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Why to avoid cycle lanes



 
 
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  #11  
Old October 27th 18, 03:33 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Jester
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,727
Default Why to avoid cycle lanes

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 2:14:13 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 14:07, Simon Jester wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 1:29:30 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 13:24, Simon Jester wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 1:05:14 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 02:47, Simon Jester wrote:
On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 8:44:47 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 25/10/2018 18:42, Simon Jester wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y5r2kpuOHg

The driver obviously thought he was driving OK because he did not encroach into the cycle lane.
These cycle 'facilities' should be painted red to show the part of the carriageway cyclists should avoid.

Why not just allow everyone to use the full width of the road?

After all, they're obviously no use to cyclists.

Agreed, cyclists should use the full width of the road rather than cowering in the gutter.
Thanks for your support.

Happy to provide it again. I have never supported the roping-off of any
part of the carriageway for any purpose other than carrying all classes
of vehicle. All of it should be available to everyone. Just like it used
to be.

So you think cyclists should be able to use motorways?

"Just like it used to be".

There's a big clue in the words used.

Cyclists have always been as free to use motorways an anyone else. All
they need is a car / lorry / van / coach / motorbike, etc.


How do you feel about the fact that motor taxes only pay for 60% of the motorway maintenance budget?


Did you mean to ask how I feel about the fact that it is a blatant lie?


No, I am asking how you feel about the fact that motor taxes raise £6 billion/year and it costs £10 billion/year to maintain the current motorway network.



The rest has to come from general taxation and even Autoholics Anonymous admit cyclists are more likely to be high rate tax payers.


The old ones are sp frequently the best, aren't they?


Not really, the 'Old Ones' still believe in the Road Tax that was abolished in 1934.


Just for the record, I anm not jealous of anyone who is Considerably
Richer Than Me, irrespective of their transport oddities.


Yet you are prepared to live off their taxes.


Ads
  #12  
Old October 27th 18, 04:09 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 350
Default Why to avoid cycle lanes

On 27/10/2018 15:33, Simon Jester wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 2:14:13 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 14:07, Simon Jester wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 1:29:30 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 13:24, Simon Jester wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 1:05:14 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 02:47, Simon Jester wrote:
On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 8:44:47 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 25/10/2018 18:42, Simon Jester wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y5r2kpuOHg

The driver obviously thought he was driving OK because he did not encroach into the cycle lane.
These cycle 'facilities' should be painted red to show the part of the carriageway cyclists should avoid.

Why not just allow everyone to use the full width of the road?

After all, they're obviously no use to cyclists.

Agreed, cyclists should use the full width of the road rather than cowering in the gutter.
Thanks for your support.

Happy to provide it again. I have never supported the roping-off of any
part of the carriageway for any purpose other than carrying all classes
of vehicle. All of it should be available to everyone. Just like it used
to be.

So you think cyclists should be able to use motorways?

"Just like it used to be".

There's a big clue in the words used.

Cyclists have always been as free to use motorways an anyone else. All
they need is a car / lorry / van / coach / motorbike, etc.

How do you feel about the fact that motor taxes only pay for 60% of the motorway maintenance budget?


Did you mean to ask how I feel about the fact that it is a blatant lie?


No, I am asking how you feel about the fact that motor taxes raise £6 billion/year and it costs £10 billion/year to maintain the current motorway network.


Which motor taxes are you including and/or excluding?

I think any sensible person would require a credible citation for your
claim that motorway maintenance costs £10,000,000,000 per annum.

The rest has to come from general taxation and even Autoholics Anonymous admit cyclists are more likely to be high rate tax payers.


The old ones are sp frequently the best, aren't they?


Not really, the 'Old Ones' still believe in the Road Tax that was abolished in 1934...


....but oddly, managed to survive its own abolition and carry on without
a break under a succession of different names.

Just for the record, I anm not jealous of anyone who is Considerably
Richer Than Me, irrespective of their transport oddities.


Yet you are prepared to live off their taxes.


Am I?

