So who started it all with EPO ?

On Mon, 28 May 2007 23:47:33 +0100, Simon Brooke
wrote:

The whole US Olympic team was blood doping in 1984.

Not true - it was perhaps most of the team, but not all.

--
JT
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"Mark" a écrit dans le message de news:
...
| On May 26, 2:34 pm, "Caroline" wrote:
| [EPO] It was first developed in Croatia in 1988, when Croatia
| was still part of the Soviet Bloc, and God only knows how long it took
| before it reached Europe.
|
|
| FWIW....
|
| EPO was known well before 1988 and had been expressed and purified
| many years before in numerous laboratories. Amgen (and several other
| biotechs and pharma) had commenced clinical trials in the early 1980s
| in various indications (none of which were pro-cycling).
|
| The FDA approved EPO (rHuEPO) for treatment of anemia in a setting of
| end stage renal disease (ESRD) in 1989.
|
| Can you provide some additional background (literature citations) on
| the putative Croatia involvement in the development of EPO? I've never
| heard this story before and would be interested as I worked at one of
| the biotechs that was engaged in the race to commercialize the first
| recombinant proteins (EPO, TPA, etc).
|
| Cheers,
|
| Mark
|

Yes, I doubt that Croatia was big into cutting edge biotech in the mid 80s.
I remember first hearing about synthetic EPO in 88. It was commercially
available in Europe before the US. At the time I was told that it was
because of patent fights between Amgen and Johnson and Johnson. As someone
with ESRD who needed a tranfusion every 3 weeks just to raise my hematocrit
to 25, I was lucky to be able to get EPO as part of a "clinical trial" in
1989 before it was commercially available in the US by telling my doctor
that I was planning to go to France to get it.

Best drug I've ever taken, bar none. Certainly much better than orange
juice.

a écrit dans le message de news:
...
|
| wrote:
| SNIP
|
| I wonder, is there enough genuine clinical need for EPO to warrant
| sales of three billion?
|
| If not, are the pharmaceutical giants complicit in the doping of
| athletes by allowing volumes of sales that they know are outside the
| clinical need?
|
| I'm getting envious -- the pro racers are getting the generic EPO, but
| according to my HMO
| formulary I'd be stuck taking expensive, proprietary ProCrit if my
| globometric filtration rate goes bad or my bone marrow decides to skip
| red blood cell production because white cells are more fun.
|
| Rleone
|
If I were you I'd skip the Procrit and go right to Aranesp. That is unless
you like injections.

In article ,
"benjo maso" wrote:

wrote in message
oups.com...
On May 27, 9:54 pm, Ryan Cousineau wrote:
"benjo maso" wrote:

Even Coppi was convinced that Bartali didn't use performance enhancing
drugs.

Benjo

Hah! You can win the tour on bread and water!

Viva Bartali, my obsessive, imbibing, pious hero. I know him (and the
nearly-as-wonderful Coppi) only from Owen Mulholland's _Uphill Battle_,
so I suppose it is high time I sought out a better biography or two.

Dumbass,

http://www.velopress.com/cycling_history.php?id=36

"The Giro d'Italia: Coppi versus Bartali at the
1949 Tour of Italy," by Dino Buzzati.

It's not a biography. Neither is "De Renner" a biography
of Tim Krabbe. So who needs biography? If you don't
go get this book, Bob Schwartz and I will come to your
house in the middle of the night and take away your
dog's Clenbuterol.

Tim Krabbés book had been translated in English and is called "The Rider".
It's a wonderful, one of the best books on cycling I've ever read.

Benjo

I concur. I sought it out, and I consider it, in translation, one of the
best books I have ever read.

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

a écrit dans le message de news:
...
| I wonder, is there enough genuine clinical need for EPO to warrant
| sales of three billion?
|
| If not, are the pharmaceutical giants complicit in the doping of
| athletes by allowing volumes of sales that they know are outside the
| clinical need?
|
|

The huge majority of users are people who need it for medical reasons- renal
failure and chemo. In the US alone there are 60000 people on dialysis whose
kidneys aren't functioning. Add folks (like me) who have insufficient kidney
function but are not (yet) on dialysis, plus the chemo patients and take
that for every western country and you get a lot of patients. And unlike
athletes, these folks aren't microdosing at certain points in their season.
They're taking full doses continually throughout the year. And
epogen/aranesp ain't cheap.

In article ,
"benjo maso" wrote:

"Ryan Cousineau" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"benjo maso" wrote:

"Simon Brooke" wrote in message
...
in message , Morten Reippuert Knudsen
') wrote:

Keith wrote:

[first clean winner of the Tour]

Even Coppi was convinced that Bartali didn't use performance enhancing
drugs.

