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A more reasonable way of EPO testing



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 27th 07, 08:53 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Caroline
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Posts: 53
Default A more reasonable way of EPO testing

The drug testing entities are driving themselves nuts. Why? Because every
time they think they have the lid on one thing, the lid pops off another.
EPOs, testosterone, HGH, caffeine.... Well, the list is too long to delve
into here, but the list of banned drugs is looooooooong. EPOs are the topic
at hand. Questions of who has used and who (if any) haven't. And the
testing is expensive and not always completely reliable.

Some of these items come into serious question when illnesses are involved.
There is no doubt in my mind that Lance Armstrong was given EPOs as part of
his chemotherapy recovery. It is a standard safeguard for saving the
patient's life. But I have no way of knowing whether he was given them when
he was in competition, nor do I have any way of knowing whether they gave
him any advantage if he was, or if they just brought his red cell count to
"within normal limits." Only his doctors know for sure. He may not even
know.

The point is that there are times when banned substances are required to
keep an athlete functioning normally. Cortisone *MAY* have been a
requirement to keep Landis' hip functioning during TDF.

For all of these drugs there are easy blood tests to show whether they are
in balance, or "within normal limits." Soooo.... Wouldn't it be so much
easier simply to collect pre-race blood samples from all the athletes and
have them analyzed for whatever may be outside normal limits? Simply
announce that if your blood does not meet "race standards" you will be
disqualified. Period. Then who cares if people take EPOs? If they take
enough to give them an unfair edge, they're out of the game!

And the testing is so much easier and cheaper.

Oh... A question was recently asked about what drugs are banned. If you
have any questions, you can call the IOC (or in the U.S. call USOC) Medical
Hotline and ask. They have a current list for everything from cough meds
that contain banned substances (and cough meds that don't) to blood doping
no-nos. (God, I hope this information isn't out-dated!)

Caroline


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  #2  
Old May 27th 07, 11:44 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Dan Gregory
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Posts: 793
Default A more reasonable way of EPO testing

Caroline wrote:


A question was recently asked about what drugs are banned. If you
have any questions, you can call the IOC (or in the U.S. call USOC) Medical
Hotline and ask. They have a current list for everything from cough meds
that contain banned substances (and cough meds that don't) to blood doping
no-nos. (God, I hope this information isn't out-dated!)



Quicker to go to

http://www.didglobal.com/page/didenqs/home


  #3  
Old May 29th 07, 12:07 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Tom Kunich
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Posts: 6,456
Default A more reasonable way of EPO testing

"Caroline" wrote in message
news:[email protected]

Some of these items come into serious question when illnesses are
involved. There is no doubt in my mind that Lance Armstrong was given EPOs
as part of his chemotherapy recovery. It is a standard safeguard for
saving the patient's life. But I have no way of knowing whether he was
given them when he was in competition, nor do I have any way of knowing
whether they gave him any advantage if he was, or if they just brought his
red cell count to "within normal limits." Only his doctors know for sure.
He may not even know.


Here's a clue - the phoney "blood test" that they supposedly ran in France
with Lance's blood that they claimed contained EPO showed a hematocrit of
38%.


  #4  
Old May 29th 07, 01:10 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Tom Grosman
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Posts: 51
Default A more reasonable way of EPO testing

"Tom Kunich" [email protected] com a écrit dans le message de news:
. net...
| "Caroline" wrote in message
| news:[email protected]
|
| Some of these items come into serious question when illnesses are
| involved. There is no doubt in my mind that Lance Armstrong was given
EPOs
| as part of his chemotherapy recovery. It is a standard safeguard for
| saving the patient's life. But I have no way of knowing whether he was
| given them when he was in competition, nor do I have any way of knowing
| whether they gave him any advantage if he was, or if they just brought
his
| red cell count to "within normal limits." Only his doctors know for
sure.
| He may not even know.
|
| Here's a clue - the phoney "blood test" that they supposedly ran in France
| with Lance's blood that they claimed contained EPO showed a hematocrit of
| 38%.
|
What "phoney "blood test" " are you referring to?


  #5  
Old May 29th 07, 03:05 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Curtis L. Russell
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Posts: 993
Default A more reasonable way of EPO testing

On Sun, 27 May 2007 19:53:04 GMT, "Caroline"
wrote:

For all of these drugs there are easy blood tests to show whether they are
in balance, or "within normal limits." Soooo.... Wouldn't it be so much
easier simply to collect pre-race blood samples from all the athletes and
have them analyzed for whatever may be outside normal limits? Simply
announce that if your blood does not meet "race standards" you will be
disqualified. Period. Then who cares if people take EPOs? If they take
enough to give them an unfair edge, they're out of the game!


For all of the drugs? Some of the tests take three days if the lab is
ready for them. Most take several hours at a minimum because the
machinery necessary to make all testing equal has to be set up first
(single assay testing in lots of over 100 isn't a great way to prep
for the later legal battles), followed by the actual testing. You'd
still be disqualifying people hours and days after the day's racing.

FWIW, it still won't be cheap - some test kits - if you do all the
drugs - will cost you in the hundreds for the kit alone, if done in
batches. That will be for one drug in some cases, per person...

Curtis L. Russell
Odenton, MD (USA)
Just someone on two wheels...
  #6  
Old May 29th 07, 06:02 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
[email protected]
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Posts: 657
Default A more reasonable way of EPO testing

On May 28, 7:07 pm, "Tom Kunich" [email protected] com wrote:
"Caroline" wrote in message

news:[email protected]



Some of these items come into serious question when illnesses are
involved. There is no doubt in my mind that Lance Armstrong was given EPOs
as part of his chemotherapy recovery. It is a standard safeguard for
saving the patient's life. But I have no way of knowing whether he was
given them when he was in competition, nor do I have any way of knowing
whether they gave him any advantage if he was, or if they just brought his
red cell count to "within normal limits." Only his doctors know for sure.
He may not even know.