  #13  
Old October 27th 18, 08:55 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Jester
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,727
Default Why to avoid cycle lanes

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 6:59:41 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 18:22, MrCheerful wrote:
On 27/10/2018 16:09, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 15:33, Simon Jester wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 2:14:13 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 14:07, Simon Jester wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 1:29:30 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 13:24, Simon Jester wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 1:05:14 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 02:47, Simon Jester wrote:
On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 8:44:47 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 25/10/2018 18:42, Simon Jester wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y5r2kpuOHg

The driver obviously thought he was driving OK because he did
not encroach into the cycle lane.
These cycle 'facilities' should be painted red to show the
part of the carriageway cyclists should avoid.

Why not just allow everyone to use the full width of the road?

After all, they're obviously no use to cyclists.

Agreed, cyclists should use the full width of the road rather
than cowering in the gutter.
Thanks for your support.

Happy to provide it again. I have never supported the roping-off
of any
part of the carriageway for any purpose other than carrying all
classes
of vehicle. All of it should be available to everyone. Just like
it used
to be.

So you think cyclists should be able to use motorways?

"Just like it used to be".

There's a big clue in the words used.

Cyclists have always been as free to use motorways an anyone else.
All
they need is a car / lorry / van / coach / motorbike, etc.

How do you feel about the fact that motor taxes only pay for 60% of
the motorway maintenance budget?

Did you mean to ask how I feel about the fact that it is a blatant lie?

No, I am asking how you feel about the fact that motor taxes raise £6
billion/year and it costs £10 billion/year to maintain the current
motorway network.

Which motor taxes are you including and/or excluding?

I think any sensible person would require a credible citation for your
claim that motorway maintenance costs £10,000,000,000 per annum.

The rest has to come from general taxation and even Autoholics
Anonymous admit cyclists are more likely to be high rate tax payers..

The old ones are sp frequently the best, aren't they?

Not really, the 'Old Ones' still believe in the Road Tax that was
abolished in 1934...

...but oddly, managed to survive its own abolition and carry on
without a break under a succession of different names.

Just for the record, I anm not jealous of anyone who is Considerably
Richer Than Me, irrespective of their transport oddities.

Yet you are prepared to live off their taxes.

Am I?


UK expenditure on national roads was 4.7 billion in 2017 - 2018
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ational-roads/


fuel duties in 2016 - 2017 were 28 billion
ved duties 2016 - 2017 were nearly 6 billion

expenditure on roads is 27 percent of the income from ved and fuel duty
https://www.racfoundation.org/data/r...ing-data-chart


That is much closer to what I thought might be the case.

I wonder whether Jester will argue it?


My local council spent £2.5million last year just on pothole repair, equation to £1 billion nationally.
And a further £6.5 million repairing just 2 bridges, £2 Billion nationally.
Even if councils did no other road improvement or maintenance work that doesn't leave much for the entire trunk road system. Conclusion, the £4.7billion figure is bogus.

As for fuel duty, all road users pay fuel duty not just motorists.
  #14  
Old October 27th 18, 10:41 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,875
Default Why to avoid cycle lanes

On 27/10/18 20:55, Simon Jester wrote:

My local council spent £2.5million last year just on pothole repair,
equation to £1 billion nationally. And a further £6.5 million
repairing just 2 bridges, £2 Billion nationally. Even if councils did
no other road improvement or maintenance work that doesn't leave much
for the entire trunk road system. Conclusion, the £4.7billion figure
is bogus.


My council spent something like £16 million grubbing up some perfectly
good streetlamps to fit led ones. Needless to say they claim poverty
when it comes to maintenance. You're probably right that a lot of money
spent on roads is probably hidden under other things.

As for fuel duty, all road users pay fuel duty not just motorists.


And some people pay vehicle and fuel duties out of the benefits given to
them by tax payers. The receipts from the duties is not all fresh money.
  #15  
Old October 27th 18, 10:46 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Jester
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,727
Default Why to avoid cycle lanes

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 8:55:02 PM UTC+1, Simon Jester wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 6:59:41 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 18:22, MrCheerful wrote:
On 27/10/2018 16:09, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 15:33, Simon Jester wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 2:14:13 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 14:07, Simon Jester wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 1:29:30 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 13:24, Simon Jester wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 1:05:14 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 02:47, Simon Jester wrote:
On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 8:44:47 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 25/10/2018 18:42, Simon Jester wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y5r2kpuOHg

The driver obviously thought he was driving OK because he did
not encroach into the cycle lane.
These cycle 'facilities' should be painted red to show the
part of the carriageway cyclists should avoid.