Benjo

Hah! You can win the tour on bread and water!


Perhaps you can, but Bartali won the Tour on lots of coffee, cigarettes,
bistecca fiorentina and a bottle of Chianti at dinner ...

LIVEDRUNK endorses all of these practices, except smoking. Kids: don't
smoke, because it kills the taste of good beer.

Viva Bartali, my obsessive, imbibing, pious hero. I know him (and the
nearly-as-wonderful Coppi) only from Owen Mulholland's _Uphill Battle_,
so I suppose it is high time I sought out a better biography or two.

It's a pity my book on the Tour of 1948 has not been translated in English
:-(

It may be worth learning Dutch to read it.

Oh, who am I kidding? I need to finish my Greek lessons first.

For my part, I would point out that in the early days it was not unusual
for riders to partake of drugs that these days we would expect to harm
their performance.

Absolutely. For instance, riders discovered only in the 1920's that
drinking alcohol during the race was perhaps not such a good idea. Of course
they all knew that the stimulating effect did not last long, but they tried
to overcome this by constantly taking new doses. For instance, the racers
of the Alcyon team drank a whole bottle of cognac during Bordeaux-Paris,
augmented by a few glasses of white wine, port, and champagne. Fortunately
the riders of that time seldom entered more than forty races annually, for
otherwise cirrhosis of the liver would surely have wreaked havoc in the
peloton.

Le Tour de LIVEDRUNK!

--
Ryan Cousineau http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos

wrote in message
ups.com...

I wonder, is there enough genuine clinical need for EPO to warrant
sales of three billion?


Since the Italian market for phony prescription Viagra is about 600 million
Euro, I'd say there is a genuine need.

On Sun, 27 May 2007 09:29:45 -0700, Fred Fredburger
wrote:

Excellent. Very much in keeping with the "Back in the old days when Men
were Men and cycling was clean and Ann Margret was a hot young cartoon
babysitter for the Flintstones" motif that seems to be all the rage in
RBR these days. I'm pretty sure the "Father Knows Best" reference missed
anyhow. This is a step towards both a more recognizable AND fictitious
delusion. It works.

Speak for yourself. I still have a pile of cardigan sweaters that I
had to give up when the wife said I couldn't smoke a pipe in the
house. Of course, that's a bit more 'My Three Sons' than 'Father Knows
Best', by a slim margin.

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...

Curtis L. Russell wrote:
On Sun, 27 May 2007 09:29:45 -0700, Fred Fredburger
wrote:

Excellent. Very much in keeping with the "Back in the old days when Men
were Men and cycling was clean and Ann Margret was a hot young cartoon
babysitter for the Flintstones" motif that seems to be all the rage in
RBR these days. I'm pretty sure the "Father Knows Best" reference missed
anyhow. This is a step towards both a more recognizable AND fictitious
delusion. It works.

Speak for yourself. I still have a pile of cardigan sweaters that I
had to give up when the wife said I couldn't smoke a pipe in the
house. Of course, that's a bit more 'My Three Sons' than 'Father Knows
Best', by a slim margin.

You're supposed to smoke TOBACCO in a pipe, not cardigan sweaters.
That's probably what your wife was objecting to.

On 26 mei, 20:02, Mike Owens wrote:
On May 26, 12:49 pm, Keith wrote:





Since the general conscensus is that you don't need to dope to win the
TDF...except if someone else is doping, the really interesting
question to me is WTF started taking EPO and when ?

Clearly the Gewiss team must have been on EPO as early as 94, Berzin,
Ugrumov and Riis attesting to that. Jalabert too given his superlative
1995 season and Once connection.

It might be easier to figure out who the first TDF winner on EPO was ?
Counting down from Riis in 1996 that would leave Indurain in 1995.
Dunno about EPO for him, let's remember what Echevarri said at the
time that "Indurain was disgusted to see what some guys were taking in
96".

Why focus on EPO, well it seems that prior to that the guys were
taking "mild" drugs to keep going and recuperate faster, and no
"inferior" rider could use that to challenge the strongest racers,
that changed with EPO.

Any ideas ?

Ideas only. One of two guys I liked a lot as they animated races -
Bugno or Chiapucci. I have no doubt that it started (small scale?)
soon after it got to market in 88ish.
-Mike
-Mike- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht niet weergeven -

- Tekst uit oorspronkelijk bericht weergeven -

Eddy Planckaert admitted winning Paris-Roubaix on EPO. You know,
against Bauer...