Here's a clue - the phoney "blood test" that they supposedly ran in France
with Lance's blood that they claimed contained EPO showed a hematocrit of
38%.


dumbass,

you are confused and your argument based on your confusion just makes
you look stupid. the EPO test was on urine, there was never a blood
test as you claim.

  #7  
Old May 29th 07, 11:51 AM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Simon Brooke
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Posts: 4,493
Default A more reasonable way of EPO testing

in message [email protected], Caroline
') wrote:

For all of these drugs there are easy blood tests to show whether they
are in balance, or "within normal limits." Â*Soooo.... Â*Wouldn't it be so
much easier simply to collect pre-race blood samples from all the
athletes and have them analyzed for whatever may be outside normal
limits? Â*Simply announce that if your blood does not meet "race
standards" you will be disqualified. Â*Period. Â*Then who cares if people
take EPOs? Â*If they take enough to give them an unfair edge, they're out
of the game!


I instinctively dislike your idea, but it does have merits.

I dislike it because it might unfairly penalise people who through
perfectly natural accidents of genetics has parameters which are outside
your 'normal limits' - and, indeed, might penalise them even if their
genetic peculiarity were not 'performance enhancing'. Such a person might
never be able to compete, because it might be impossible to get their body
tuned within the 'normal limits' which had been defined.

However, it would have the great merit of not caring whether your enhanced
haematocrit was caused by physical apparatus (an altitude tent) or
chemical apparatus (EPO). I find those athletes who rail against 'drug
cheats' while using altitude tents nauseatingly hypocritical.

--
(Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

pSchroedinger's cat is blinkstrongNOT/strong/blink dead./p

  #8  
Old May 29th 07, 03:26 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
RonSonic
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Posts: 2,658
Default A more reasonable way of EPO testing

On Tue, 29 May 2007 11:51:14 +0100, Simon Brooke wrote:

in message [email protected], Caroline
') wrote:

For all of these drugs there are easy blood tests to show whether they
are in balance, or "within normal limits." *Soooo.... *Wouldn't it be so
much easier simply to collect pre-race blood samples from all the
athletes and have them analyzed for whatever may be outside normal
limits? *Simply announce that if your blood does not meet "race
standards" you will be disqualified. *Period. *Then who cares if people
take EPOs? *If they take enough to give them an unfair edge, they're out
of the game!


I instinctively dislike your idea, but it does have merits.

I dislike it because it might unfairly penalise people who through
perfectly natural accidents of genetics has parameters which are outside
your 'normal limits' - and, indeed, might penalise them even if their
genetic peculiarity were not 'performance enhancing'. Such a person might
never be able to compete, because it might be impossible to get their body
tuned within the 'normal limits' which had been defined.

However, it would have the great merit of not caring whether your enhanced
haematocrit was caused by physical apparatus (an altitude tent) or
chemical apparatus (EPO). I find those athletes who rail against 'drug
cheats' while using altitude tents nauseatingly hypocritical.


I just call them unable to live in the mountains.

Ron
  #9  
Old May 31st 07, 01:59 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Caroline
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 53
Default A more reasonable way of EPO testing


"Simon Brooke" wrote in message
...
in message [email protected], Caroline
') wrote:

For all of these drugs there are easy blood tests to show whether they
are in balance, or "within normal limits." Soooo.... Wouldn't it be so
much easier simply to collect pre-race blood samples from all the
athletes and have them analyzed for whatever may be outside normal
limits? Simply announce that if your blood does not meet "race
standards" you will be disqualified. Period. Then who cares if people
take EPOs? If they take enough to give them an unfair edge, they're out
of the game!


I instinctively dislike your idea, but it does have merits.

I dislike it because it might unfairly penalise people who through
perfectly natural accidents of genetics has parameters which are outside
your 'normal limits' - and, indeed, might penalise them even if their
genetic peculiarity were not 'performance enhancing'. Such a person might
never be able to compete, because it might be impossible to get their body
tuned within the 'normal limits' which had been defined.


And we all know there must be at least 250,000 cyclists world wide who fall
into this category, right? '-)

Seriously, if *any* control measures are to be placed successfully, there
must be ways for those who fall outside the norms to appeal. If someone can
document that they have a rare condition, an exception could be made.



However, it would have the great merit of not caring whether your enhanced
haematocrit was caused by physical apparatus (an altitude tent) or
chemical apparatus (EPO). I find those athletes who rail against 'drug
cheats' while using altitude tents nauseatingly hypocritical.


Well, not so much. You don't inject altitude tents into your body. But
maybe I'm unaware of the latest trends?

Caroline


  #10  
Old May 31st 07, 02:06 PM posted to rec.bicycles.racing
Sandy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 504
Default A more reasonable way of EPO testing

Dans le message de news:[email protected],
Caroline a réfléchi, et puis a déclaré :

Seriously, if *any* control measures are to be placed successfully,
there must be ways for those who fall outside the norms to appeal. If
someone can document that they have a rare condition, an exception
could be made.


Google "Santhi Soundarajan" and see how natural rare conditions are treated
by the IOC.

--
Sandy

Ce n'est pas que j'ai peur de la mort.
Je veux seulement ne pas être là
quand elle arrivera.


 




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