Why not just allow everyone to use the full width of the road?

After all, they're obviously no use to cyclists.

Agreed, cyclists should use the full width of the road rather
than cowering in the gutter.
Thanks for your support.

Happy to provide it again. I have never supported the roping-off
of any
part of the carriageway for any purpose other than carrying all
classes
of vehicle. All of it should be available to everyone. Just like
it used
to be.

So you think cyclists should be able to use motorways?

"Just like it used to be".

There's a big clue in the words used.

Cyclists have always been as free to use motorways an anyone else.
All
they need is a car / lorry / van / coach / motorbike, etc.

How do you feel about the fact that motor taxes only pay for 60% of
the motorway maintenance budget?

Did you mean to ask how I feel about the fact that it is a blatant lie?

No, I am asking how you feel about the fact that motor taxes raise £6
billion/year and it costs £10 billion/year to maintain the current
motorway network.

Which motor taxes are you including and/or excluding?

I think any sensible person would require a credible citation for your
claim that motorway maintenance costs £10,000,000,000 per annum..

The rest has to come from general taxation and even Autoholics
Anonymous admit cyclists are more likely to be high rate tax payers.

The old ones are sp frequently the best, aren't they?

Not really, the 'Old Ones' still believe in the Road Tax that was
abolished in 1934...

...but oddly, managed to survive its own abolition and carry on
without a break under a succession of different names.

Just for the record, I anm not jealous of anyone who is Considerably
Richer Than Me, irrespective of their transport oddities.

Yet you are prepared to live off their taxes.

Am I?


UK expenditure on national roads was 4.7 billion in 2017 - 2018
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ational-roads/


fuel duties in 2016 - 2017 were 28 billion
ved duties 2016 - 2017 were nearly 6 billion

expenditure on roads is 27 percent of the income from ved and fuel duty
https://www.racfoundation.org/data/r...ing-data-chart


That is much closer to what I thought might be the case.

I wonder whether Jester will argue it?


My local council spent £2.5million last year just on pothole repair, equation to £1 billion nationally.
And a further £6.5 million repairing just 2 bridges, £2 Billion nationally.
Even if councils did no other road improvement or maintenance work that doesn't leave much for the entire trunk road system. Conclusion, the £4..7billion figure is bogus.

As for fuel duty, all road users pay fuel duty not just motorists.


Basic research shows it costs £100 million per junction to upgrade to smart motorways.
Given we only have £1.7 billion to play how may junction can we upgrade? For an extra point, who pays for the maintenance of the current motorways?
  #16  
Old October 27th 18, 10:57 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
Simon Jester
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,727
Default Why to avoid cycle lanes

On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 10:42:02 PM UTC+1, TMS320 wrote:
On 27/10/18 20:55, Simon Jester wrote:

My local council spent £2.5million last year just on pothole repair,
equation to £1 billion nationally. And a further £6.5 million
repairing just 2 bridges, £2 Billion nationally. Even if councils did
no other road improvement or maintenance work that doesn't leave much
for the entire trunk road system. Conclusion, the £4.7billion figure
is bogus.


My council spent something like £16 million grubbing up some perfectly
good streetlamps to fit led ones. Needless to say they claim poverty
when it comes to maintenance. You're probably right that a lot of money
spent on roads is probably hidden under other things.


A bit like my Mother who will turn off the TV at the wall rather than leave it in standby yet half fills the kettle to make a cup of tea, not realising she is using more energy in 30 seconds than a TV in standby will use in a century.

