should we? We're comfortable, we're "the best", and we have the
money. The rest of the world? **** 'em, right? What could they possibly
have
to offer?

That's completely stupid! America is all over the world because it has
lot's to offer. And, the rest of the world is all over America (been on the
web lately?)


Also, humanitarian aid and capitalism don't correlate (they are two
completely different things). Considering the large tsunami dollars
pledged
by America, don't lose sight of the fact that our American government
is
not a capitalist entity. The government "generates" nothing...it simply
"collects" dollars, in the form of taxes (which is not capitalism). All
pledges here were made by our democraticly elected officials, on behalf
of
the American people (and, most of them ARE capitalists).

I'm not sure where you live, but it must be in a textbook that describes
how
a democracy *should* work.

I didn't bring up "Democracy"-"democraticly elected officials..." look up^

The state and corporate sector are essentially
walking hand and hand, trampling the rights of common citizens, not to
mention the rest of the world. Wake up

What??? I think you dropped YOUR textbook.
..
Capitalism is the economy.

Thank Goodness.......

Corporations run the economy and domestic policy

Yep -- they have much to do with it. And, it's all Federally
Regulated...what's your bright idea?

(what's good for business
is what's good for America)

Correct.


.. Saying they are two separate entities is
charmingly naive, but inaccurate. That's like saying we've achieved the
separation of church and state . . oh wait, except much worse.

Let's not bring religion into this...



"Reputation" in the eyes of the world is a heavy factor for America. It
is
not, however, something that weighs heavier than our way of living and
governing ourselves.

This is a no-brainer. The present state of world, e.g. the AIDS epidemic
in
Africa, slave labor in various third-world countries, atrocious health
conditions and starvation leading to unprecedented child death rates (as
previously mentioned in this thread), wholesale prostitution trades built
around tourist traffic, (this list goes on), compared with our daily lives
(where one of us might complain because we can't ride because it's wet, or
because Mike V.'s a tool), makes it all too apparent.

I'm sorry, that was weak..(what else can we do that we don't already-what
are your ideas?)
(but yes, Mike V's......)


If it were, why then do so many others from around the
world leave their home nations and come to live here.

Because this country is rich, and the standard of living is high. If you
could make 10x what you made in your home country, be protected by a
union,
and not be treated like a slave, I think that their foreign policy might
take a back seat as a deciding factor.

Wow -- that's deep. OK,.....close the Manifesto, and get some rest
(really)...



If you're feeling poorly about your reputation in the rest of the
world's
view, you're free to leave (unfortunately, if you live in another
country,
you may not be so free to come back!!)

Thanks for the advice. Next time I want some from someone I don't know,
I'll
be in touch.

cc

Please don't feel the need to ask....

Goodoz