Zabel confesses too

On Thu, 24 May 2007 13:15:13 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:

PS -- she set up an altitude room in her bedroom.
--
JT

I've heard that one of those amplifies the effect of drinking. Does it
serve any other purpose?

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

in message . com,
') wrote:

guys like zabel and aldag made millions and enjoyed plenty of glory
and they used drugs occsionally or consistenly to achieve those
things.

is zabel going to give back his millions and sell his apartment which
houses his collection of historic bikes and live like a $40,000/yr
schmoe ? i doubt it.

Millions? Out of bike racing?

Wrong sport, mate.

Armstrong made millions; everybody else only makes millions if you count it
in Lire. Half the pro peloton are scraping the legal minimum wage.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Perl ... is the Brittney Spears of programming - easily accessible
;; but, in the final analysis, empty of any significant thought
;; Frank Adrian on Slashdot, 21st July 2003

in message , John Forrest
Tomlinson ') wrote:

Becki Scott rocks. Though I think she was the person who sent Dick
Pound off the deep end in recklessly branding people as dopers. At
the press conference after she won her bronze medal she was asked if,
given her strong anti-doping sentiments, she thought the two athletes
ahead of her were doping. She gave an answer that was noncommittal but
suggested she did. Pound went ballistic after that, claiming she was
irresponsble to suggest such a thing, that the athletes had passed the
tests, etc. And a bit over a year later he looked like a naive fool.

PS -- she set up an altitude room in her bedroom.

I have to confess that I find it hard to see a moral distinction between
using an altitude tent and using EPO. They're both technical means of
achieving precisely the same advantage - if one is cheating, so is the
other.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

[ This .sig subject to change without notice ]

Dans le message de ,
Simon Brooke a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :
in message . com,
') wrote:

guys like zabel and aldag made millions and enjoyed plenty of glory
and they used drugs occsionally or consistenly to achieve those
things.

is zabel going to give back his millions and sell his apartment which
houses his collection of historic bikes and live like a $40,000/yr
schmoe ? i doubt it.

Millions? Out of bike racing?

Wrong sport, mate.

Zabel. Try again. An altitude tent will give you more cerebral oxygenation
ONLY if you leave it.

Curtis L. Russell wrote:
On Thu, 24 May 2007 13:15:13 -0400, John Forrest Tomlinson
wrote:

PS -- she set up an altitude room in her bedroom.
--
JT

I've heard that one of those amplifies the effect of drinking. Does it
serve any other purpose?

What is the result of:

PS
-- = ?
JT

In article ,
Bob Schwartz wrote:

Ewoud Dronkert wrote:
On Thu, 24 May 2007 09:06:55 -0500, Bob Schwartz wrote:
Why am I the only one to notice that he hasn't opened up?

Zabel? You mean more than: [summarized translation] "I tried it during
the first week of the Tour 1996. I wanted to try it out but it was
just this once. Jef and I decided I should stop when I noticed I
overheated."

Yeah. How about when he was winning Milan-San Remo in March, taking
the Green jersey in July, winning the World Cup, and then riding
six days? I guess that was all mineral water.

Telekom rode the 1995 Tour as a combination team with 5 riders. In
1996 and 1997 they were the top team in the sport. No **** there
was institutionalized doping.

People are comfortable with all sorts of doping. They just don't
want to know about it.

I do not not want to know about it.
I prefer that after a few years we close the books.

--
Michael Press

On May 24, 3:58 pm, Simon Brooke wrote:

I have to confess that I find it hard to see a moral distinction between
using an altitude tent and using EPO. They're both technical means of
achieving precisely the same advantage - if one is cheating, so is the
other.

no one's asking about your moral distinction. one is against the rules
and the other is not.

On Thu, 24 May 2007 20:58:57 +0100, Simon Brooke
wrote:

in message , John Forrest
Tomlinson ') wrote:

Becki Scott rocks. Though I think she was the person who sent Dick
Pound off the deep end in recklessly branding people as dopers. At
the press conference after she won her bronze medal she was asked if,
given her strong anti-doping sentiments, she thought the two athletes
ahead of her were doping. She gave an answer that was noncommittal but
suggested she did. Pound went ballistic after that, claiming she was
irresponsble to suggest such a thing, that the athletes had passed the
tests, etc. And a bit over a year later he looked like a naive fool.

PS -- she set up an altitude room in her bedroom.

I have to confess that I find it hard to see a moral distinction between
using an altitude tent and using EPO. They're both technical means of
achieving precisely the same advantage - if one is cheating, so is the
other.

Cheating means breaking rules. There was no rule against altitude
tents.

--
JT
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On Thu, 24 May 2007 20:58:57 +0100, Simon Brooke wrote:

in message , John Forrest
Tomlinson ') wrote:

Becki Scott rocks. Though I think she was the person who sent Dick
Pound off the deep end in recklessly branding people as dopers. At
the press conference after she won her bronze medal she was asked if,
given her strong anti-doping sentiments, she thought the two athletes
ahead of her were doping. She gave an answer that was noncommittal but
suggested she did. Pound went ballistic after that, claiming she was
irresponsble to suggest such a thing, that the athletes had passed the
tests, etc. And a bit over a year later he looked like a naive fool.

PS -- she set up an altitude room in her bedroom.

I have to confess that I find it hard to see a moral distinction between
using an altitude tent and using EPO. They're both technical means of
achieving precisely the same advantage - if one is cheating, so is the
other.

Is using a bus to commute from your living quarters to your training site also
artificial? If they are at different altitudes? At greater altitude differences
that you could ride without disrupting your training program?

Ron

On 24 May 2007 09:57:43 -0700, "
wrote:

On May 24, 11:44 am, RonSonic wrote:

Why should they have said anything? Please use all the words you need to present
the argument.


do you mean zabel and aldag ? when the docs came forward aldag had to
face the question since he's a DS on the team which is supposedly the
clean team after their housecleaning last year.

his bosses don't need a court case and "beyond a reasonable doubt",
they can evaluate the evidence themselves. he can dodge the public,
but he can't dodge his bosses.

zabel wasn't under as much pressure, but just like puerto, eventually
someone would cave and it opens the door for more to come forward.

No, I mean why should they have said anything before. As far as they know, or
have ever known, this is how cycling is done. You dope, you train and you don't
tell anyone how you got faster than them. That's how it's been since 1890 or so.
I know, I may be exaggerating for effect. But not everyone looks at it in moral
terms. You take vitamins and whatever else your knowledge and trainers find
helps. Is icing down after training immoral, it artificially helps recovery. So
does HGH.

True, one is against the rules and the other isn't. That's not the same as
immoral.

Ron