  #17  
Old October 27th 18, 11:35 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 350
Default Why to avoid cycle lanes

On 27/10/2018 20:55, Simon Jester wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 6:59:41 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 18:22, MrCheerful wrote:
On 27/10/2018 16:09, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 15:33, Simon Jester wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 2:14:13 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 14:07, Simon Jester wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 1:29:30 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 13:24, Simon Jester wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 1:05:14 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 02:47, Simon Jester wrote:
On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 8:44:47 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 25/10/2018 18:42, Simon Jester wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y5r2kpuOHg

The driver obviously thought he was driving OK because he did
not encroach into the cycle lane.
These cycle 'facilities' should be painted red to show the
part of the carriageway cyclists should avoid.

Why not just allow everyone to use the full width of the road?

After all, they're obviously no use to cyclists.

Agreed, cyclists should use the full width of the road rather
than cowering in the gutter.
Thanks for your support.

Happy to provide it again. I have never supported the roping-off
of any
part of the carriageway for any purpose other than carrying all
classes
of vehicle. All of it should be available to everyone. Just like
it used
to be.

So you think cyclists should be able to use motorways?

"Just like it used to be".

There's a big clue in the words used.

Cyclists have always been as free to use motorways an anyone else.
All
they need is a car / lorry / van / coach / motorbike, etc.

How do you feel about the fact that motor taxes only pay for 60% of
the motorway maintenance budget?

Did you mean to ask how I feel about the fact that it is a blatant lie?

No, I am asking how you feel about the fact that motor taxes raise £6
billion/year and it costs £10 billion/year to maintain the current
motorway network.

Which motor taxes are you including and/or excluding?

I think any sensible person would require a credible citation for your
claim that motorway maintenance costs £10,000,000,000 per annum.

The rest has to come from general taxation and even Autoholics
Anonymous admit cyclists are more likely to be high rate tax payers.

The old ones are sp frequently the best, aren't they?

Not really, the 'Old Ones' still believe in the Road Tax that was
abolished in 1934...

...but oddly, managed to survive its own abolition and carry on
without a break under a succession of different names.

Just for the record, I anm not jealous of anyone who is Considerably
Richer Than Me, irrespective of their transport oddities.

Yet you are prepared to live off their taxes.

Am I?


UK expenditure on national roads was 4.7 billion in 2017 - 2018
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ational-roads/


fuel duties in 2016 - 2017 were 28 billion
ved duties 2016 - 2017 were nearly 6 billion

expenditure on roads is 27 percent of the income from ved and fuel duty
https://www.racfoundation.org/data/r...ing-data-chart


That is much closer to what I thought might be the case.

I wonder whether Jester will argue it?


My local council spent £2.5million last year just on pothole repair, equation to £1 billion nationally.
And a further £6.5 million repairing just 2 bridges, £2 Billion nationally.


Why does your local council spend money nationally?

Are there not enough pot-holes within its own area?

Even if councils did no other road improvement or maintenance work that doesn't leave much for the entire trunk road system. Conclusion, the £4.7billion figure is bogus.


As for fuel duty, all road users pay fuel duty not just motorists.


Oh, this is going to be a good one.

  #18  
Old October 27th 18, 11:36 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 350
Default Why to avoid cycle lanes

On 27/10/2018 22:41, TMS320 wrote:
On 27/10/18 20:55, Simon Jester wrote:

My local council spent £2.5million last year just on pothole repair,
equation to £1 billion nationally. And a further £6.5 million
repairing just 2 bridges, £2 Billion nationally. Even if councils did
no other road improvement or maintenance work that doesn't leave much
for the entire trunk road system. Conclusion, the £4.7billion figure
is bogus.


My council spent something like £16 million grubbing up some perfectly
good streetlamps to fit led ones. Needless to say they claim poverty
when it comes to maintenance. You're probably right that a lot of money
spent on roads is probably hidden under other things.


What, ten thousand million pounds a year?

As for fuel duty, all road users pay fuel duty not just motorists.


And some people pay vehicle and fuel duties out of the benefits given to
them by tax payers. The receipts from the duties is not all fresh money.


  #19  
Old October 27th 18, 11:41 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
JNugent[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 350
Default Why to avoid cycle lanes

On 27/10/2018 19:03, MrCheerful wrote:
On 27/10/2018 18:59, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 18:22, MrCheerful wrote:
On 27/10/2018 16:09, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 15:33, Simon Jester wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 2:14:13 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 14:07, Simon Jester wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 1:29:30 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 13:24, Simon Jester wrote:
On Saturday, October 27, 2018 at 1:05:14 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 02:47, Simon Jester wrote:
On Friday, October 26, 2018 at 8:44:47 PM UTC+1, JNugent wrote:
On 25/10/2018 18:42, Simon Jester wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0y5r2kpuOHg

The driver obviously thought he was driving OK because he
did not encroach into the cycle lane.
These cycle 'facilities' should be painted red to show the
part of the carriageway cyclists should avoid.

Why not just allow everyone to use the full width of the road?

After all, they're obviously no use to cyclists.

Agreed, cyclists should use the full width of the road rather
than cowering in the gutter.
Thanks for your support.

Happy to provide it again. I have never supported the
roping-off of any
part of the carriageway for any purpose other than carrying
all classes
of vehicle. All of it should be available to everyone. Just
like it used
to be.

So you think cyclists should be able to use motorways?

"Just like it used to be".

There's a big clue in the words used.

Cyclists have always been as free to use motorways an anyone
else. All
they need is a car / lorry / van / coach / motorbike, etc.

How do you feel about the fact that motor taxes only pay for 60%
of the motorway maintenance budget?

Did you mean to ask how I feel about the fact that it is a blatant
lie?

No, I am asking how you feel about the fact that motor taxes raise
£6 billion/year and it costs £10 billion/year to maintain the
current motorway network.

Which motor taxes are you including and/or excluding?

I think any sensible person would require a credible citation for
your claim that motorway maintenance costs £10,000,000,000 per annum.

The rest has to come from general taxation and even Autoholics
Anonymous admit cyclists are more likely to be high rate tax payers.

The old ones are sp frequently the best, aren't they?

Not really, the 'Old Ones' still believe in the Road Tax that was
abolished in 1934...

...but oddly, managed to survive its own abolition and carry on
without a break under a succession of different names.

Just for the record, I anm not jealous of anyone who is Considerably
Richer Than Me, irrespective of their transport oddities.

Yet you are prepared to live off their taxes.

Am I?


UK expenditure on national roads was 4.7 billion in 2017 - 2018
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...ational-roads/


fuel duties in 2016 - 2017 were 28 billion
ved duties 2016 - 2017 were nearly 6 billion

expenditure on roads is 27 percent of the income from ved and fuel duty
https://www.racfoundation.org/data/r...ing-data-chart


That is much closer to what I thought might be the case.

I wonder whether Jester will argue it?


of course, perhaps I created those web pages.

Do you remember when Doug said that some anti-cyclist here had created
the DVLA road tax ads?


I don't, but it sounds like Doug. :-)

I wonder what happened to him? I know he retired from NGs rather than a
worse fate having befallen him, but that was a good while back and he
wasn't in the best of health even then.

  #20  
Old October 28th 18, 06:11 PM posted to uk.rec.cycling
TMS320
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,875
Default Why to avoid cycle lanes

On 27/10/18 23:36, JNugent wrote:
On 27/10/2018 22:41, TMS320 wrote:
On 27/10/18 20:55, Simon Jester wrote:

My local council spent £2.5million last year just on pothole repair,
equation to £1 billion nationally. And a further £6.5 million
repairing just 2 bridges, £2 Billion nationally. Even if councils did
no other road improvement or maintenance work that doesn't leave much
for the entire trunk road system. Conclusion, the £4.7billion figure
is bogus.


My council spent something like £16 million grubbing up some perfectly
good streetlamps to fit led ones. Needless to say they claim poverty
when it comes to maintenance. You're probably right that a lot of
money spent on roads is probably hidden under other things.


What, ten thousand million pounds a year?


UK GDP is about £2x10^15 of which the government spends 40%. 10^10 is
the equivalent of someone earning £80K and not knowing whether a £1 of
it was spent on hummus or petrol.

As for fuel duty, all road users pay fuel duty not just motorists.


And some people pay vehicle and fuel duties out of the benefits given
to them by tax payers. The receipts from the duties is not all fresh
money.


 




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